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  #1  
Old 10-25-2011
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Default buyer fraud

I sold an xbox 360 around a week ago. it was my personal video game system and was working great. The buyer waited like 3 days after he received it and told me that the xbox wasn't working. I then told them he could return it for a refund. he returned it and arrived today, i then plug it in and see that this isn't my xbox because it is banned on live. my guess is that he switched xbox's. I don't want to refund him and he said he is going open a case. i don't care about my feedback on this account. do i just not refund him?

thank you guys
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2011
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First of all, this is one of those buyers that is clearly out to get you from the start. With paypal you are limited to what you can do, so here is the #1 foolproof plan that has always worked for me in attempted buyer fraud.

Email him in a very professional manner and explain that the xbox he has returned is not the original one you sent him. Tell him that you are going to file a police report for return fraud (look up the official name, because I know it exists), and that if he does not return the original xbox you are going to pursue this case legally. Yes this is a scare tactic, but at the same time it is 100% something you can officially do. You can call their local police department and file a report. Odds are this is some scum bag kid, trying to pull a fast one.

I have done this in the past and it has always worked. On one occasion the buyer decided to play the game, and I did file a police report and magically 1 day later he canceled the claim.

If you have pics of the serial number or the original serial number this would help. Check to see if the warranty/serial number has been tampered with.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2011
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It sounds like he switched it, or tried to modify it so that it would play the pirated game discs.

You said you don't care about the feedback, but do you care about the account?

If not, fight it tooth and nail, but realize that you could easily lose.

If you care, I would then try to work out some sort of a partial refund.

And before it goes totally south, you might want to email him (preferably through eBay) to ask if he happens to know how it got "banned" on Live. His response, if he is not careful, could give you some ammunition.
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Old 10-26-2011
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Did you take any photos of your own Xbox including unique identifiers such as the serial number?
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2011
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If a buyer threatens me at all, I phone them immediately. That is a load of BS, I am sorry but some things are not acceptable. I won't knowingly sell to anyone who does not have a valid phone number on file with EBAY. My buyer restrictions require a telephone number be provided with the order.

So far I've phoned THREE buyers 3 could still do a claim or leave bad feedback but all owe me money. My third buyer this happened with was just this morning so I am still probably heated from it. Had a terrible last 3 days...

Here's my phone call (example)
"
is this John Carlson?"
"yes"
"The Mr. John Carlson I sold a radio to on EBAY?"
(then they pause.. sometimes i had to say H-E-L-L-O??)
"yes"
"what in the HECK is going on?? You did this to me" (insert whatever they did to me)

and I keep telling them all they did to me which generally takes a long time...they always hang up on me



Then they pm me REALLY FAST a more balanced whiny pm saying the same load of BS of how they cannot receive a call at that number and how I didn't let them talk blah blah blah blah blah

I reply "YOU can't possibly be telling me I cannot contact you at the number YOU put on file at EBAY for if there are problems with our transaction?!! cause that wouldn't make sense now would it?!!" "And if EBAY needs to call you??" then I finish what I was saying on the phone they did to me .....I end it with....

"YOUR WELCOME THAT I

1. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
2. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
3. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
4. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
5. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)

I end with one short sentence what will happen: It Reads...Again, as I ALREADY told you... (insert whatever I told them would happen already)

After that... I don't hear anything from them again. No bad feedback, claims or whatever. But I don't care about EBAY, or even my best Ebay account with 100% all great dsr's and 100 seller fb) I don't make much money on Ebay, it's more of an addiction


.

Last edited by Melissa1971; 10-26-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa1971 View Post
If a buyer threatens me at all, I phone them immediately. That is a load of BS, I am sorry but some things are not acceptable. I won't knowingly sell to anyone who does not have a valid phone number on file with EBAY. My buyer restrictions require a telephone number be provided with the order.

So far I've phoned THREE buyers 3 could still do a claim or leave bad feedback but all owe me money. My third buyer this happened with was just this morning so I am still probably heated from it. Had a terrible last 3 days...

