Anybody else happy that they were banned ?

[james13v]

Originally Posted by cr0nis

You should not be buying cars you cannot afford. If you cant pay it cash (or in one shot) then you should really look at the want vs need in that purchase. Don't get me wrong, we bought a new car last year. But we paid it off within the first month.

If you don't think that paying double the cost of a house in a mortgage is slavery then we have different ideas. The goal is not to owe money. period. Do i have a mortgage? Yes. Will i pay it off much earlier than 30 years? God willing it will be paid off by the end of 2022.

If you can't take $200,000, and double it in 15-30 years, then you really don't belong being self employed.

The goal is, to have as much cheap debt as you can, and use that money to make more money. Debt is only bad for " wage slaves". And even then, depending on the interest rates, I'd much rather have cash in hand, than a house or car I'd have to sell, in order to take cash out if ever came a need for it in the future.

I couldn't give a rats ass if that $200,000 cost me another $200,000 over the course of 30 years. I would have used the $200k I just saved by not paying cash, and use that to buy inventory, and would have turned that $200k into $2,000,000 before the mortgage has even come close to being paid off.

I would have thought, of all places, this forum I'd find people of like mind lol.

[phaz0rz]

Yankee is very big on playing the finance game, too.

It's just not for me. The extent of my credit usage is using CC's to buy postage which earns bookoo points and causes the CC company to lose money on me. Regardless of my financial standing I would rather pay for my things in cash after saving up enough to comfortably do so. I like to finance things for family members and have monthly payments coming in instead of going out.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

Yankee is very big on playing the finance game, too.

It's just not for me. The extent of my credit usage is using CC's to buy postage which earns bookoo points and causes the CC company to lose money on me. Regardless of my financial standing I would rather pay for my things in cash after saving up enough to comfortably do so. I like to finance things for family members and have monthly payments coming in instead of going out.

making your wife your debt slave

[james13v]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

It's just a fun little game we play. I pay her, she sends a portion back to me.

hey, I'm not judging!

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by james13v

so I wasn't the only one thoroughly confused by the statement?

Not at all... I don't even think HE knows what he means!

Originally Posted by james13v

I would have thought, of all places, this forum I'd find people of like mind lol.

Good luck. Most people here... well, I ain't gonna say it. Just poor business people with a low financial IQ.

MOST, not all. Don't go and get offended on me.

[phaz0rz]

[ebaystealth1974]

[yankee]

I personally would never pay cash for a new car etc.... The rates you get the past decade or two is essentially free money. 0%, .09%, 1.9% etc.... Just picked up another vehicle I need for the RV business. 2017 diesel. 3.9% It would be crazy for me to hand out 50k for a truck compared to paying 3.9% I make a heck of a lot more than 3.9% on my money.
Just as an example.

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by yankee

I personally would never pay cash for a new car etc.... The rates you get the past decade or two is essentially free money. 0%, .09%, 1.9% etc.... Just picked up another vehicle I need for the RV business. 2017 diesel. 3.9% It would be crazy for me to hand out 50k for a truck compared to paying 3.9% I make a heck of a lot more than 3.9% on my money.
Just as an example.

Exactly. I will only pay cash for something when I have too much money to invest into my business. Which will be no time soon!

[sax4]

I would only borrow money for something that makes me money. Being debt free in life is a good feeling

[Pandoras_box]

I avoid needless debt. I never buy anything on finance if I have alternatives. Credit card is fully paid every month and only took it out just to improve my credit rating.
No overdrafts or car finance. My car is old and must have had 5 owners before me. But just as Galileo retorted, "And yet it moves"

[james13v]

Originally Posted by Pandoras_box

I avoid needless debt. I never buy anything on finance if I have alternatives. Credit card is fully paid every month and only took it out just to improve my credit rating.
No overdrafts or car finance. My car is old and must have had 5 owners before me. But just as Galileo retorted, "And yet it moves"

so you've never needed to buy inventory, and didn't have the cash on hand? Never found inventory that you knew you could have turned around quickly, or inventory that would make you WAY more money than whatever piddly interest rate you might be charged?

I guess the issue comes down to, what's considered needless debt. Especially when it comes to an entrepreneur

[afincho]

For sure... along the way in this eBay business you get to learn a lot of things that you would not know without their suspension.

[phaz0rz]

Originally Posted by james13v

I guess the issue comes down to, what's considered needless debt. Especially when it comes to an entrepreneur

IMO, it comes down to how good of a job you've done saving in the past leading up to the point where you suddenly need a cash infusion. There's been plenty of times when an opportunity popped up where I could invest in a new product line and make a bunch of money. I just wire $ from my bank account rather than going to apply for a loan.

being frugal and saving as much as possible > going into debt to expand

I understand that, especially in business, there are times when it's necessary to borrow money. But that should be like, when you're wanting to open a new location and you need a half mil or some huge number. (just my opinion - don't tear me a new one).

