Ebay's new bright idea. Charge buyers to buy off Ebay!

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

it is not the proportion that matters but the fact that small private sellers are needed to attract buyers so that mass exodus of small sellers would have a negative impact on traffic

What makes you think that small private sellers selling off their second hand tat are needed to attract buyers?

I'm sure we're all agreed the impending potential mass exodus isn't of ebays making and is the same for all similar selling platforms.

You know a lot about ebay, what percentage of sellers would you say are genuine private sellers? Just hazard a guess to try and put my off-the-cuff 99.9% comment earlier into perspective.

[indielad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

What makes you think that small private sellers selling off their second hand tat are needed to attract buyers?

I'm sure we're all agreed the impending potential mass exodus isn't of ebays making and is the same for all similar selling platforms.

You know a lot about ebay, what percentage of sellers would you say are genuine private sellers? Just hazard a guess to try and put my off-the-cuff 99.9% comment earlier into perspective.

I'm not sure. I think you'd challenge any estimation I could come out with. It would certainly take a long time to get a true representation. I believe ebay's advertising demographic choices speak volume however and a significant proportion of ebay sales are from private sellers.. Though again, you challenge this. You seem to be a higher authority than ebay's advertising executives!

I sort of understand your opinion that it makes no sense to appeal to private sellers as ebay are not charging fees to this sector. What I'm saying, is, ebays 1.3 billion of advertising revenue says different. Obviously, ebay know something we don't. Perhaps private sellers selling tat also increases the chance of them buying off ebay and continue as a selling/buying platform.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

What makes you think that small private sellers selling off their second hand tat are needed to attract buyers?

I'm sure we're all agreed the impending potential mass exodus isn't of ebays making and is the same for all similar selling platforms.

You know a lot about ebay, what percentage of sellers would you say are genuine private sellers? Just hazard a guess to try and put my off-the-cuff 99.9% comment earlier into perspective.

it is not about genuine private sellers in legal terms but in practical terms

private means small seller / hobby seller , whether they pay taxes and have an official business is meaningless in terms of traffic and there are lot of these sellers

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by indielad

I'm not sure. I think you'd challenge any estimation I could come out with. It would certainly take a long time to get a true representation. I believe ebay's advertising demographic choices speak volume however and a significant proportion of ebay sales are from private sellers.. Though again, you challenge this. You seem to be a higher authority than ebay's advertising executives!

You are entitled to your opinion, no harm will come of a throwaway guess. Just say what you think, it can't be any worse than my wild guess which you said was laughable can it?

Any chance of the search terms you used for the 'swamping' of private sellers in the clothing category?

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

it is not about genuine private sellers in legal terms but in practical terms

Sure it is, this policy change and the reason for this thread only applies to private sellers.

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

private means small seller / hobby seller , whether they pay taxes and have an official business is meaningless in terms of traffic and there are lot of these sellers

Private seller means someone who is not registered as a business for the purpose of disposing of unwanted personal wares who do not enjoy the freedom to list large volumes and other benefits that businesses enjoy. Or, by the same token, are they expected to meet the same platform demands, fees and regulatory requirements imposed on business sellers. If they're illegally running a business on this basis then, as I said earlier, good riddance to them.

Here's a thought...what if eBay said private sellers, by their nature, were no longer allowed to list new goods? Shouldn't be an issue should it?

So what percentage of sales do you think are made by private sellers then? It would be interesting to know how far away from the mark folk think I am.

[indielad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

You are entitled to your opinion, no harm will come of a throwaway guess. Just say what you think, it can't be any worse than my wild guess which you said was laughable can it?

Any chance of the search terms you used for the 'swamping' of private sellers in the clothing category?

I did some rudimentary research! There are 18.1 million active ebay sellers on ebay. There is empirical research there are more private sellers than business accounts actively selling. I would say private sellers far outweigh businesses 10-1, but more transactions are business related about 60%..

Those private sellers would far more likely to be active buyers than business sellers I'd imagine. I can't see some corporation buying 2nd hand tat on Ebay for example

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by indielad

I did some rudimentary research! There are 18.1 million active ebay sellers on ebay. There is empirical research there are more private sellers than business accounts actively selling. I would say private sellers far outweigh businesses 10-1, but more transactions are business related about 60%..

Those private sellers would far more likely to be active buyers than business sellers I'd imagine. I can't see some corporation buying 2nd hand tat on Ebay for example

Okay, I can't dispute your estimation as I have no evidence to the contrary.

But I truly find it hard to believe that out of each 1000 sales on ebay 400 are to private sellers. Just my opinion. I don't think I've bought from a private seller in over a decade now but I'm not after collectibles or second had stuff etc. Not sure many folk are these days, particularly younger folk.

