Amazon buyer account banned (strange case)

[adventmma]

Very strange case indeed. I sent (electronically) a couple of amazon giftcards to a friend, he set up his amazon account, and bought something. Got his order, and went to order something else, but then the account was placed on hold.

CS can't answer his questions, and all he gets are automated template replies from the so-called account specialist department about how he needs to have his bank contact them to verify the information.

The funny thing is there is nothing to verify, as he never provided any credit card number when he set up the account in the first place. He simply used the giftcard balance to buy his stuff. As he can't contact them directly, he even tried emailing and faxing over info of his own card, for them to add/verify... whatever. He keeps getting the same nonsense replies about verification, and in the meantime he can't access the account and $300 worth of giftcard balance on it.

I mean, I can always dispute the charges, as I am the original giftcard sender, and my cc company assured me that I'll get refunded, but is there a way to get around this b.s. and have them unfreeze this balance for use?

Thanks.

[MICKY H]

Amazon it would appear are questioning if the correct person is using this gift card of they are linking him to some old account. My suggestion would be enter a standard credit card details and sees what happens. I assume this is only a buying account.

[adventmma]

Originally Posted by MICKY H

Amazon it would appear are questioning if the correct person is using this gift card of they are linking him to some old account. My suggestion would be enter a standard credit card details and sees what happens. I assume this is only a buying account.

I don't know what you mean by "if the correct person is using the gift card". Whoever receives the card uses it as they please, unless the original giftcard sender reports those charges as fraudulent. But I'm the original giftcard sender, and my buyer account is in good status, and I'm not disputing the charges.

He has no way to enter his own credit card details, as they won't allow him to access his account. Then again, he doesn't have a card of his own. I had to set him up as an authorized user on one of my other cards, hoping he could just provide them with that cc and gain access to the account. But he has no way of reaching amazon either way.

[MICKY H]

As he cannot access the account, which you did not say originally, you just said hold. The account has been deleted for some reason, I would assume it has been linked to some buying account or selling account which amazon have had problems with in the past. You bought the gift cards from amazon through your amazon account? If so you contact amazon and tell them the problems.

[adventmma]

Thanks for the reply. I just spoke to him and got some additional info. I didn't know if it would be related, as here we are dealing with strictly buyer accounts, but it seems to make sense why this is happening. It's a case of account linking after all.

A month ago, for his niece's birthday I generated a vcc (from BofA) for him to buy a gift for her from amazon. It was only for $15; no big deal. I didn't care how he was going to use it. He now tells me that he set up an amazon account with it, ordered her a gift (using his own billing info, of course). I didn't even bother to check on that vcc, as I have many other vcc's to manage for my own use. Evidently, the card declined, and amazon crapped the account. This matter came up just now, as I started asking him for details about this case. It was after that that he had gone on to create another account.

He asked me to send him an amazon gift card for $300, which I did, and that's how he ran into this current problem where amazon is holding the giftcard balance. On the second amazon account, that is.

The original message he got from them was "We have taken this action because we found this account to be related to previously closed accounts. In addition, all open orders have been cancelled."

This guy is a relative, but I know my money is safe, as I can always dispute the charges and get my money back that way. Worse case scenario... I can always dock his pay. The thing is that he wasn't doing anything malicious to begin with.

But I mean, while we all know how schizophrenic amazon is, what am I missing here? Despite everything, what's up with amazon getting all crazy over someone actually using a giftcard that's actually already been paid for? I know for a fact that some people get amazon giftcards for their birthdays and then go on to use them; amazon doesn't make you add a credit card if you have a giftcard balance to spend.

What's strange is that he was able to successfully purchase one item with that giftcard. It's when he went to purchase something again, the account got crapped.

It doesn't help if I tell them that "yeah, I bought the giftcard, it's OK, let him use them". They won't discuss other accounts with me. He can't reach them directly. It's not the same as with seller accounts. CS doesn't have access to his account. They just take his complaint and relay it to the 'department', and all he gets is template replies in the end.

[MICKY H]

I would say there is more going than you realise or you are not telling us. Amazon only close seller accounts if they think a fraud is going happen or has happened in the past. Just think about it, there is a credit balance on the account what have amazon to loose, plenty, claiming non delivery of goods, returning different goods etc. They just don't want to be associated with the seller. Also $300 seems a lot to place on the account in the first place.

[adventmma]

Well, I've told you everything I was able to find out. Even went through his workstation; he works for me. In fact, all computers are monitored with keyloggers and screen capturing up to 2 past months for my own peace of mind. All accounts involved in this case were indeed buyer accounts. There are absolutely no seller accounts to speak of here. Trust me, this guy doesn't know anything about computers, let alone about amazon. In fact, that might actually explain his brute approach to buying. He is just a clicker kind of guy. Doesn't know crap about computers per se.

