Forum

Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

I sold generic iPhone charging cables (bought from China) and the problem is I used "Apple" in the title of my listing. The listing got reported by Markmonitor and got pulled down eventually. All of this happend in Sep/2017.

I contacted Markmonitor and asked why they reported the listing, got the usual response and then I did a very f***ed up mistake: I asked for the information of their legal representative in Germany.

2 days ago I got called by their lawyer in Germany and he was kinda nice on the phone, explained why the listing got pulled down and asked me to send him the invoices I got from my supplier. He told me that if I am cooperative I don't have to worry about a lawsuit from Apple because he will tell Apple that I was cooperative with him and as I am in Germany, he suspects nothing would come out of this.

After our phone call we contacted each other through e-mail. This is the e-mail I got from him today:


Dear Mr. XXX,

As I told you on the phone yesterday Apple asked me to take care of this matter now. There is no need to contact MarkMonitor as it is not their decision how to now proceed. I believe I explained to you yesterday your options how to resolve this matter hopefully in an amicable way. But getting back to MarkMonitor will not change anything.

Finally, I believe I explained sufficient clear in our call yesterday and in my subsequent email that we expect as a sign of cooperation that you provide us with your suppliers' invoices. If I do not hear back from you in this respect by next Tuesday, I will advise my client to now pursue further legal actions.

Best regards




I am afraid that if I send him the invoices he would be able to build a case against me and the invoices will be the 1st step in doing that!!

I contacted a lawyer few weeks ago and asked him what to do in case I receive a "Cease and dissest letter", I asked in the form of what he would do in such a case and his reply was:

If it were me I would not pay anything upon receiving such a letter, let Apple sue for the money first. They do that very seldomly



What do you think I should do? Should I send him the invoices or should I ignore him?

Do you think this a scaring tactic to get the invoices or are the threats legit?



P.S: I sold the cables on Ebay.de as I live in Germany.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Other guys can chime in, I dont have any experiences with apple products...but I got one thing to say......

furk lawyers. They use the "sue" route to intimidate people. Very rarely do they sue. I was 18 and got some company/lawyer sent a letter demanding I pay 100k or they will take me to court. where the hell is anyone going to have 100k just laying around? they are all BS.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Welcome to the forums - all the best as you master stealth :thumb:

You have given them WAY TOO MUCH info about yourself....phone, e-mail, etc.

You should have come here FIRST before doing all this.

The forum does not exist to give legal advice - go get counsel.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Sounds like the letter I got from Johnson and Pham......

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

They already had all my information the moment they reported my listing on Ebay.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Problem is that OP has already been contacting back and forth with a legal rep...providing e-mail, phone number, and maybe even address...

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Does the apple representative have any legit information like your legal name, business, address, email address, registered number, etc?

How much were you able to sell and/or receive in payments?

Do you block your internet connection efficiently even when sending and receiving emails?

Personally, I wouldn't give up anything. Even if they had my legal information like the lawyer said they'll have to sew me first. Additionally just reading the tone of the Assle Rep... Sorry Apple Rep, he's clearly fishing for your information, he's getting impatient and he isn't playing nice. Furthermore he's getting paid by apple to deal with guys like you, so why would he not turn you in. But I will say this, if it's a few thousand dollars of sales it wold be really petty of apple to waste there time and money chasing it, they would much rather track down the big guys flipping larger amounts and quantities.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Seriously, you need to contact a Lawyer....This forum can only give you some sketchy answers at best. If you used your real information they can sue you and most likely win. So again, contact a lawyer in Germany immediately.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Stoppen Sie jeglichen Kontakt mit der Firma... Sie müssen dies mit einem Anwalt besprechen... Das Forum ist nicht in der Lage zu helfen. Suchen Sie schnell Hilfe...

Stop all contact with the company... You need to discuss this with a lawyer... The Forum is not in a position to help. Seek help quickly...

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

1. In general never give documents, or any information to a lawyer, who does not work for you.

2.I imagine Apple has bigger "fish to fry" than someone who sold a few sketchy cables.If you were a serious problem to Apple, they would have had your account taken down, or filed an injunction.

3.If they were going to sue you, they would just do it. Also, your "supplier invoices" would be something they could obtain during discovery.


Basically, the guy is hoping to get more information out of you without the trouble of filing a lawsuit.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

I got a cease and desist letter for running a website that had apples in the name. i just put up a note at the bottom saying we weren't associated with the Apple electronics company. it's their job to threaten as many people as possible, and they'll only sue you if it'll make them money or you are a threat to their business. It seems like they just want the big fish to take down the factory in China.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

I sadly already did :-( I think I am gonna call this lawyer from a private number and give him the name of the supplier and say that's it. You got what you want, now I am not gonna answer you anymore.

