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CryptoCurrency Discuss all CryptoCurrencies / coins and their use for personal or business purposes. Bitcoin (BTC) is possibly the best known but there are numerous crypto currencies, this is the forum to discuss them all.

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  #45  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatguyslim View Post
Hey Everyone, after reading a few comments on this thread I had to weigh in and let you all know that ALL UK faster payments (which is the most preferred and instant transaction) can be easily revered in case of a fraud. Chaps payment however do not get reversed once sent out and it is not the most commonly used way to send money.

You may ask how I know this well I have been selling bitcoins on LBC for over 3 years and have the biggest profile in the UK. Fraud and AML are the main reasons why we ask for an ID. Infact now we go as far as asking for source of funds and even do skype video chat to determine if the buyer is genuine or not. SO for those who think UK transfers cannot be reversed you clearly don't know what you are on about.

This is my profile and where you can message me to verify my authenticity etc. Feel free to send some of your clients over too if you want them to buy bitcoins lol.

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/fatguyslim

I have 3 people who work for me too so if I am not online my following team members will help you out

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...tguyslim.gary/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.david/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.logan/
Thank for educating the less informed.

If anyone is interested in purchasing Bitcoin via UK bank transfer, I can vouch for him, if his reputation isn't enough for you.
The complete step-by-step guide to get back to selling today!

  #46  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatguyslim View Post
Hey Everyone, after reading a few comments on this thread I had to weigh in and let you all know that ALL UK faster payments (which is the most preferred and instant transaction) can be easily revered in case of a fraud. Chaps payment however do not get reversed once sent out and it is not the most commonly used way to send money.

You may ask how I know this well I have been selling bitcoins on LBC for over 3 years and have the biggest profile in the UK. Fraud and AML are the main reasons why we ask for an ID. Infact now we go as far as asking for source of funds and even do skype video chat to determine if the buyer is genuine or not. SO for those who think UK transfers cannot be reversed you clearly don't know what you are on about.

This is my profile and where you can message me to verify my authenticity etc. Feel free to send some of your clients over too if you want them to buy bitcoins lol.

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/fatguyslim

I have 3 people who work for me too so if I am not online my following team members will help you out

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...tguyslim.gary/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.david/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.logan/
While further input is always welcome it may be worth reading all the posts. Its already been said a few times that in the case of fraud it can sometimes be reversed. Not always though as I am sure you are aware.

Its also not a 15 minute automatic process as implied. It takes days and weeks and even in the case of fraud a lot of the time it will not be reversed. How do I know? Because I have had a family member who was defrauded for 800 via bank transfer and no matter what we did it could not be reversed. A few of the other posters on the thread have very similar experiences. Banks have also put out statements saying that bank transfers cannot automatically be reversed (links being in the thread)

Its only in the case of unauthorized transfers that reversal % is high as mentioned earlier in the thread. In this day and age with the need for banking fobs before any transfer is made with a lot of banks unauthorized transfers claims are low.

You cannot just phone your bank and say 'I paid someone 100 for something and they didn't deliver it' and the bank will reverse the transfer. That is just not how it works. Its a very long process during which the recipient of the funds will be contacted. Even at the end of the investigation there is 0 guarantee that the funds will be returned even in the case of fraud

To claim, like it was earlier, that its very easy to automatically get a bank transferred reversed within 15 minutes is codswallop

Now if someone can provide proof other than 'trust me I know these things' that a bank transfer can be easily reversed (such as a statement from a well know money advise website, a news paper or a statement from a bank) that would be really interesting to read and would be very informative

On a side note, the main point of the thread was how to 'cash out bitcoin anonymously' for what ever reason someone may need to do that. I would suggest that bank transfer is not an option if you want to cash out anonymously due to the lack of anonymity when cashing out this way making the entire thing a bit moot really

Last edited by JamesNorth101; 01-15-2017 at 06:48 AM.
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by JamesNorth101 View Post
While further input is always welcome it may be worth reading all the posts. Its already been said a few times that in the case of fraud it can sometimes be reversed. Not always though as I am sure you are aware.

Its also not a 15 minute automatic process as implied. It takes days and weeks and even in the case of fraud a lot of the time it will not be reversed. How do I know? Because I have had a family member who was defrauded for 800 via bank transfer and no matter what we did it could not be reversed. A few of the other posters on the thread have very similar experiences. Banks have also put out statements saying that bank transfers cannot automatically be reversed (links being in the thread)

Its only in the case of unauthorized transfers that reversal % is high as mentioned earlier in the thread. In this day and age with the need for banking fobs before any transfer is made with a lot of banks unauthorized transfers claims are low.

