HMRC reporting of 2024

[Freakzilla]

No, I have accounts in my real details.

It needs to be plans for now, as the data has been captured from 1st January this year.

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

What are you plans going forward? Are you risking it

[brucey]

I wouldn't - I have closed most of my stealth accounts down and will convert a few to real name/addresses etc and then disclose the correct NI number to ebay when asked.

[Ill Be Back]

Originally Posted by brucey

I wouldn't - I have closed most of my stealth accounts down and will convert a few to real name/addresses etc and then disclose the correct NI number to ebay when asked.

I have one real account which is all legit with taxes paid for. Will they be able to find out who owns the stealth accounts and request for taxes to be paid or will it merely stop the account from selling further?

[Freakzilla]

Have a read of these threads dude. We have talked about this to death. Of course HMRC can find out who an account belongs to through the bank account used.

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

I have one real account which is all legit with taxes paid for. Will they be able to find out who owns the stealth accounts and request for taxes to be paid or will it merely stop the account from selling further?

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

I have one real account which is all legit with taxes paid for. Will they be able to find out who owns the stealth accounts and request for taxes to be paid or will it merely stop the account from selling further?

It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.

Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.

What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.

If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.

In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.

Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.

All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.

[Ill Be Back]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.

Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.

What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.

If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.

In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.

Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.

All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.

Thanks for the reply. I agree to everything you've said as a lot of people have said the same thing in terms of the manpower to cherry pick each individual. The question is HMRC could have done this for the past 20 plus years. Why now?

I actually know someone who works for HMRC, not very well but over a year ago I asked him about people who haven't paid their tax. He told me they will come up with excuses about how it's affecting their mental health or that they have mental health. With that the tax was struck off! I didn't fully understand or go into more detail about what he meant. To me it sounds like there are ways of still getting around it or that HMRC may still have a lax attitude towards some situations.

I have read through most of the messages in the post and it seems like it's over for most people. I am hoping that nothing comes of it as it will affect a lot of peoples lives

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

Thanks for the reply. I agree to everything you've said as a lot of people have said the same thing in terms of the manpower to cherry pick each individual. The question is HMRC could have done this for the past 20 plus years. Why now?

A change in (global) governmental legislation has forced ebay to provide this information. HMRC were not behind the decision. I'm pretty sure their work-from-home layabouts don't want extra work, they're happy paying lip service to the treasury.

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

I have read through most of the messages in the post and it seems like it's over for most people. I am hoping that nothing comes of it as it will affect a lot of peoples lives

It's not over, just got to find a way of legitimising your tax affairs. Even some stealth accounts can be ran to the satisfaction of HMRC.

In reality, the number of true stealth accounts is very small indeed, it's not going to affect 'a lot' of people. Forums like this warp reality.

[Freakzilla]

We do know exactly what info marketplaces have to provide as it's legislation, and bank account details is one of them.

It wouldn't even take a lot of manpower. This is 2024 everything is automated. The feeds from the marketplaces will be loaded in and all the info is there. Vat avoidance everything. It would easily be able to link into tax returns. I was working with systems like this at HSBC 20 years ago.

Honestly there is so much info on these threads about this. People should read them.

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.

Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.

What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.

If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.

In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.

Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.

All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.

[james_112233]

The golden days are over.

Once upon a time you could run accounts that belonged to a phantom alias, didn't have to withdraw funds just spend directly from PayPal.

[Ill Be Back]

Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.

I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.

I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.

What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.

Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.

Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.

I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.

Please let me know what you guys think.

[Freakzilla]

It really worries me what some people post on here. How do people get through life?!

That wasn't what the Etsy email actually said. They said from next month they will start to ask some sellers to supply more info.

I'm sure HMRC will be fine for you defrauding them and not paying tax on income you've made. Why would they be bothered? If they do come after you, say it's OK because members on the Aspkin forum said it wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure that will then be the end of it.

The answer is nobody knows, anything is a guess.

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.

I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.

I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.

What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.

Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.

Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.

I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.