I wonder what the true figure will be in, say, 18 months time when the NI number bombshell drop has started kicking in? I reckon we'll see a lot of the scratchy businesses using private accounts disappear and I also reckon a lot of your 400/1000 guess is made up of these chancers. Whatever folk think of their perceived benefit to the site I stand by my 'good riddance' opinion.

Just to remind ourselves, genuine private sellers have (in theory, but lets not get into that) nothing to worry about and this latest fee still offers them great value for money.

[indielad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

Okay, I can't dispute your estimation as I have no evidence to the contrary.

But I truly find it hard to believe that out of each 1000 sales on ebay 400 are to private sellers. Just my opinion. I don't think I've bought from a private seller in over a decade now but I'm not after collectibles or second had stuff etc. Not sure many folk are these days, particularly younger folk.

I wonder what the true figure will be in, say, 18 months time when the NI number bombshell drop has started kicking in? I reckon we'll see a lot of the scratchy businesses using private accounts disappear and I also reckon a lot of your 400/1000 guess is made up of these chancers. Whatever folk think of their perceived benefit to the site I stand by my 'good riddance' opinion.

Just to remind ourselves, genuine private sellers have (in theory, but lets not get into that) nothing to worry about and this latest fee still offers them great value for money.

You should work for ebay's advertisement executive board! Or maybe you already do. Who knows?

My opinion is anything that squeezes "the little guy" is morally reprehensible. Particularly a ruthless, tax avoidance corporate machine such as eBay.

As I say, anyone who tries to cheat HMRC is a pillock because HMRC can soon flag bank accounts that have large sums of regular cash being deposited ,and have much more wide ranging powers than ebay. People surely know or even have been stung by this. So I don't think it'll affect regular private sellers bringing in NI. Anyway, those who do cheat will probably put in a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ NINO!

I don't want to keep repeating myself, but it might be good for your sense of justice and soul to fret a bit less if some single parent is flogging some tat to supplement her impoverished wages, or some dear old granny doing a regular car boot is avoiding some fees, and fret a bit more by the billions upon billions of taxes evaded by ebay and the corporate businesses using this site and others. You might end up paying a bit less tax yourself

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by indielad

You should work for ebay's advertisement executive board! Or maybe you already do. Who knows?

My opinion is anything that squeezes "the little guy" is morally reprehensible. Particularly a ruthless, tax avoidance corporate machine such as eBay.

As I say, anyone who tries to cheat HMRC is a pillock because HMRC can soon flag bank accounts that have large sums of regular cash being deposited ,and have much more wide ranging powers than ebay. People surely know or even have been stung by this. So I don't think it'll affect regular private sellers bringing in NI. Anyway, those who do cheat will probably put in a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ NINO!

I don't want to keep repeating myself, but it might be good for your sense of justice and soul to fret a bit less if some single parent is flogging some tat to supplement her impoverished wages, or some dear old granny doing a regular car boot is avoiding some fees, and fret a bit more by the billions upon billions of taxes evaded by ebay and the corporate businesses using this site and others. You might end up paying a bit less tax yourself

The dodgy NI number is an interesting one, I reckon it will pass muster with ebay if it meets the algorithm. Not their problem, over to you HMRC.

Don't worry about my morals, I sleep at night just fine. Maybe we've just got a different set of principles. I can only comment on matters which affect me directly and I don't consider it selfish to do so any less that the next person does. I too would like to see big corporations held to account more meaningfully but it's out of my control and successive governments have all failed, or are scared, to address it.

Just to clarify...again....as I said above, single parents and grannies unloading their personal wares have nothing to worry about and are of no concern to me. Business operators making good money hiding behind private seller accounts, one would assume for the purpose of tax evasion, are fair game as, in my eyes, they are taking sales away from me and I'd like to see the back of them. Nothing personal

[indielad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

The dodgy NI number is an interesting one, I reckon it will pass muster with ebay if it meets the algorithm. Not their problem, over to you HMRC.

Don't worry about my morals, I sleep at night just fine. Maybe we've just got a different set of principles. I can only comment on matters which affect me directly and I don't consider it selfish to do so any less that the next person does. I too would like to see big corporations held to account more meaningfully but it's out of my control and successive governments have all failed, or are scared, to address it.

Just to clarify...again....as I said above, single parents and grannies unloading their personal wares have nothing to worry about and are of no concern to me. Business operators making good money hiding behind private seller accounts, one would assume for the purpose of tax evasion, are fair game as, in my eyes, they are taking sales away from me and I'd like to see the back of them. Nothing personal

Come on! You surely know that ebay takes notice when private sellers sell over a certain limit. Ebay have forced many a private seller to a business one if these threads are to believed. So this policy purely effects dear old grannies and single parents trying to supplement their impoverished incomes.