Here's my phone call (example)
"
is this John Carlson?"
"yes"
"The Mr. John Carlson I sold a radio to on EBAY?"
(then they pause.. sometimes i had to say H-E-L-L-O??)
"yes"
"what in the HECK is going on?? You did this to me" (insert whatever they did to me)

and I keep telling them all they did to me which generally takes a long time...they always hang up on me



Then they pm me REALLY FAST a more balanced whiny pm saying the same load of BS of how they cannot receive a call at that number and how I didn't let them talk blah blah blah blah blah

I reply "YOU can't possibly be telling me I cannot contact you at the number YOU put on file at EBAY for if there are problems with our transaction?!! cause that wouldn't make sense now would it?!!" "And if EBAY needs to call you??" then I finish what I was saying on the phone they did to me .....I end it with....

"YOUR WELCOME THAT I

1. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
2. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
3. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
4. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
5. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)

I end with one short sentence what will happen: It Reads...Again, as I ALREADY told you... (insert whatever I told them would happen already)

After that... I don't hear anything from them again. No bad feedback, claims or whatever. But I don't care about EBAY, or even my best Ebay account with 100% all great dsr's and 100 seller fb) I don't make much money on Ebay, it's more of an addiction


.

I have 100s of non paying ebayers a week. None of which have left negative feedback ever. Why do you call them? This only leads them to sign on, and screw you over. I would say that 90% dont plan on paying, so as soon as you open the non paying case, they cant leave feedback of any sort. The remaining 10% just havent paid for whatever reason and actually want the item.
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2011
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@Mel, golden way of handling service =)

Quote:
quote

My buyer restrictions require a telephone number be provided with the order.
How do you manage to push this into the auction? A tip would be nice =)

Hope you are feeling less angry
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2011
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I don't want to sound pessimist but it is a lost battle. Ebay with the stupid buyer protection policy and it seller destroyer policy is making possible for buyers to scam sellers in this way.

That is why I do not sell any electronics anymore. I have heard enough horror stories. There are a bunch of buyers that when an electronic item gets broken they buy one used just exactly like the one they have and then exchange it and return the broken one to the seller. There is no way to demonstrate to pay pal that the used item he returned is not the same you sent to him.

The only prove pay pal needs is a tracking number or a signature of delivery confirmation to your address to believe that the seller returned the item even if inside the box was a brick they don't care, this evil system is on automatic there are not real persons checking each single dispute.

It is better to sell electronic using craiglist or another person to person site, ebay is just to risky.
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa1971 View Post
If a buyer threatens me at all, I phone them immediately. That is a load of BS, I am sorry but some things are not acceptable. I won't knowingly sell to anyone who does not have a valid phone number on file with EBAY. My buyer restrictions require a telephone number be provided with the order.

So far I've phoned THREE buyers 3 could still do a claim or leave bad feedback but all owe me money. My third buyer this happened with was just this morning so I am still probably heated from it. Had a terrible last 3 days...

Here's my phone call (example)
"
is this John Carlson?"
"yes"
"The Mr. John Carlson I sold a radio to on EBAY?"
(then they pause.. sometimes i had to say H-E-L-L-O??)
"yes"
"what in the HECK is going on?? You did this to me" (insert whatever they did to me)

and I keep telling them all they did to me which generally takes a long time...they always hang up on me



Then they pm me REALLY FAST a more balanced whiny pm saying the same load of BS of how they cannot receive a call at that number and how I didn't let them talk blah blah blah blah blah

I reply "YOU can't possibly be telling me I cannot contact you at the number YOU put on file at EBAY for if there are problems with our transaction?!! cause that wouldn't make sense now would it?!!" "And if EBAY needs to call you??" then I finish what I was saying on the phone they did to me .....I end it with....

