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Old 12-09-2009
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Question Think I'm about to get scammed...anything I can do?

Hello,

I'm new, but I've trolled for a few months. LOL

I sold a ring for $800. Buyer never asked a question, which I thought was odd, I take great pics, but still! PP held the money for 24 hours to confirm buyer, he had 6 feedback. 24 hours later they release, tell me to ship and they will release my funds in 21 days or less if the buyer leaves positive feedback (new PP account). I ship UPS Signature Confirmation. UPS tried to deliver three times and finally does on the third try. Meanwhile, I sent three emails to the buyer, one with update on UPS package location and two more when UPS was trying to deliver. Never received one reply.

Positive feedback was left from buyer, PP released funds. 24 hours go by and tonight the buyer advises he needs to return it since he moved. He was in UT yesterday to sign for this ring, and now has already changed his ebay location to IA, as I can see that in the email he sent (red flag to me). He magically moved from UT to IA in less than 24 hours? Maybe, perhaps... but sounds fishy. His other purchases were loose stones under $30. I'm thinking this guy is going to mail me an empty box, a toy ring or he has removed the diamonds and replaced them with Cubic Zarconias. I just have a very bad bad feeling. My listing clearly stated no returns, I had the receipt and all the paperwork with this ring. I took pictures of the ring along with the shipping label laying beside it before I sealed up the box. I've read so many horror stories.

I have not responded yet and not sure what to do. I think he is a scammer.

What should I do? He liked the ring, he just wants to return it since he moved. That's not a good reason! LOL I don't think PP will grant a return based on that, since it shows he received it, left positive feedback.

Whatcha think?

Thank you
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PM me the item no# of the deal. Will look at it and advise you
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PM sent ,thank you!
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I am SO jealous. uncletotem has a professional listing. Beautifully presented. Looking at the quality of the ring, I suspect he may be right. I have suggested he endeavor to contact the buyer by phone. (Bearing in mind the dude claims to have moved). I'm thinking along the lines of a nice approach b4 going for the kill
Any other comments,please
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Default Thank you :)

Thank you so much! It's a $3K ring and was so beautiful. I'm worried what might or might not come back from this dude.

No returns as I posted. Why give the seller the option if it means squat?

Thank you for all input
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Explain to the buyer, no returns. If he/she opens a claim with paypal then present your case with paypal.Call 3-5 times a day and speak with a supervisor or account review department!(dont know what they would do thought ) If you win that claim then watch out for the chargeback.
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100% AGREE with GreenBean, get on the phone.

Plus in these day and times, always Best to call your customer before you ship on major transactions.

My customers absolutely Love the phone call. I always start the conversation off by asking if they in fact made the purchase. Then I tell them I just wanted to make sure there was no one unauthorized using their account.

Believe me, I am always getting the Thank You!--Thank You! for calling.
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Are the accounts in question your personal accounts? Or stealth?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot2kill View Post
Explain to the buyer, no returns. If he/she opens a claim with paypal then present your case with paypal.Call 3-5 times a day and speak with a supervisor or account review department!(dont know what they would do thought ) If you win that claim then watch out for the chargeback.
Thank you for the reply!

I imagine they will notice he changed the State he lives in the very next day in Ebay, the day after receiving the ring, and then emailed me. They will be able to see that and it has "scammer" written all over it.
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Originally Posted by TheyGotMeToo View Post
100% AGREE with GreenBean, get on the phone.

Plus in these day and times, always Best to call your customer before you ship on major transactions.

My customers absolutely Love the phone call. I always start the conversation off by asking if they in fact made the purchase. Then I tell them I just wanted to make sure there was no one unauthorized using their account.

Believe me, I am always getting the Thank You!--Thank You! for calling.
Thank you for the reply!

I wish I hadn't followed PP's advice to mail it and told the guy I had to wait 21days. What do I say to him? The auction stated no returns, sorry there are no returns?
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Originally Posted by inverser View Post
Are the accounts in question your personal accounts? Or stealth?


Thank you for the reply inverser.
They are me...all me.
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Old 12-10-2009
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been in a similar position before. If you can contact the buyer from a new email address continuing the conversation outside ebay and try to get him to return it to another address that you have nothing to do with... preferably a relative in another state in case they really do mail it back. Just say hey I want to help out so please send to my return address. A lot of buyers will flat out ask what address do you want this mailed back to.

If you have trouble getting a new return address find a ups store far away...call and rent a box for 3 months for $45 (might have to fax license) Some UPS stores let you get 1 package delivered without buying a box with a fee per package. Tell buyer to just simply return it and he will get a prompt refund. Tell buyer to please provide a tracking number when they have a moment. Usually they will agree especially if they are trying to mail you back a box of rocks.

If you can get them to mail back to an address that is not connected to paypal you will be sitting a little better. Also avoid using usps for returns cause their tracking is horrible. If package arrives at the ups store call them and pay them to pack and ship the item to your address so you can see what you got back.