You cannot just phone your bank and say 'I paid someone 100 for something and they didn't deliver it' and the bank will reverse the transfer. That is just not how it works. Its a very long process during which the recipient of the funds will be contacted. Even at the end of the investigation there is 0 guarantee that the funds will be returned even in the case of fraud

To claim, like it was earlier, that its very easy to automatically get a bank transferred reversed within 15 minutes is codswallop

Now if someone can provide proof other than 'trust me I know these things' that a bank transfer can be easily reversed (such as a statement from a well know money advise website, a news paper or a statement from a bank) that would be really interesting to read and would be very informative

On a side note, the main point of the thread was how to 'cash out bitcoin anonymously' for what ever reason someone may need to do that. I would suggest that bank transfer is not an option if you want to cash out anonymously due to the lack of anonymity when cashing out this way making the entire thing a bit moot really
You got too much free time mate. Just let it go lol.

UK bank transfers can be reversed, be cautious if you accept Bank transfers etc.

For the doubters in my thread requesting proof, you now have it.

Moving on....

Last edited by elmo; 01-15-2017 at 06:57 AM.
  #48  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

You know you don't need to quote people when its the message above right? RE having too much free time. 1 - I try to do my part to help keep the forum running as smoothly as possible so I am on here quite a lot and 2 - I am not the one up at 4am replying to forum posts Its midday here in the UK

What has been agreed on is in some very very rare cases some bank transfers can sometimes be reversed under very exceptional circumstances and even then its rare. I still have not seen any actual hard evidence for it from a credible source but common sense dictates that it should be possible under the right circumstances. Never in the time frame you had suggested and its not just automatic. Its also worth noting that if you want to cash out BitCoin anonymously then bank transfer is a none starter.

Great to have that all settled. Any other methods always welcome

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  #49  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Thank for educating the less informed.
Says the man that believed it would cost me 20% more to receive a BTC payment from him due to Brexit.

Suggest you get off your high horse before you fall off.
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  #50  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

I was just trying to save you money lol.

Y'all need to stop being so salty.
  #51  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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I was just trying to save you money lol.
And that's the funny bit. You still don't fully understand that what you were going on about wasn't saving me anything.
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Elmo, you are still wrong and still dont get the whole point.

When a bank receives a payment dispute, the funds get taken out of the receivers available balance and it goes into a 'reserve account' with the bank until both parties are contacted.
Once the investigation is complete, they send it back to the receiver or the sender.

The bank does NOT just return the money to the sender, they will ask the receiver if this was an error etc.. and if these Bitcoin folk choose to not dispute a reversal they they will obviously lose there money.

I had someone send me 2000 by mistake, they phoned there bank and the bank put the money in a reserve account. I could still see the funds in my pending balance but it was not available.
I phoned my bank and confirmed that it was not meant for me and the collections department somewhere reversed it a MONTH later... not 15 mins.

This payment was only reversed because i AGREED to it.

Can you imagine the amount of fraud and issues the banks would have if you could just reverse payments in 15 mins??
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  #53  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

You guys seem to be fixated on the 15 minute point I made.

Allow me to clarify and hopefully put an end to this back and forth

The reversal of a payment itself can happen at any point from the minute the payment is done, to several weeks or months later (which includes 15 minutes after payment). Now the time it takes for the person to receive their money back is something I didn't even talk about. So you are misunderstanding the point here.

Re-read pages 1-3 and you'll get the general gist that most UK sellers here think it's impossible to get a UK bank transfer reversed. I've been saying from page 1 that it's very possible and very common in the Bitcoin trading world where fraud is common to get UK bank transfers reversed, which is a fact backed by proof on page 3.

This isn't some complicated analytical debate, it's very simple. UK bank transfers are not bulletproof and they can be reversed. This has been my point since I first mentioned it on page 1. There is no need to keep debating it lol.
  #54  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by elmo View Post
You guys seem to be fixated on the 15 minute point I made.
Well... You did it say it?... In the very guide you wrote... and a guide is supposed to contain facts...and since that was far from a fact the credence of your entire guide is being questioned.
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  #55  
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Its also not a 15 minute automatic process as implied. It takes days and weeks and even in the case of fraud a lot of the time it will not be reversed. How do I know? Because I have had a family member who was defrauded for 800 via bank transfer and no matter what we did it could not be reversed. A few of the other posters on the thread have very similar experiences. Banks have also put out statements saying that bank transfers cannot automatically be reversed (links being in the thread)
There is no limit to when a bank transfer can be reversed. I have seen bank transfer reversed within an hour and I have also seen bank transfer reversed after 6 months. It all depends on what bank the buyer uses and also what bank the sender uses. Lots of variables

