Apple is going to sue me!!!

walkingupwards · #45 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by dachilla

dude, this smells fishy as f#ck. Do not give out any info. Do not Call him or send him any letters. No German laywer would act like this. U sure this guy is even a lawyer? I'd doubt it very much. Again... send me a PM, maybe I can help. We can even talk in German.

He is indeed a lawyer and works for a big and respected German law firm.

oompaloompa · #46 11-16-2017

You are on a stealth forum, peoples details are mis-used all the time....people register in random details from the phone book - They needed YOU to confirm all this info was indeed correct, and next step is to get your supplier info.

walkingupwards · #47 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

You are on a stealth forum, peoples details are mis-used all the time....people register in random details from the phone book - They needed YOU to confirm all this info was indeed correct, and next step is to get your supplier info.

O.k so now if they don't get the invoices, do you think they will go to court and force me to hand them over?

Lucynda · #48 11-16-2017

I highly doubt Apple is going to force you into court and pay expensive legal fees and filing fees and all that crap over a few cables. I think the guy is blowing smoke just trying to get your supplier info so they can go after a bigger fish and are trying to use scare tactics to do so. The best advice would be to consult with your own attorney but don't contact them further until you do.

rsot · #49 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

O.k so now if they don't get the invoices, do you think they will go to court and force me to hand them over?

walkingupwards · #50 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsot

Bro, I am not really in mood to analyse what you mean by that

What do you think they'll do?

rsot · #51 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Bro, I am not really in mood to analyse what you mean by that

What do you think they'll do?

You have a TON of input from ppl on this thread - hell, you get more responses as a new person with this kind of issue than my own new posts hah. With all this input, you should be able to make a wise decision and decide on further action on your part.

ebaystealth1974 · #52 11-16-2017

You're definitely in a mood to analyze, though... because you're over-analyzing the hell out of your situation!

dachilla · #53 11-16-2017

Reached my PM limit for today and can't answer you anymore. One more thing: if you are really going provide the lawyer with the supplier info, make sure that you get something in writing that he will refrain from any further actions against you. Tomorrow is Friday, you still have a few days. Try to find a local lawyer that can help you out there or even call up the apple lawyer to find an agreement. Probably not the best idea to solve this all on your own.

walkingupwards · #54 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by dachilla

Reached my PM limit for today and can't answer you anymore. One more thing: if you are really going provide the lawyer with the supplier info, make sure that you get something in writing that he will refrain from any further actions against you. Tomorrow is Friday, you still have a few days. Try to find a local lawyer that can help you out there or even call up the apple lawyer to find an agreement. Probably not the best idea to solve this all on your own.

He made it clear in his first e-mail that he can't provide such a promise on behalf of Apple. Here is his first e-mail to me:

Quote:

ich komme auf unsere Telefonate von soeben zurück. Wie ich Ihnen mitteilte, vertrete ich die Apple Inc. im Hinblick auf die von Ihnen auf eBay angebotenen Artikel, die aufgrund der Meldung meiner Mandantin (bzw. MarkMonitor) von eBay gesperrt wurden. Wie ich Ihnen ebenfalls mitteilte, kommt es für die Frage, ob weitere rechtliche Maßnahmen im Hinblick auf das Anbieten und Vertreiben rechtsverletzender Produkte eingeleitet werden, insbesondere auch darauf an, ob sich der Verkäufer kooperativ verhält und zur weiteren Aufklärung der Angelegenheit beiträgt. Insofern hatte ich Sie gebeten, mir Einkaufsrechnungen für die von eBay gesperrten Produkte zukommen zu lassen. Ohne hier einen Rechtsverzicht aussprechen zu können, gehe ich davon aus, dass meine Mandantin unter diesen Umständen (und sofern es nicht zu weiteren Verletzungen kommt) von der weiteren Verfolgung dieser Angelegenheit gegen Sie Abstand nehmen wird.

dachilla · #55 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucynda

I highly doubt Apple is going to force you into court and pay expensive legal fees and filing fees and all that crap over a few cables.

Wrong. If OP sold the cables without apples permission he would have to come up with the legal fees for apple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucynda

trying to get your supplier info so they can go after a bigger fish

Of course, but that doesn't mean they won't take action against OP if he doesn't comply and give them the info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucynda

The best advice would be to consult with your own attorney but don't contact them further until you do.

Exactly.

oompaloompa · #56 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by dachilla

Reached my PM limit for today and can't answer you anymore. One more thing: if you are really going provide the lawyer with the supplier info, make sure that you get something in writing that he will refrain from any further actions against you. Tomorrow is Friday, you still have a few days. Try to find a local lawyer that can help you out there or even call up the apple lawyer to find an agreement. Probably not the best idea to solve this all on your own.

NO!!! Do not tell OP to contact or supply invoices!!!
By all means get a lawyer, but really there is no need unless you are actually getting sued, and you will receive papers in the post for that.
OP has already told them too much. The lesson is, if someone calls you, you do not even confirm your name until you know who it is and what they want first....then you can opt for a/deny all knowledge of account, b/deny you are named person or c/hang up d/Pretend you are a certified lunatic and howl at the moon........

dachilla · #57 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

He made it clear in his first e-mail that he can't provide such a promise on behalf of Apple. Here is his first e-mail to me:

Reading it in German makes it way better to understand.