This does not always work but if the situation is right it will put control back in your hands....getting it to where you can argue you never got the product when the paypal claim is opened cause sometimes trying to argue the buyer returned a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ item does not fly with paypal....paypal sees a completed tracking number and usually closes cases without question yeah they say you can appeal but that's crap....

Good luck either way!

Last edited by ONE; 12-10-2009 at 03:49 AM.
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One,

Thank you for the reply. I still haven't responded to this guy yet, but I will tonight. I just know he's going to send me a gumball machine ring back. My gut feeling is telling me so and it's never wrong. Ugg.

Good idea on the address, thinking of which route to take...
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Old 12-10-2009
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I quite like the suggestions so far, but if this really is a scammer surely they will know your tricks.....a different email address, a non-paypal address to return to. Also if they return to this address, they will still have an email to show someone told them to do it and how would that person know about transaction if it wasnt you? Maybe you could lead paypal to believe they emailed themself so they could return it to themself...still its risky..

I would call paypal and tell them the loose stone purchase and the no returns on ad, means you refuse a return.....buyer I guess will do a SND dispute and say it is zirconia or something.......

Im looking at all angles here...you could arrange for an independant witness, when you sign for package, in case its a gumball ring......my guess if it is a scammer it will be the zirconia thing, that way he can say you sent it like that.......

Do you have a valuation note on this ring at all, that would help if he trys that perhaps

Really difficult situation, my policy is never to sell that type of high value items like that on ebay - magnet for scammers..........

Wish you luck......know what you mean about gut instinct, mine is never wrong and I ignore it at my peril..............
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In response to oompa and to further elaborate for the OP

Whenever you are doubting or feeling like a return or transaction is about to go south always always communicate with an alternate email that is not associated to you.

I know this sounds crazy but you can even take some of the past email communication with the buyer and paste it in the new email sent from the new email address you would be replying with. Only paste info that both parties have access to not just you or it will be obvious. The email will have more of a continuing conversation feeling to the scammer/buyer if you do it this way. I prefer to just start fresh. I have never had anyone pay attention to it though...if they are a scammer they are focused on 1 thing and 1 thing only getting a package shipped back with a tracking number...period. Their scam manual is buy, pay, complain, switch and return with tracking number. Just like us on this aspkin forum trying to stay on ebay there are other sites for online scams...scamming ebay sellers is one of them.

If you do the above and it gets to the point where paypal is sent these emails from the other email address via the scammer... don't stress it you simply tell paypal that you had not heard from the buyer since the last message from your original email connected to ebay.

Anybody can create and email and send themselves information looking like someone and that would be the overall point.

Sliding the tables to where it starts looking questionable either way or sometimes fishy on the scammers side is what you want....bringing in question not just one but a few things. The overall key though is tone in emails with the buyer and not showing signs of being worried about being scammed or returns. Make them feel like your in their palm when your really standing right behind them with a silent chainsaw....tell the buyer return it at their convenience (to the ups store for example) and please send a tracking number to you...which they know they have to keep in hand to get money back so that will be no problem for them to provide....and will give them the "no problem this is going smooth feeling" in most cases.

If the buyer keeps trying to contact you through ebay still make sure every reply you give them is from this alternate address not associated with ebay or paypal in any form. If they say they will only send the package to your registered paypal address tell them you moved and you will not get the package...or tell them you are out of town for the holidays until after new years and it will sit on your steps till you get back.

If this gets escalated make sure not to call paypal until a dispute is made AND you know the return item has been returned and is for sure a box of rocks. Don't give off the vibe or directly say you are worried about being ripped of to paypal or the buyer anytime.

Once in dispute status with paypal and the buyer inputs a tracking number for the delivered returned item. Then you call paypal and just say " hey I saw the buyer said they sent an item back but I got nothing yet and saw the tracking number showed it was delivered somewhere else....what do I do I am confused?" I like asking paypal if they got the item shipped to them from the buyer....that shows I know nothing about the dispute process.....although I do.

Remember majority of people at paypal although they are scripted and have policies are people who are normal they are just doing a job for a dirty company that cares about no one but themselves.

I REALLY hope I wrote all the suggestions for nothing and the person just wants to return the item. On smaller items we usually just refund the buyer the money and let them keep the product if their is a defect or damage...we have noticed our best feedback comes from the refunded buyers who kept the product. We have had numerous buyers tell us they feel guilty now for having the product and money....its such a strange mind game but that's all selling on ebay is full time outside of sourcing profitable niche items.
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I really like ONE's play here.
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Old 12-12-2009
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so these scam websites, we ought to read them!! pre-emptive defence....

I suppose these sites will tell scammer to tell seller to desist from communicating via a different email though, if you know that trick, so will they...? So, if they refuse to communicate though another email, I suppose they are scamming....

Has anyone tried the independant witness thing? Have a camcorder and get mailman on film with dated signature, opening box and examining ring on site......again no good if its a zirconia replacement though

I actually think if you can pull it off ONE has best idea for a zirconia replacer...

If you thought you were getting brick, then I think my idea of witness is best....

