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  #1  
Old 12-05-2019
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Default The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

I know that there have been an obnoxious number of false "the end" threads, and it's not completely the end but it looks like it could be the end of having large USA stealth accounts.

I got into eBay Stealth accounts because it was supposedly just as good as using non-stealth accounts except you could have backups.

All of a sudden it seems like this is no longer true and this completely changes the game for anyone who wants to do millions in revenue on USA stealth accounts.

Recently PayPal has asked for Beneficial Owner information on my 2 biggest accounts (LLC/EIN accounts I have been using for years). One gave me about 4 day's notice before completely suspending my ability to accept payments and withdraw money. I got some creative documents professionally made for exactly what they asked for and the day after uploading them the PayPal account was banned. After calling once they are completely unwilling to consider reinstatement at all or even go into specifics because they have already discontinued their relationship with me.

I thought I was safe but now suddenly I have to think about everything differently. After reading some threads about this issue it seems that even EIN accounts can now no longer sell over $20,000 per year each or this will inevitably happen. I realize that eBay's managed payments seem to be what will save us- but if this really is a KYC law then they will eventually just require the same thing.

If this is the true limit to try to stay under there are a few issues...

#1 I have had single listings that gross over $20,000 per year so I would have to increase the price if it's selling too fast in order to intentionally throttle sales. I would also have to only have this one single listing on the account so upselling and getting customers to buy multiple different items would not be possible.

#2 To have a 1 million dollar revenue business you would need a minimum of 50 LLCs assuming you can somehow perfectly max them all out. This is doable but would be a massive headache and could end up costing a significant percentage of sales. Balancing listings across a ridiculous number of accounts and filing monthly taxes may be the new activities that take up the majority of our time.

Really the only way that I can see a single large stealth entity being able to rely on eBay anymore is if they were so big that nobody owned 25% of the company and there was a CEO in charge who had never before had an eBay account.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone thinks I am overreacting thank god, please tell me how to bypass this. Even temporarily eBay is not inviting me to managed payments and my best goldmine listing with $50,000+ in revenue is going to be removed in January when I am no longer able to accept paypal for it.

By uploading my creative documents on the first account it got instantly banned- but I had no choice because it was already fully limited at that point anyway.

I have heard that some people just ignore the request, so that is my current plan but I am not very confident in it.

In the mean time I am making a lot more accounts (to throttle at $20k) and trying to learn how to make a successful shopify store because I have seriously lost faith in the viability of successful big stealth accounts.

----------------------------------------------------------------

However...

There is one possible solution which I have considered and would like to get some opinions on. I sell on eBay US but ship internationally and cross post to eBay UK. Could I register an account in a country where they don't have KYC laws and cross-post to eBay USA accepting payments in a foreign currency but then still ship to US customers from the US and have a ridiculous shipping fee for domestic within my registered country?
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Is this happening on only LLC EIN accounts? Or is it happening to corporations as well (S corp or C corp)?

I haven't seen this yet.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2019
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Default

Chinese sellers dropship from California.
They accept US dollars.

if you are doing million dollars sales per year,why cant you set up a corporation?appoint yourself as CEO,and get a paycheck each month,you would report your salary in your tax return,you can make your salary so large that the corporation barely show a profit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emporium View Post
Sure, but the CEO's name would be linked to the account. So if you wanted to play it safe you would have to name someone else as the CEO and give up 75.1% ownership in the company then trust the CEO to funnel all profits into your paycheck.

It works in theory but there isn't really anything stopping that CEO from doing whatever he wants with the money. I guess if you somehow got a well worded contract this is an option.
It is my understanding name of CEO is not relevant,what matter is the corporation,
Ceos come and go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBeast7 View Post
please explain why your Paypal got banned?
OP submitted forged documents.

if you want to post something about me,at least geT this right,I am a SHE,not a HE/
Ebay sellers on disability have been fighting Paypal but no deal,they all have to give their SSN or they cant use Paypal,nothing new here !