What do you think guys?

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Is the lawyer who sent you the email also German? Because that's not very good English...

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Yes he is. He was kinda nice on the phone and in his last e-mail he claims that he explained to me how I can solve this matter hopefully in an amicable way. The thing is I am afraid of sending him the invoices because they could eventually serve as evidence against me.

I am thinking about sending him an anonymous SMS with the supplier info (e-mail,phone and address) and saying we are done now.


I suspect that the main reason he contacted me is because I wrote to Markmonitor and asked about their legal representative in Germany! I know that was more than stupid, but at first I thought a rival seller submitted a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ Vero takedown and I was communicating with a spoofed e-mail address.


The German lawyer talked to me on the phone for almost 20 minutes and has not sent me any paper mail even though he has my address.

I contacted a German lawyer a while ago (when the listing got pulled down) and asked him what he would do if he were me and he said the following:

"I would not send Apple a preemptive cease and dissest letter, and even if they sent me one I would not pay anything. Let Apple first sue for the money, they do that very seldomley"


Now I am stuck between 2 ideas, the first is sending this damn lawyer my supplier info (anonymously) and the 2nd idea is to just ignore him. :noidea:

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

"If I do not hear back from you in this respect by next Tuesday, I will advise my client to now pursue further legal actions."

Sounds like he's just trying to scare you by saying he will recommend to Apple that they pursue legal action. Doesn't mean Apple will take that advice and spend all of the money required to sue you.

Frankly, I just wouldn't respond anymore. Official legal correspondence isn't sent via email. At least not here in USA.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Let me get this straight you are juggling ideas from either a LAWYER who went to school for this type of thing and your own idea? Are you kidding me? Listen to your lawyer, cease all contact.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Exactly. They aren't gonna sue some small-time seller.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

He told me that he should report back to Apple and advice, he would say that I was cooperative and gave my supplier info. He says exactly this in his first e-mail:

"I don't have the right to waive the legal pursuit, but I would like to think that my client (Apple) in case you have cooperated will not pursuit further legal action".

I am thinking about sending him an anonymous SMS with the supplier info without mentioning my name in it. What do you think?

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Well maybe they want to make example.

How are they going to prove that they are not apple products? Hence why they want those supplier invoices. Don't give them all the ammunition. You have provided and done way too much already

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

I am not the who provided them with anything. When Markmonitor reported m listing through the Vero program, Ebay gave them my phone number, e-mail address, and my physical address as well.


The good thing is they have not bought any cables from me so they are not in possession of a sample from my inventory.

I think a party that intends to sue you will not first call you, be nice and give you 7 weeks until you provide them with the info they want. If they were to sue, they would have filed a lawsuit from the beginning, why go through all this hustle!!!

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

If OP is being truthful there's not really any way Apple could make an example out of him like they did with Mobile Star last year. OP says he wasn't even selling phake Apple stuff, he just used the trademarked word "Apple" in a listing title. I don't see how anyone could extrapolate an accurate dollar amount for how much OP has costed Apple by using the term "Apple" in a listing title for a generic cable.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

An attorney gave you advice.

TAKE IT!

Don't let them frighten you into doing something ELSE stupid.

Cease all communications and if you do get a suit then do what you have to do.

Seriously, who the heck is going to sue you over a few cables? There's no money in it and no deterrence in your case either.

They know bloody well who is building those cables, they don't need you to tell them.

It isn't illegal to build OR sell Apple compatible hardware.

You're going to need a thicker skin and stronger nerves to be in this business than you're showing here. :)

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

What'd they do to them?

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

When I talked to this German lawyer on the phone, I asked him if Apple is going to sue me or not. He was like, I can't talk for them or make decisions on their behalf, but I should get back to them soon and if I say that you have been cooperative I think they will not take further actions.

What is calming for me is that they have not bought any of my cables, so how would they prove it in court that the cables are not original? I told that to their lawyer and he told me that he has printed the negative feedbacks I got on Ebay. I had roughly 2000 feedbacks on ebay.de, 8 out of 2000 are negative and state that the cables are not original, around 1990 feedbacks are positive and 60 of these say exactly the following:

"Product exactly as described"


So if they want to use the feedbacks in court as an evidence that the cables were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then I could counter that by saying there are more positive feedbacks confirming the cables were authentic!