You may not believe that corporations evading tax affects you personally, bu they do and much more so than that dear old gran avoiding ebay selling fees. It raises your taxes just as much as mine and restricts funding to public services. Unless you're involved in your own tax avoidance schemes that ebay do and use private health and education services

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

Sure it is, this policy change and the reason for this thread only applies to private sellers.



Private seller means someone who is not registered as a business for the purpose of disposing of unwanted personal wares who do not enjoy the freedom to list large volumes and other benefits that businesses enjoy. Or, by the same token, are they expected to meet the same platform demands, fees and regulatory requirements imposed on business sellers. If they're illegally running a business on this basis then, as I said earlier, good riddance to them.

Here's a thought...what if eBay said private sellers, by their nature, were no longer allowed to list new goods? Shouldn't be an issue should it?

So what percentage of sales do you think are made by private sellers then? It would be interesting to know how far away from the mark folk think I am.

private seller on ebay could be anyone as long as they have limited volume , they do not need to have a registered business , no need to write anywhere they are or are not a business , no need to pass business verification

basically anyone making a turnover of 1-2K per month could easily stay on private account and there are loads of these people. I am sure in terms of turnover business sellers make more while private sellers outweigh in their quantity

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by indielad

Come on! You surely know that ebay takes notice when private sellers sell over a certain limit. Ebay have forced many a private seller to a business one if these threads are to believed. So this policy purely effects dear old grannies and single parents trying to supplement their impoverished incomes.

You may not believe that corporations evading tax affects you personally, bu they do and much more so than that dear old gran avoiding ebay selling fees. It raises your taxes just as much as mine and restricts funding to public services. Unless you're involved in your own tax avoidance schemes that ebay do and use private health and education services

Sure, it will affect granny selling her unwanted tat. But is still a small fee for great exposure and lets not forget granny was paying more in fees this time last year. Didn't see anyone complaining then or banging down ebays door demanding private sellers should have their fees reduced.

Here's a hypothetical question for you which I appreciate is impossible to answer meaningfully. If the Treasury could enforce a noticeable taxation of big corporations how much would you like to see raised? Do you think we, as the little guys, would see any reduction in our personal taxation and/or an improvement in public services?

I don't think so. Do you know what I think would happen. My fees would go up and I'd be net worse off, ironically I might end up paying less in tax on my reduced profits. And still not be able to get an appointment with my GP and watch even more billions frittered away on the NHS, diversity, free hotels, foreign aid and the net zero madness.

I'll stick my neck out and say if the money pits I mention above were managed better we'd save many times more than we could ever hope to raise via corporate taxation.

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

private seller on ebay could be anyone as long as they have limited volume , they do not need to have a registered business , no need to write anywhere they are or are not a business , no need to pass business verification

basically anyone making a turnover of 1-2K per month could easily stay on private account and there are loads of these people. I am sure in terms of turnover business sellers make more while private sellers outweigh in their quantity

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Of course its possible for a true private seller to sell 2K per month legitimately but they are the rare exception not the rule, the vast majority are pseudo businesses hiding behind private seller accounts. Are you defending these?

None of your replies have even discussed the purpose of this thread, just a series of rants about ebay and comments about traffic.

So I'll try asking again, what percentage of sellers do you think this policy change will affect and how many 'don't deserve it'.

[SaiJin]

So mercari did this last year but as of next week they are going back to charging seller fees.

Considering eBay is a bigger platform, I wonder if this would actually work for them

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by SaiJin

So mercari did this last year but as of next week they are going back to charging seller fees.

Considering eBay is a bigger platform, I wonder if this would actually work for them

I'm not a seller nor buyer on Mercari so happy to be corrected.

As I understand it Mercari actually added the buyer fee to the sale price, making it clear to the buyer they were paying it whereas ebay intend to hide it in the listing price by adding it 'at source'. The buyer wont be aware they're paying it and is effectively a seller fee.

Additionally, ebay are only applying it to private sellers. Happy to stand corrected again but I don't think it's going to make a great deal of difference to sales given I believe the bulk are made via businesses.

TBH, I can see why the Mercari approach is being revised, even if the buyer was getting their goods cheaper than, say, ebay they'll always see that 'buyer fee' and human nature is to balk at it.

[SaiJin]

No, Mercari buyers will get their goods more expensive.

They are adding the seller fees back but I think buyers will still be paying their buyer fee.

It's like tipping in USA. Over used and abused

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Of course its possible for a true private seller to sell 2K per month legitimately but they are the rare exception not the rule, the vast majority are pseudo businesses hiding behind private seller accounts. Are you defending these?

None of your replies have even discussed the purpose of this thread, just a series of rants about ebay and comments about traffic.

So I'll try asking again, what percentage of sellers do you think this policy change will affect and how many 'don't deserve it'.