"Ohne hier einen Rechtsverzicht aussprechen zu können, gehe ich davon aus, dass meine Mandantin unter diesen Umständen"

This reads like: I can't promise that they won't sue your ass, but I am pretty darn sure they won't sue your ass if you cooperate.

So now my advise would be: cooperate, don't offer their **** anymore (at least not under your name), study Stealth Book for further ventures, and you'll most likely never hear from them again.

dachilla · #58 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

NO!!! Do not tell OP to contact or supply invoices!!!
By all means get a lawyer, but really there is no need unless you are actually getting sued, and you will receive papers in the post for that.
OP has already told them too much. The lesson is, if someone calls you, you do not even confirm your name until you know who it is and what they want first....then you can opt for a/deny all knowledge,b/ deny you are named person or c/hang up........

They already got all the info they need, all I am doing is damage limitation. If he gets a cease and desist letter, he'll have to put out the supplier info anyway.

Also I meant, he should find a lawyer who calls up the apple lawyer, by no means I want him to call

walkingupwards · #59 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by dachilla

Reading it in German makes it way better to understand.

"Ohne hier einen Rechtsverzicht aussprechen zu können, gehe ich davon aus, dass meine Mandantin unter diesen Umständen"

This reads like: I can't promise that they won't sue your ass, but I am pretty darn sure they won't sue your ass if you cooperate.

So now my advise would be: cooperate, don't offer their **** anymore (at least not under your name), study Stealth Book for further ventures, and you'll most likely never hear from them again.

Do you think they will accept the supplier info without the invoices?

They won't sue, but the the lawyer could make a few thousands from sending the "Abmahnung"

dachilla · #60 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Do you think they will accept the supplier info without the invoices?
:

Not sure you'll have to ask, or better: GET A LAWYER, who can ask on your behalf.

oompaloompa · #61 11-16-2017

Well I agree they got all the info they need, however the legalities may be different, they may need it in writing for example, unless taping a phone call is admissible in Germany for these types of cases, plus it is not really proper proof - so in which case, why would a lawyer that phones up apple lawyer be better? How does it limit damage?

If OP lawyers-up, the OPs lawyer has to verify their identity for their own purposes and a paper trail is created.....how does that limit damage versus just a phone call so far and no admissions in writing or registered letters so far....

Did they call your landline or mobile/cell btw?

dachilla · #62 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

Well I agree they got all the info they need, however the legalities may be different, they may need it in writing for example - so in which case, why would a lawyer that phones up apple lawyer be better? How does it limit damage?

Hard to answer that. Really I can't say, however as a German and as a lawyer I know it's the best way to play it here. An understanding between "colleagues" is almost like it's written in stone - at least when it comes to german lawyers.

Your ideas on the other hand don't limit the damage and are very much suitable for making the situation worse for OP. Ebay has records of the stuff offered on their website, do you think it magically disappears when the listing is taken down and you can just deny everything? The account is in his name, its his bank account attached. If it was a stealth account, I'd of course say go for it, deny any involvement. Even at this stage.

walkingupwards · #63 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

Well I agree they got all the info they need, however the legalities may be different, they may need it in writing for example, unless taping a phone call is admissible in Germany for these types of cases, plus it is not really proper proof - so in which case, why would a lawyer that phones up apple lawyer be better? How does it limit damage?

If someone lawyers-up, the persons lawyer has to verify your identity for their own purposes and a paper trail is created.....how does that limit damage versus just a phone call.....

Did they call your landline or mobile/cell btw?

Mobile phone, which they got from Ebay. There is no paper trail at all.

Only 3 e-mails (the e-mail used I used does not reflect my name, it is something like micky.mouse@hotmail.com - however, in the 2nd e-mail I sent, there was a signature at the end of the e-mail with my name).

walkingupwards · #64 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by dachilla

Hard to answer that. Really I can't say, however as a German and as a lawyer I know it's the best way to play it here. An understanding between "colleagues" is almost like it's written in stone - at least when it comes to german lawyers.

Your ideas on the other hand don't limit the damage and are very much suitable for making the situation worse for OP. Ebay has records of the stuff offered on their website, do you think it magically disappears when the listing is taken down and you can just deny everything? The account is in his name, its his bank account attached. If it was a stealth account, I'd of course say go for it, deny any involvement. Even at this stage.

I think in case of me receiving a cease and desist letter, I will just send them the modified "Unterlassungserklärung" (by a lawyer) and that's it. I won't pay anything until they go to court over the "Abmahnung" costs (which I highly doubt they will do).

walkingupwards · #65 11-16-2017

Sorry man, but I ran out of private messages for today. No the account was not a stealth account, I have never been banned from Ebay and thus have not thought about creating a stealth account before.

Also, I don't think it is easy to create a stealth account in Germany. You need to send a "Meldebescheinigung, Gewerbeschein, Pass-Kopie) and link a German bank account to your Ebay account. And one you cross the 17,000 € threshold, your revenue will be reported to the Finanzamt.

dachilla · #66 11-16-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

I think in case of me receiving a cease and desist letter, I will just send them the modified "Unterlassungserklärung" (by a lawyer) and that's it. I won't pay anything until they go to court over the "Abmahnung" costs (which I highly doubt they will do).

That's exactly what I would do.