Quote:
Its only in the case of unauthorized transfers that reversal % is high as mentioned earlier in the thread. In this day and age with the need for banking fobs before any transfer is made with a lot of banks unauthorized transfers claims are low.
All fraud these days happen through social engineering and very rarely do the bank accounts get hacked. Some banks wont care what evidence you provide them they will still reverse the payment. Plus there are different kinds of fraud payments too which no matter what you give to any of the UK bank the payment will still get reversed.

Quote:
You cannot just phone your bank and say 'I paid someone 100 for something and they didn't deliver it' and the bank will reverse the transfer. That is just not how it works. Its a very long process during which the recipient of the funds will be contacted. Even at the end of the investigation there is 0 guarantee that the funds will be returned even in the case of fraud

To claim, like it was earlier, that its very easy to automatically get a bank transferred reversed within 15 minutes is codswallop
Depends on how well you can convince your bank that you are a victim of a fraud

Quote:
Now if someone can provide proof other than 'trust me I know these things' that a bank transfer can be easily reversed (such as a statement from a well know money advise website, a news paper or a statement from a bank) that would be really interesting to read and would be very informative
Don't have to give you a proof for this mate you will have to take my word for it iven I have done over 50k transactions. Payments do get reversed and if you don't have a proof of transaction it is very easy indeed

Quote:
On a side note, the main point of the thread was how to 'cash out bitcoin anonymously' for what ever reason someone may need to do that. I would suggest that bank transfer is not an option if you want to cash out anonymously due to the lack of anonymity when cashing out this way making the entire thing a bit moot really
Not all anonymous transactions are dodgy. Most of my large volume buyers are buying coins to gamble etc and don't want their other half to know what they are doing lol. I get a lot of these buyers so anonymity is not always dodgy that's all I can say.
  #56  
Old 01-15-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by fatguyslim View Post
Not all anonymous transactions are dodgy. Most of my large volume buyers are buying coins to gamble etc and don't want their other half to know what they are doing lol. I get a lot of these buyers so anonymity is not always dodgy that's all I can say.
I didn't say that they were. The point I was making is that the thread was meant to be to cater towards people who wanted to be able to cash out BTC anonymously for whatever reason. When you have to provide a lot of ID the method of withdrawing is no longer anonymous.

If you can point me in the directions of creditable articles or sources that demonstrates that a bank can easily reverse a bank transfer that would be a really interesting ready. So far everything I have ever read or come across in the form of official statements from banks or articles published from creditable sources has made it very very clear bank transfers are irreversible.

Having also talked to my business bank account manager at Halifax he has also stated that when a transaction leaves my bank account that I have authorized they cannot force it to be returned even if they wanted to. The only times it would be reversed is 1 - if it was made to the wrong account and the recipient of the money agreed for the funds to be returned 2 - there was an unauthorized used of my account. That fits in with all the articles that have been linked to within the thread.

If yourself or Elmo can provide a some sort of evidence that demonstrates that bank transfers can always be easily reversed as has been said in this thread I am just going to have to go with what all the creditable articles have said alongside what my bank manager has told me. If you want what you say to be taken as more than 'trust me I am experienced' then you would need to demonstrate credible empirical evidence. Until then its basically hearsay
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  #57  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by elmo View Post
I was just trying to save you money lol.

Y'all need to stop being so salty.
#Its definitely possible to reverse bank transfers.#
elmo, there I was thinking a certain member was being a bit too abrasive on you unnecessarily & I see these types of posts from you......not good man. What James & a few others are telling you, is infact correct.

How on earth did you descend into this level of falsehood ?

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  #58  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

If you re-read the thread from the start, you would see who was being aggressive from the start. I'm providing information from experience, research, and the biggest BTC trader in the UK. All of which supports what I have been saying from the start.

There is a bit of arrogance in this thread and close mindedness, but I think we have all decided that everyone has their own opinion on the matter.
  #59  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

UK banking regulations are what they are. Not much more to it really. You didnt provide a single creditble source other than a bitcoin forum

Elmo if you want to believe that a bank transfer can be reversed in 15 minutes at the drop of a hat despite banks themselves clearly saying that isn't possible then that's fine. Someone in a bitcoin forum says its possible so seems that is evidence enough.