Well, my buyer account is still fine. And from his buyer account he didn't even initiate a return attempt for the first item he purchased. First item received fine, second item denied.

I don't know what else to say, but this is aspkin forums; I don't think we'd be doing ourselves a favor twisting the truth here, as I'm just looking to figure out what happened on the technical level.

[MICKY H]

People have access to more than one computer, library,internet cafe, home....

[GreenBean]

If the amazon system detects links to other accounts, and enough flags get raised, they act.

They linked your associate to one account using gift cards.

He turns around and makes another account within their system with gift cards AGAIN involved.

amazon will take defensive action at once.

They protect themselves.

[adventmma]

Originally Posted by MICKY H

People have access to more than one computer, library,internet cafe, home....

Be that as it may, these were strictly brand new buyer accounts. Why should they be affected even if used from 'blacklisted' computers at some library, cafe or whatever? If he used yet another PC to access those buyer accounts, he may have inadvertently crapped someone else's seller account for all we know.

If I'm missing something, then I may never know it. Otherwise, I don't really think it had to do with anything related to anybody's seller accounts. The only reasonable explanation that I have is this.

He asked for a $300 giftcard, and was going to place an order in that amount. But... the account had no cc added to it. From the business standpoint, amazon would lose if the buyer initiates an item replacement procedure, and the buyer ends up keeping both items without returning the first one. They'd have no cc to charge in case he doesn't return something.

I think this is indeed the case, because the account on hold message he got was basically out of tune with reality. It was a template message stating that he needed to have his bank contact amazon to verify the billing info. OK, but billing info of what payment method? There had been no cc added to the account in the first place.

If there had been a card added to the account in the first place, or if he had ordered something of a lower value (as he did at first), amazon probably wouldn't have freaked out.

[GreenBean]

Never underestimate what amazon does to protect itself.

[adventmma]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

If the amazon system detects links to other accounts, and enough flags get raised, they act.

They linked your associate to one account using gift cards.

He turns around and makes another account within their system with gift cards AGAIN involved.

That, he did. This reminds me of how long-time ebay sellers, after having had their account crapped, instinctively went and just tried to create another account.

But one can have several buyers accounts with amazon, no problem, so I'm leaning towards the idea that amazon didn't let the second purchase go through because it would have left the account with neither enough of a giftcard balance nor a cc left to protect against possible non-returns.

[MICKY H]

Amazon simply did not want to deal with the account and have kept the money, maybe to cover past losses with the same person. Where does this non return come from, as I understand amazon will only send a replacement/refund on receipt of the returned items.

[adventmma]

Originally Posted by MICKY H

Amazon simply did not want to deal with the account and have kept the money, maybe to cover past losses with the same person. Where does this non return come from, as I understand amazon will only send a replacement/refund on receipt of the returned items.

No, amazon will send out a replacement even before you've returned an item. They simply obligate you to return it on the pain of charging your card if you don't happen to return the item in time. Issuing refund is different; they will indeed wait until you return the item. So, no, there were no past losses to speak of. No return attempts have been made whatsoever. That's the point. I was speaking of a hypothetical return case that must've had amazon spooked. In essence, amazon simply decided to keep the money with no way to spend it or verify the billing info by adding a cc. This case really caught my attention, and while I've just initiated a dispute with my cc, I wanted to see if they'd give him a chance to add a cc and free up the balance. No dice. I even told him to email them and suggest that they refund the original giftcard sender (me). Still nothing. They have basically cut off all communication and offer no options. They are basically just sitting on $300 of someone's money because they can. So, covering losses, my ass. Covering 'hypothetical' losses is more like it. But as it stands now, looks like they've gained $300. There is a lesson to be learned here. Nothing illegal had been attempted. No policies broken. Whatever they 'fear' and how they go about to protect themselves against potential losses is their problem, but you can't just blatantly grab someone's money supposedly for "protection purposes". This is not a security deposit, you know...

This is not a problem for me, as I've already spoken with my cc company, and explained the situation. They'll get my expenses refunded, even against amazon's policy of giftcards being non-refundable. That's because no goods nor services were ultimately rendered for my expense.

It's just that the whole thing just raises an interesting point. Because even when we're dealing with stealth accounts, and we all try our best to get our hands on the remaining money. And even paypal has a policy sending you a check 6 months after the account closure.

This situation with amazon, however, is different in the sense that they have never once mentioned or reacted to the fact that they are holding $300 that's been legally paid for. And this original transaction happened on their own turf. All internally.

But what if someone had purchased an amazon giftcard (in plastic form) at a store, or received it as a birthday gift, got himself into this kind of mess, and can't get to the money either way?