I wrote further above about the purpose , that is that private sellers have great significance on ebay

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by SaiJin

No, Mercari buyers will get their goods more expensive.

They are adding the seller fees back but I think buyers will still be paying their buyer fee.

It's like tipping in USA. Over used and abused

in my opinion it is a scheme on ebay how to avoid exodus of private sellers so that expenses are redistributed by allowing small sellers to list for free or cheaper than before while collecting the fees or parts thereof from the buyers

[james_112233]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

The dodgy NI number is an interesting one, I reckon it will pass muster with ebay if it meets the algorithm. Not their problem, over to you HMRC.

Don't worry about my morals, I sleep at night just fine. Maybe we've just got a different set of principles. I can only comment on matters which affect me directly and I don't consider it selfish to do so any less that the next person does. I too would like to see big corporations held to account more meaningfully but it's out of my control and successive governments have all failed, or are scared, to address it.

Just to clarify...again....as I said above, single parents and grannies unloading their personal wares have nothing to worry about and are of no concern to me. Business operators making good money hiding behind private seller accounts, one would assume for the purpose of tax evasion, are fair game as, in my eyes, they are taking sales away from me and I'd like to see the back of them. Nothing personal

From what i've read on the .gov website is that all digital platforms will have to do their own due diligence whether using an external agent or whatever and then submit the info to HMRC to avoid penalties by January every year ... and then if HMRC's softwares or Ai machine accepts the data you have then successfully submitted the data.

So account holders giving a false N.I might not work as HMRC may relay that back to the platform immediately.

All of this is definitely going to be automated and fed into a program, I don't think any real person is handling this mountain of data.

[indielad]

Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky

Sure, it will affect granny selling her unwanted tat. But is still a small fee for great exposure and lets not forget granny was paying more in fees this time last year. Didn't see anyone complaining then or banging down ebays door demanding private sellers should have their fees reduced.

Here's a hypothetical question for you which I appreciate is impossible to answer meaningfully. If the Treasury could enforce a noticeable taxation of big corporations how much would you like to see raised? Do you think we, as the little guys, would see any reduction in our personal taxation and/or an improvement in public services?

I don't think so. Do you know what I think would happen. My fees would go up and I'd be net worse off, ironically I might end up paying less in tax on my reduced profits. And still not be able to get an appointment with my GP and watch even more billions frittered away on the NHS, diversity, free hotels, foreign aid and the net zero madness.

I'll stick my neck out and say if the money pits I mention above were managed better we'd

save many times more than we could ever hope to raise via corporate taxation.

You seem prone to Groupthink. People are sheeple.. I remember people voting for BJ in 2020 to reduce immigration mainly caused by Brexit. The Tories of course are even more globalist than the EUphiles. All that happened then is immigration soared, even higher iit was just the colour of the skin of the immigrant that changed., but people still believed immigration would fall on his mindless mantra "get Brexit done"

Have a think about why you'd be so eager to punish the very poorest in society, but at the same time, admire or at least be relaxed about ebay's and other corporates tax avoidance. This country is 2.2 trillion pounds in debt, and that money is sorely needed.Are you thinking rationaly or participating in groupthink? Do you blame immigrants who come over seeking better lives. Or do you blame the government and corporates who exploit them for cheap labour and to artificially raise GDP?

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by james_112233

From what i've read on the .gov website is that all digital platforms will have to do their own due diligence whether using an external agent or whatever and then submit the info to HMRC to avoid penalties by January every year ... and then if HMRC's softwares or Ai machine accepts the data you have then successfully submitted the data.

So account holders giving a false N.I might not work as HMRC may relay that back to the platform immediately.

All of this is definitely going to be automated and fed into a program, I don't think any real person is handling this mountain of data.

For sure, a dodgy NI number will eventually be picked up by HMRC and relayed back to eBay, just wasn't sure on the time-frame for this and it might buy the seller a bit of extra time. I wasn't trying to imply it was a solution just that I didn't think it was eBays role to verify it at source.

Again, I don't know the answer, but does any private entity, eBay, Vinted, Deliveroo, AirbnB, Amazon, you, me etc etc have access to any State database to verify NI numbers against an individual? I would hope not. But maybe I'm a bit naive as to how freely our personal information can be accessed.


Looking at it again now I've slept on it, If I was HMRC anyone submitting a dodgy NI number would be flagged for investigation by my algorithm so maybe 'buying time' as I mooted above isn't the best idea. Think I'd be walking away from my stealth account or, as we've discussed, going legit.

I guess we'll see how it plays out over the next 12 months or so.

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

I wrote further above about the purpose , that is that private sellers have great significance on ebay

No you haven't, I can't see where you've discussed the reasoning, good or bad, for this fee and why OP started the thread. You've simply tried to derail it, as always, with anti-ebay or unconnected comments.