Ive learnt something from this.......
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i would put of the buyer for as long as possible without angering them to go to paypal, then if worst comes to worst and they go to paypal get the tracking number and courier name and refunse the delivery as paypal will only refund if you accept it back
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You said;

"I took pictures of the ring along with the shipping label laying beside it before I sealed up the box."

Great job! Tell him to do the same.

If you accept a return, tell him only "signature confirmation delivery, and insured with stated value of $800.00".

When it comes have your camera ready and or camcorder. Open the box before signing and explain why to the carrier. If it's a toy or rock, say "does this look like $800.00 to you? I'm not signing for this. Return to sender!"

Tell him that the sender filed a false insurance claim also and show him the picture of what he said was being shipped insured.

"Warning: Submitting a false insurance claim with intent to deceive the United States Postal Service is a felony."

You have evidence for the case. (Preferably Camcorder) for the Feds.

Could he really match the stones as to where you can't tell? How quickly? He would have handled his response better if so and not left positive feedback if he was a pro like that. Did he file a dispute? Item not as described? He just moved. Is that now a confirmed address? No.

Buyer's remorse probably because of the expense. New to Ebay rookie, maybe a teenager and thinks it is okay to return like you are a store. Tell him the auction says no returns but definately call right away if the number is available. Why not? Explain the return policy above and in an email for proof to Paypal and the Feds if it goes that route.
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Originally Posted by dburnside View Post
i would put of the buyer for as long as possible without angering them to go to paypal, then if worst comes to worst and they go to paypal get the tracking number and courier name and refunse the delivery as paypal will only refund if you accept it back
Not for an $800.00 ring. What if he sends it USPS. It just shows up in the mailbox. No way to refuse deivery and he then may have tracking confirmed as delivered. All he may need. They then agree. He gets refunded even if a toy ring was in the box. He could say item not as described, whether you say no returns or not. He can simply return, then dispute.

It's funny how a seller must use signature confirmation for item's over $250 for protection but not buyer's for a returned item. You must state in an email that it is required also as acceptance for a return.

Per Ebay,"Signature receipt for valuable items – For items with a value of US$250.00 or more, proof of signature from the recipient will be needed to show that the item was delivered to the buyer. Many carrier companies offer this as a proof of delivery service."
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Old 12-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
You said;

"I took pictures of the ring along with the shipping label laying beside it before I sealed up the box."

Great job! Tell him to do the same.

If you accept a return, tell him only "signature confirmation delivery, and insured with stated value of $800.00".

When it comes have your camera ready and or camcorder. Open the box before signing and explain why to the carrier. If it's a toy or rock, say "does this look like $800.00 to you? I'm not signing for this. Return to sender!"

Tell him that the sender filed a false insurance claim also and show him the picture of what he said was being shipped insured.

"Warning: Submitting a false insurance claim with intent to deceive the United States Postal Service is a felony."

You have evidence for the case. (Preferably Camcorder) for the Feds.
OP will not be able to open the package without a signature first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inverser View Post
OP will not be able to open the package without a signature first.
Shipping and receiving per a jewelry website.

Items valued $500-$5000 are shipped United States Postal Service insured registered mail.

Insurance coverage on shipped packages ends upon delivery. Upon receipt of your order, examine the package thoroughly to ensure the security of your package has not been violated BEFORE SIGNING for it. If you suspect tampering or damage, REFUSE DELIVERY and call us immediately at 1-800-524-xxxx. All stones will be shipped double boxed to maintain the integrity of packaging in the inner box. Therefore, if you receive a box with damage showing on the outer box or you suspect tampering, open the outer box IN FRONT OF THE DELIVERY PERSON and MAKE SURE THE INNER BOX IS INTACT. If there is damage, file a report with the driver, get a written confirmation and call us immediately. DO NOT LET THE DRIVER OUT OF YOUR SITE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS!!!

Say this is an insured expensive ring that I must verify contents before signing. Say it looks tampered with. Say you got it off Ebay and don't want to get scammed. My Postman would let me, I think. Why not?

When my 62" LCOS TV shipment arrived, the driver unwrapped in my garage and wanted to plug it in. It was fine, then I signed. I bought it from an Amazon Marketplace seller. I know UPS is like that too if refusing delivery because of damage. Seller's say do not sign, refuse delivery after inspecting contents outside and inside package. Even when getting faucets, they say to check inside the box before signing. Why not a ring? I would definately not sign unless I could verify the contents first for jewelry. He's worried about getting a toy ring.

Just in case, you do receive that toy ring instead of the original. Here is what Ebay says.

The buyer returned a brick instead of the item. What do I do?
If the buyer returns a different item, or the same item but in worse condition, the seller should appeal to eBay immediately. We will review the case, and if we find in the seller's favor we will repay the seller any funds we have reversed from their account and record the incident on the buyer's record. If a pattern emerges, we will take action against the buyer for fraud. We also track the number of times a seller claims this happens, to monitor for potential abuse.

Last edited by Justin Case; 12-16-2009 at 03:25 AM.
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