Please let me know what you guys think.

[degsey69]

My take on it, is when eBay ask you for your NI number you will have reached a predetermined sales limit either on value or volume and they will give you 30 days to produce it or have the account limited. I believe that number is greater than £1000 but we will see as time goes on.
I think the private seller selling hundreds of thousands a year will have made themselves a target as HMRC will be monitoring high volume private sellers anyway.
So if you are asked for your NI number then go legate or close the account down or make it a business account and declare taxes.

[rswomA]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.

Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.

What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.

If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.

In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.

Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.

All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.

They provide the bank infos

[james_112233]

Originally Posted by Ill Be Back

Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.

I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.

I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.

What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.

Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.

Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.

I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.

Please let me know what you guys think.

I think a lot of people are in that exact scenario and this new A.I implementation at HMRC is there to catch them out.

Your income from Stores B, C and D that you don't pay tax on will flag up immediately but I think it won't be dealt with until a case worker gets round to it first. But I agree they will go after those that aren't even registered as self employed / directors of a LTD first rather than penalise those that are.

Your income from stores B, C, D could fully well be you getting rid of items at your house ... but then again if the turnover is ridiculously high it will raise questions.

[agent006140]

If this is USA,then the sales venues (amzn,ebay,etsy) will send a copy of your gross sales to you and IRS,the gross sales will include stores B,C,D .
So this would be a flag for IRS.
How does it work for UK,does Ebay send your sales data to the government?
If one is audited by IRS in US,the agent would ask to see your bank statements for last 2 years,he will find bank to bank transfer ,then he wants to see the statements from the other bank,this is how they trace your activities.
Any deposits which is not pension,govt or private,inheritance,insurance claims,tax refund would be considered your income,

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Can't believe it's September tomorrow and they still aren't hitting all private sellers for info.

Either they think leaving it until the last minute will be a breeze and everyone will comply or they have resigned themselves to the fact that many private sellers will simply stop selling and are squeezing out every last drop of sales.

Maybe their data shows that the majority of private sellers aren't going to hit the threshold and the numbers aren't as big as I'm assuming.

Who knows? They will have their reasons for leaving it until the last minute. They're not alone in taking their time.

Gonna be fun when it does happen...

[murdered_by_ebay]

there is a grace period of one year so they will ask next year

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

there is a grace period of one year so they will ask next year

Nope, we're already in the grace period, this was being discussed back in 2023 with an expected implementation for Jan 2024 as laid down in the regulations.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...roduction/made

Reporting will begin in January 2025.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/account/...docId=HELP1769

[murdered_by_ebay]

the first reports from the UK would be due january 2025 , one year grace period would have to allow one more year otherwise it would not be a grace period

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

the first reports from the UK would be due january 2025 , one year grace period would have to allow one more year otherwise it would not be a grace period

Are due in January 2025.


Like I said, we're all ready in the grace period. Plenty of posts on the official forum and other mainstream websites discussing this. There's even posts on this forum in 2023 asking what awaits sellers in 2024.

Do you have a reliable source that the ebay link above is incorrect and reporting wont begin until later? When is later?

[Freakzilla]

We're not actually in the grace period. That would be after January next year, as that's when the first submission should be made buy the marketplaces.

It's all stated on the HMRC website. Have a search.

The grace period is for the marketplaces to collect the info for sellers registered before this year. The same data will be reported albeit later.

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

We're not actually in the grace period. That would be after January next year, as that's when the first submission should be made buy the marketplaces.

It's all stated on the HMRC website. Have a search.

The grace period is for the marketplaces to collect the info for sellers registered before this year. The same data will be reported albeit later.

Happy to be corrected....even happier if I can squeeze out a few more private account sales before it 'get serious'. I won't be supplying NI numbers for all my accounts.

I can't find anything on the HMRC website explaining ebay have been given a grace period extending into 2025 to contradict ebays official stated position that in Jan 2025 they will be reporting to HMRC as per the link I posted earlier.

If anyone can find it that would be appreciated.