As far as I can see one was being aggressive. UK based members were simply pointing out the inaccuracies of the premise of parts of the thread to prevent misinformation getting spread by citing bank statements, banking regulations and first had experience as a UK based trader. If you want to see that as being aggressive Elmo that is totally up to you

Threads like this are best just left for people to judge themselves. No point flogging the horse that died a long time ago
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  #60  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Agreed we should leave the topic alone as there are different opinions on the matter.

I don't consider it aggressive conversation to be honest, was just addressing SUVE

Everyone is open to have their opinion
  #61  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by Play View Post
Let's make this interesting. How about you send us a reasonable sum of money, then you can try your luck at reversing it. Of course if you fail, its ours to keep.

That ought to put this topic to rest.
My offer is still on the table by the way...
  #62  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

The issue throughout this thread is that you are confusing opinions with fact

The fact is that UK banking regulations do not allow bank transfers to be reversed within 15 minutes automatically.

It is an opinion that you choose to for reasons known best to you yourself believe what you read in a bitcoin forum over what banking regulations and banks themselves state.

Now where is that horse..... ah there it is
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  #63  
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

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Originally Posted by elmo View Post
If you re-read the thread from the start, you would see who was being aggressive from the start. I'm providing information from experience, research, and the biggest BTC trader in the UK. All of which supports what I have been saying from the start.

There is a bit of arrogance in this thread and close mindedness, but I think we have all decided that everyone has their own opinion on the matter.
I have not read ALL the thread from post to post and I am not sure I have the inclination to BUT I can see right away you are making the claim about 'reverse bank transfer' (OUTSIDE of the context James has provided right ?) and even I have to concede that you are infact (technically and legally by UK standards) incorrect about this.


The only reason I had sought to counter some of the onslaught you faced from certain quarters was due to the fact that I actually agreed with you on a certain post (i.e. US banks do not share info with Amazon due to legislation) and due to the fact that the person railing against you was really self righteous and belligerent in his style and his motivations/explanations were really nothing more than an ego stroke rather than for his claimed altruistic & benevolent motives (for randoms off the nets lol) which is nonsense as the net is filled with crap, he has the ability to filter that out without losing the plot but upon you, he continually got triggered .....

......but heck your other posts like this one over the reverse bank transfer.......do not reflect well on you my friend. They severely undermine you.

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Last edited by SUVE; 03-16-2017 at 07:35 PM.
  #64  
Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

I'm not sure what you are going about mate

My opinion is bank transfers can be reversed due to fraud, instantly, within 15 minutes, days later, the time frame doesn't matter. Any serious BTC trader on LocalBitcoins will tell you this is a fact and its a common occurrence with traders that accept UK bank transfer for Bitcoin.

Others in this thread do not believe this, and their opinion remains that its impossible for bank transfers to get reversed, thus the back and forth began. So I figured I would get the largest BTC trader in the UK to share his opinion on the matter, which supports what I have been saying this entire time (his post is on page 2 and 3).

Anyone can form their own opinion - I only brought the evidence I have to the table, which in my opinion outweighs the evidence others have brought to the table.

Nonetheless, everyone is open to their own opinion.
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Old 03-16-2017
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmo View Post
I'm not sure what you are going about mate

My opinion is bank transfers can be reversed due to fraud, instantly, within 15 minutes, days later, the time frame doesn't matter. Any serious BTC trader on LocalBitcoins will tell you this is a fact and its a common occurrence with traders that accept UK bank transfer for Bitcoin.

Others in this thread do not believe this, and their opinion remains that its impossible for bank transfers to get reversed, thus the back and forth began. So I figured I would get the largest BTC trader in the UK to share his opinion on the matter, which supports what I have been saying this entire time (his post is on page 2 and 3).

Anyone can form their own opinion - I only brought the evidence I have to the table, which in my opinion outweighs the evidence others have brought to the table.

Nonetheless, everyone is open to their own opinion.
That IS different to what was being claimed & the juxtapositioning of the BTC trader thing along to it but.....you know, I will remove myself from this thread/discussion on this basis (as I have more important stuff to do in life):

Threads like this are best just left for people to judge themselves. No point flogging the horse that died a long time ago.


Others are welcome to continually engage with you about this if they so wish.


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  #66  
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Default Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously

Yeah I'm still not understanding your point of view, but lets chuck it to a misunderstanding

-- I agree this conversation is going no where, we should all move on
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