"YOUR WELCOME THAT I

1. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
2. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
3. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
4. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)
5. (insert whatever generous thing I did for them here)

I end with one short sentence what will happen: It Reads...Again, as I ALREADY told you... (insert whatever I told them would happen already)

After that... I don't hear anything from them again. No bad feedback, claims or whatever. But I don't care about EBAY, or even my best Ebay account with 100% all great dsr's and 100 seller fb) I don't make much money on Ebay, it's more of an addiction


.
I am glad to see someone else uphold principle instead of bending over and taking it. I have burned a few accounts sticking to my principles. If it was not not so easy for me to make new account, it might have been stupid to burn them over a couple of hundred dollars. I do regret burning one that had a debit card attached from before you had to supply SS number.
That hard thing is that many phone number on ebay are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or out of date. I know the phone numbers on all my buying and selling account are throwaway.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2011
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From experience ebay will want proof that you were returned the wrong xbox.. So like Binary says you need to have your old serrial number etc...
Or proof that the xbox worked.

If you dont have the above then i would email the buyer implying that you DO have the above info and see how he proceeds.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
@Mel, golden way of handling service =)
How do you manage to push this into the auction? A tip would be nice =)

Hope you are feeling less angry
LOL! Yeah I am feeling better today. Trying to get my Aunt to the psychiatrist so one of my best friends, an MD referred her. She's in a care home, they are against me doing this as is my parents but I found out neither have conservatorship over her so I am applying. Grandma died some years back and never mentioned her own daughter in her will. She has down syndrome and stays with us sometimes, lives only a few miles away. Is having bad side effects from the psychotropic drugs her MD prescribed, keeps her over doped. Thanks for caring rsot, I appreciate it.

I wish I had posted about this option when I noticed it. Honest, I went into my buyer restrictions and it is gone!! It WAS there, the option to require a telephone number but it is missing now. YET IT IS STILL WORKING. I'll update via this thread if my next order shows a phone number. Hopefully all my EBAY accounts show phone numbers, haven't really paid much attention I only know my last 6 orders or more have shown numbers. ANYONE CAN CHECK IN YOUR BUYER RESTRICTIONS TO SEE IF YOUR ACCOUNT ALLOWS IT. ONLY SOME ACCOUNTS DO. I WILL POST THE ARTICLE I FOUND ONLINE

MY EBAY
SITE PREFERENCES
BUYER RESTRICTIONS (EDIT THEM)


.

Last edited by Melissa1971; 10-26-2011 at 09:06 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2011
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http://tamebay.com/2011/05/requiring...addresses.html

Requiring buyers to supply a telephone number


The first change is the ability for sellers to choose to require buyers to supply a telephone number at checkout. This is required by many couriers and mandatory for many larger items where the courier needs to ensure the buyer will be at home to receive delivery.
The ability to contact a customer and schedule delivery, or of course to telephone them if there is a delay or other problem with their order should be a given, yet too many times eBay buyers donít have their phone numbers either appended to their delivery address or updated to their current contact number.

Requiring buyers to provide telephone numbers and physical addresses
by Chris Dawson

Last night on RRB Radio Ė The River the Ranch and the Bay, there was an interesting snippet from eBay_Andy, an eBay Enterprise Account Manager and eBay Ink blogger. eBay have tested with a small amount of users the ability to require buyers to supply certain additional information at checkout.The changes on eBay.com have currently been rolled back but hopefully will be fully implemented across the site in the near future.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2011
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Never going to happen, especially with cell phones. Landlines are dead, and with online phone numbers you can pick the city you want it in.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dollarbill View Post
I am glad to see someone else uphold principle instead of bending over and taking it. I have burned a few accounts sticking to my principles. If it was not not so easy for me to make new account, it might have been stupid to burn them over a couple of hundred dollars. I do regret burning one that had a debit card attached from before you had to supply SS number.
That hard thing is that many phone number on ebay are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or out of date. I know the phone numbers on all my buying and selling account are throwaway.
So far the phone numbers have been accurate but... maybe it's been luck.
Like you said, gotta weigh lots of factors and how much the account means otherwise you may regret it.

I google their number prior to fulfilling the order. If I did better on EBAY, my patience level would increase

Regarding Amazon, out of about 600 orders, I've had two bad scammers (threatened me) and maybe 4 others who just lied to get the item for free. I forced just one to go to Claims, otherwise it's worked out really well selling on Amazon. EBAY and AMAZON for me is like night and day.
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