I mean.. how do you calculate your net worth when you're in debt? Add up all your cash assets, then subtract your loan amount(s)? So most would have a negative net worth until the mortgage is paid off?

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

being frugal and saving as much as possible > going into debt to expand

Hardly ever. (if done right)

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

I mean.. how do you calculate your net worth when you're in debt? Add up all your cash assets, then subtract your loan amount(s)?

So most would have a negative net worth until the mortgage is paid off?

That's EXACTLY how! lol

Depends on the loan size, of course. What's worse, a negative net worth, while building a business/future/life/retirement? Or just doing the best you can, with what you have, and never going in debt? The answer appears to be pretty clear.

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

Right.. building wealth without ever going into debt is the clear choice for me. A negative net worth is not something I ever, ever want to have.

The only time I'd ever consider getting a big loan for personal reasons like buying a house or car, is if I already had 100% of the loan amount in savings. So that in the worst case if cash-flow is ever disrupted I could take it on the chin, pay off the loan, and keep moving forward. Being self-employed, I don't like the idea of a bank owning my major things and having the ability to take them away if I'm ever unable to make monthly payments.

Saying that you're building a business/future/life/retirement, while having a negative net worth, is a textbook contradiction to me. When I buy things in cash they still hold their value as if I'd financed them, so it's not like I'm throwing money into a void. I'm building just as much of a future for myself by saving and buying things up-front, just without having debt to stress about.

Negative net worth is an extreme example. Taking on a loan doesn't automatically put you in the negative. lol

If you have the expendable cash, that's one thing. But for a person that is wanting to grow their business, that money can ALMOST ALWAYS be put to better use. If you are content with your current setting, then so be it. A lot of people are!

The negative net worth doesn't stay negative forever. If it's even negative to begin with.

And the fact remains, it's ALWAYS cheaper to use someone else's money. (You seem to be stuck in the mindset of loans for personal items... I'm mainly discussing business options)

[phaz0rz]

Fair enough. I concede your point, especially in a business context. It's not a business move I would prefer to make, since whatever business item you finance could potentially fall flat and not make you any money. BUT I understand what you're saying. There are certain business ventures I could see myself getting a loan for.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by ebaystealth1974

Negative net worth is an extreme example. Taking on a loan doesn't automatically put you in the negative. lol

If you have the expendable cash, that's one thing. But for a person that is wanting to grow their business, that money can ALMOST ALWAYS be put to better use. If you are content with your current setting, then so be it. A lot of people are!

The negative net worth doesn't stay negative forever. If it's even negative to begin with.

And the fact remains, it's ALWAYS cheaper to use someone else's money. (You seem to be stuck in the mindset of loans for personal items... I'm mainly discussing business options)

This is something I keep trying to get people to understand, but it never seems to work. Especially with people that don't have a business. And using loans for personal items can be fine as well, because that still frees up more money for business.

Someone elses money is always cheap. Especially a mortgage. Like the previous commenter being worried about spending twice as much on your house, after 30 years.... If you can't double your investment in 30 years, then yeah, maybe it's not a good idea to take out a loan. A mortgage or home equity line of credit is insanely cheap money. You'd have to be making peanuts in your business, to not feel that to be the case.


The problem comes down to, too many people taking out too much debt for things they don't need, at very high rates. So now everyone has a negative view of it. And for them, they are right.

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

Fair enough. I concede your point, especially in a business context. It's not a business move I would prefer to make, since whatever business item you finance could potentially fall flat and not make you any money. BUT I understand what you're saying. There are certain business ventures I could see myself getting a loan for.

Right. Rentals properties are the perfect example.

Do you take $100,000 of your own cash and buy ONE property? Or do you pay 20% down on FIVE 100,000 dollar properties?

The rough comparison(no taxes, insurance, upkeep) is...

Scenario 1: Rent @ 800/month nets you 9600/year, or 9.6% ROI

Scenario 2: Rent @ 800/month nets you 9600/year each, time 5 properties = 48,000. Minus the 400/month payment on 5 $80,000 loans = $2000/month = 24,000/year in loan payments. 48,000 in rent minus 24,000 in payments = 24,000 in income. 24% ROI!

Same monetary investment, with nearly 3x the return.

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by james13v

The problem comes down to, too many people taking out too much debt for things they don't need, at very high rates. So now everyone has a negative view of it. And for them, they are right.

Exactly. One of my main gripes with the school systems, and the lack of financial education as part of the current curriculum.

But the powers that be are getting rich from those type loans, and the general low Financial IQ citizens. So nothing will ever be done to change it. :(

[assad]

I wish i was glad but not at this present money as i am at the early stages of getting back on eBay with stealth so i am making no money right now..

Hopefully i have a successful business like most of you guys soon

[james13v]

Originally Posted by ebaystealth1974

Exactly. One of my main gripes with the school systems, and the lack of financial education as part of the current curriculum.

But the powers that be are getting rich from those type loans, and the general low Financial IQ citizens. So nothing will ever be done to change it. :(

yeah, but I know that the mitochondria is the power house of the cell.