you wanna know why I am here ?
Taking a course called Eco 101!
It is obvious,human nature is such,making money is priority number one,thats why people want to sell after they are banned ,and why is inflation so low,because these folks are selling for peanuts,traditional retail markup is 100%,jewelry was 300%,now all these are out of the window,how can traditional retailers with fixed overhead stay in business and support a family?
Same goes with AIRBNB,Lyft,UBER?
Taxi drivers,retailers,hoteliers will soon all be dining in the soup kitchen

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee View Post
He has zero. He doesnt even hardly
sell anything. Nobody knows why he is here but he obviously has a lot of extra time on his hands and nothing else to do with his time.
how do you know I Dont sell anything?
If I sell nothing,how did I get my Paypal fundnow account?
I have been selling since 1990s

No,sex does not come into eco 101-supply and demand.
selling millions dollars worth of goods and still have not retired,thats ECO101

Last edited by TGMT²; 01-06-2020 at 02:57 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by nodeal View Post
Is this happening on only LLC EIN accounts? Or is it happening to corporations as well (S corp or C corp)?

I haven't seen this yet.
I have only used LLCs with eBay but I see no reason why they would limit to only LLCs
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

We have gotten them on S-corps. We dont use LLCs
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

My suggestion on all the other threads like this one is to Move away from paypal to Managed Payments.
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Does the KYC law only affect people located outside the US, and sell on Ebay.com? Or, it doesn't matter where you're from?
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
if you are doing million dollars sales per year,why cant you set up a corporation?appoint yourself as CEO,and get a paycheck each month,you would report your salary in your tax return,you can make your salary so large that the corporation barely show a profit
Sure, but the CEO's name would be linked to the account. So if you wanted to play it safe you would have to name someone else as the CEO and give up 75.1% ownership in the company then trust the CEO to funnel all profits into your paycheck.

It works in theory but there isn't really anything stopping that CEO from doing whatever he wants with the money. I guess if you somehow got a well worded contract this is an option.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTheMillionaire View Post
Does the KYC law only affect people located outside the US, and sell on Ebay.com? Or, it doesn't matter where you're from?
It definitely applies if you are accepting PayPal payments within the United States. I am not sure whether it would apply elsewhere.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

If there is no owner with over a 25% stake you still have to provide someone's personal information and in this case the next in line would be the CEO/President/Director, etc (whoever is the highest position in the company). But I guess now that you mention it, maybe you could have them temporarily appointed while the application is sent and then hand it back over to yourself along with 100% of the company. Hmm...
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emporium View Post
If there is no owner with over a 25% stake you still have to provide someone's personal information and in this case the next in line would be the CEO/President/Director, etc (whoever is the highest position in the company). But I guess now that you mention it, maybe you could have them temporarily appointed while the application is sent and then hand it back over to yourself along with 100% of the company. Hmm...
That's not a bd idea.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucynda View Post
That's not a bd idea.
Temporarily appointed...
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
Temporarily appointed...
As long as they are the one in charge when PayPal asks who is the one in charge everything should be kosher.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emporium View Post
Sure, but the CEO's name would be linked to the account. So if you wanted to play it safe you would have to name someone else as the CEO and give up 75.1% ownership in the company then trust the CEO to funnel all profits into your paycheck.

It works in theory but there isn't really anything stopping that CEO from doing whatever he wants with the money. I guess if you somehow got a well worded contract this is an option.
So no one that's ever been suspended from ebay, can work for a company as a CEO, if that company sells on ebay?
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emporium View Post
I know that there have been an obnoxious number of false "the end" threads, and it's not completely the end but it looks like it could be the end of having large USA stealth accounts.

I got into eBay Stealth accounts because it was supposedly just as good as using non-stealth accounts except you could have backups.

All of a sudden it seems like this is no longer true and this completely changes the game for anyone who wants to do millions in revenue on USA stealth accounts.

Recently PayPal has asked for Beneficial Owner information on my 2 biggest accounts (LLC/EIN accounts I have been using for years). One gave me about 4 day's notice before completely suspending my ability to accept payments and withdraw money. I got some creative documents professionally made for exactly what they asked for and the day after uploading them the PayPal account was banned. After calling once they are completely unwilling to consider reinstatement at all or even go into specifics because they have already discontinued their relationship with me.