As I asked the lawyer how does he know the cables I sold were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, he said:

"Original cables could never be sold for such a low price and they always come the packaging"

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Thanks a lot for the precious advice.


You know I was roaming the internet the other day and a wise old man on YouTube said:

"Out of stress, you should come stronger"

I believe this whole mess has and will be played to my favor. I have not experienced how to deal with threats from lawyers before and there is always a first time for everything.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Your first mistake was to even respond to Markmonitor at all. They are a sham IP protection service used by 3rd parties.

Markmonitor and others like them can go pound sand. At the same time, it's not this forums focus to dispense legal advise. In the future it's best to seek the advise of a lawyer BEFORE contacting anyone accusing you of anything. Ignoring it may make it go away, OR not.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

You said you contacted a lawyer and he said:

If it were me I would not pay anything upon receiving such a letter, let Apple sue for the money first. They do that very seldomly



Now you're saying he said something else.

AND you never said you sold 2000!!!! cords. Or, 2000 feedback which means maybe as many as 10-20K cords!!!

You're not just a guy who sold a few cords, you've gone wayyyy over the top.

Stop asking us what to do and HIRE AN ATTORNEY!!!

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Ah the truths keep coming out - 2000...wow

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Be careful with these lawyers. They will try to get every dime out of you by using fear tactics. That's not saying you shouldn't take advice from lawyers but it's easy to tell if they being deceitful. You should cease operations If you're afraid to continue but I'm 101% sure Apple will not go after you. I don't want to talk too much about my past but back in 2012 I did something similar except it involved cases and my lawyer sucked my wallet dry. Apple ended up not going after me.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Sounds like he is lubing you up with what he wants but he isnt saying he can deliver on his part. He talks in uncertainties as to getting you outta trouble. He makes it sound like this SHOULD get you out of trouble, but he never says it WILL get you out of trouble.

Sounds f'ed up to me, and at the end of the day you are just handing him over evidence against you.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Apple has no interest in you - they want the invoices to go after the manufacturer in China !

I wouldn't do anything.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Sorry, I had a busy afternoon yesterday.

Apple sued them for a ton of money.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...gh-amazon.html

They first tried to go after AZ since the products were being sold there. Amazon immediately handed over all the seller's info along with their FBA stock.

Dude above me is right, IMO. Bigger fish to fry. The focus is the supply chain.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Here is a quote from the article about Mobile Star:



Apple itself bought some of Mobile Star's products before launching a lawsuit. In my case they have not bought anything from me.

How would they take me to court and argue about the authenticity of something that is not present in court?!!!

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Oh, wow. They were actually trying to pass of phakes as the real deal?! Phuck that!

Back when I was selling 10s of 1000s of them, I made sure people knew they were generics lol

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

durrrrr....

OP send me a PM in German if you want

To help you out, I need to know the following:

What happened, what did apple or their representatives send to you, how long do you have to comply?

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

If they haven't done multiple test buys to prove your stuff is phake (e.g. they would point out identical serial #'s), they aren't going to sue you.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Exactly. Phuckem...

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

How do you know they did not purchase from you? they will not put their buyer details as Mr I P Monitor, will they... If your return name and address on package is in real details, that is a bit more difficult to deny...

My experience with lawyers (not for IP issues) is they make a mountain out of a molehill to get you to pay up for a simple matter that you can handle yourself....

Watch out for any registered letters, and do not sign for them at your door. Do not give them any invoices either....

It is too late now, but you should not have replied. If you were to reply, it would only to be to say you are stealth and those are pha ke details, and tell them to 'go take a stroll down the middle of the freeway'.

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

Well if they have bought anything from me and been planning on suing, they would not ask their lawyer to call me and act nice on the phone, explain how could we could hopefully solve this in an amicable way!! They would have filed a lawsuit directly or at least sent a cease and dissest letter at least.

I am 1000% sure they have not bought anything from me, when I asked the lawyer how he knew the cables were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, he replied:

"You have a few negative feedbacks saying they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗"

And that's it.



I am now considering sending this lawyer my supplier info, but using an anonymous e-mail service to do so. This way he will have the info he is after without being able to connect it directly to me.

What do you think guys?

Re: Apple is going to sue me!!!
 

The 'info he is after' might be the confession that you have a non-auth supplier....?

did you think of that? ^^^^^^^^^

How is your china supplier of any use to them anyway........there are a ton of anon suppliers and they cannot do anything to chinese as it is all semi-legal out there and non-enforceable in any case.....

so again, why are you letting them build a case against YOU?