I thought I was safe but now suddenly I have to think about everything differently. After reading some threads about this issue it seems that even EIN accounts can now no longer sell over $20,000 per year each or this will inevitably happen. I realize that eBay's managed payments seem to be what will save us- but if this really is a KYC law then they will eventually just require the same thing.

If this is the true limit to try to stay under there are a few issues...

#1 I have had single listings that gross over $20,000 per year so I would have to increase the price if it's selling too fast in order to intentionally throttle sales. I would also have to only have this one single listing on the account so upselling and getting customers to buy multiple different items would not be possible.

#2 To have a 1 million dollar revenue business you would need a minimum of 50 LLCs assuming you can somehow perfectly max them all out. This is doable but would be a massive headache and could end up costing a significant percentage of sales. Balancing listings across a ridiculous number of accounts and filing monthly taxes may be the new activities that take up the majority of our time.

Really the only way that I can see a single large stealth entity being able to rely on eBay anymore is if they were so big that nobody owned 25% of the company and there was a CEO in charge who had never before had an eBay account.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone thinks I am overreacting thank god, please tell me how to bypass this. Even temporarily eBay is not inviting me to managed payments and my best goldmine listing with $50,000+ in revenue is going to be removed in January when I am no longer able to accept paypal for it.

By uploading my creative documents on the first account it got instantly banned- but I had no choice because it was already fully limited at that point anyway.

I have heard that some people just ignore the request, so that is my current plan but I am not very confident in it.

In the mean time I am making a lot more accounts (to throttle at $20k) and trying to learn how to make a successful shopify store because I have seriously lost faith in the viability of successful big stealth accounts.

----------------------------------------------------------------

However...

There is one possible solution which I have considered and would like to get some opinions on. I sell on eBay US but ship internationally and cross post to eBay UK. Could I register an account in a country where they don't have KYC laws and cross-post to eBay USA accepting payments in a foreign currency but then still ship to US customers from the US and have a ridiculous shipping fee for domestic within my registered country?
Your story is about 97% identical to mines. I don't feel like I will be able to continue to scale my business using stealth. 20k per account won't work. eBay managed payments will catch up eventually not because they want to, but because the government expects them to.

I lost 2 Paypal accounts already and a third account is pending to be limited this January.
I was able to get one account on managed payments to keep the business going in the meantime.
For the second account, I submitted docs for beneficial info and got permanently limited. Paypal wouldn't allow me to issue refund to buyers.
The third account is going to be limited in a week so I'm hoping I get accepted to manage payments soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emporium View Post
Really the only way that I can see a single large stealth entity being able to rely on eBay anymore is if they were so big that nobody owned 25% of the company and there was a CEO in charge who had never before had an eBay account.
I suggest reading beneficial owner information requirements again because the people who put together this beneficial owner requirement knew that there would people who will try to add many owners to stay under the 25% ownership requirement so they made a rule for those who would try to go this route. No matter which way you try to twist and turn it to make it work you will have to at least identify one person. I'm not sure if we can post links here, so send me a PM if you want the link.

eBay is already asking for beneficial person information, but the system is currently letting people get away **** info in some parts. I believe eventually ebay will fix this issue and start requiring that the information be real, the same way paypal is currently doing. I just hope it goes on long enough until I have a working solution.
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

OP, except paying ebay fees, did you use these accounts to send payments?
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

please explain why your Paypal got banned?
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

I believe this is an American thing only but they said my card transactions increased- however they are down for this year and the account has not had any big days relatively speaking to its history.
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Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
OP submitted forged documents.
How many stealth accounts do YOU have?
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  #20  
Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiCoin View Post
How many stealth accounts do YOU have?
He has zero. He doesnt even hardly
sell anything. Nobody knows why he is here but he obviously has a lot of extra time on his hands and nothing else to do with his time.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
if you want to post something about me,at least geT this right,I am a SHE,not a HE/
Well hell... that 100% explains your irrational, nonsensical, misinformational posts about things. I take back every bad thing I ever said about you.
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2019
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Default Re: The End for Big USA Stealth Accounts - Beneficial Owner Info Suddenly Required

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
how do you know I Dont sell anything?
YOU said this. You sell some random Antiques and collectibles. YOU have said this multiple times.
That is how I know lol

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