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When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Alright I just had a buyer claim what I sold them is "phake".

Little while ago I started "drop shipping" or in my case pre sale. I listed a shirt and when it sold I bought it via a very popular online and brick & motor outlet store.

There claim is that I listed the country incorrectly and the shirt was really made out of "china". Clearly that statement is A) ignorant B) racist

Thousand upon thousands of brands are manufactured in China. I honestly don't even know if I screwed up and listed the country incorrectly or not but I know its the real thing. So I phoned eBay and they said "blah blah blah you have to accept the return". I called back and got a AMERICAN rep and basically just asked her to admit I have no protection when a buyer claims something is phake. Because if you wont accept an invoice that came out of my PAYPAL account and the fact im TRS & Powerseller with 4.9 DSR's and 0 defects then you just don't protect sellers, period. What in reality could I provide to you as proof their statement is false?

She then told me because the buyer clearly said they removed the tags before they noticed the "discrepancy" off a TECHNICALITY I'm covered. Now I think most reps still will side with the buyer but if I call 4-5 times I'll get one to side with me. Any thoughts?

We all face this issue at least once and I'm curious who has won this type of claim and how.

Thanks

P.S the invoice has my ADDRESS ON FILE, my STEALTH name, AND email address associated with both eBay, and paypal accounts.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I know this is not what you asked, but I have always just immediately refunded such people. The few times when a claim would get to eBay, I made a statement that I would never knowingly sell anything counterfeit and that I believe that the buyer is wrong, but that I will refund their money to avoid any hard feelings. That usually allowed me to save the account. The fact is, even when you sell totally legitimate items, at some point you will be accused of selling counterfeits. There are some buyers out there who know this is a great way to get stuff for free. And they know it is always better to target the small sellers. Because if they claim an item they got from Newegg is counterfeit, eBay will side with the seller. So they target us instead.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Sorry, I'm not refunding someone $179 bucks because they want to make a false claim. Maybe that's the smart route but I just can't allow someone to take advantage of me like that.

I buy a lot of my stuff from goodwill, salvation army and if I bought it from there then sure I wouldn't have a strong case. In reality anything bought from goodwill or salvation army could be "phake" its almost impossible nowandays to know for sure.

But because I truly know its real, because it was bought from a authorized reseller its just very very hard for me to let someone try to do this. I don't know.....If I win I at least know another "technicality" that can be used to win cases. Once again its all off how someone words their complaint, NOT the actual complaint itself.

I'm hoping they open a case today so I can just get this over with. Extremely frustrating

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

If you have a legitimate authorized supplier, that changes the equation. Because if eBay calls you on it, you can prove they are the real thing.

The thing is, to get items cheap enough to be competitive on eBay usually requires sourcing them for non-conventional supply channels. Not every non-conventional supply channel has a legitimate source of supply, so in those cases eBay errs on the side of caution to protect themselves.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

One rep told me EVEN IF I got a document FROM the actual brand stating its authentic they wouldn't accept it. :mad2:

:eek:

:shocked:

:rant::rant::rant::rant:

It's probably the stupid rep I talked to but again I did this 100% correctly, in stealth terms. I bought it via my PAYPAL account, with my STEALTH name as the billing name, and my email address associated with both accounts. The address it was sent to was my address on file and was the REAL BUSINESS NAME that is on my BUSINESS Paypal account.

We'll see shortly....

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I'd expect eBay to always side with the buyer in a counterfeit claim, regardless of what documentation you can provide. I am NOT saying I agree with this, just what I expect.

It's just like the "I received an empty box" claim that eBay always decides with the buyer on. I've seen stories from many very legit accounts that sell very expensive gold coins that have gotten ripped off on this.

The problem is even with a legit invoice, eBay doesn't 100% KNOW if some of the seller's items are legit, and perhaps they knowingly "pad" their inventory with others to bring their average cost down.

I don't agree with always siding with the buyer, but granted, I don't know what else they could do. They do have to make consistent rulings I guess. And, they can't afford to do an in-person investigation.

IMO, you lucked out on this one because the customer admits they physically altered the product by cutting off the tag. eBay will see that no different than if they burned it and wanted to return it.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I agree and I disagree.

I always "try" to use this as a example when talking to a rep but it never works in their small minds. If you are a seller that is TOP RATED PLUS with 0 defects and has consistently proven your doing your job correctly I personally feel you should NOT get treated the same as someone that just opened an account, better yet someone that has a bunch of negatives or who is below standard.

That part makes 0 sense to me. It's like if you worked at a store and was the employee of the month X amount of times and everyone knows your doing above and beyond the call of duty and a customer, say pays for something with $100 dollars for a $5 item and they claim you shorted them, should the company really press charges on the employee that has proven themselves time and time again?

Maybe thats not the best example but my point is what is the point of having feedback, being a top rated seller all the stuff they claim is important to be successful if again they review cases the same way if I were to have 5 negatives just left on an account with a 10% defect rating..doesn't make any sense to me.

Sure your right. I could have just bought the shirt and someone found a "phake" remake of the exact same shirt and resold. That's the part I agree on.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

What scares me is what you are going to do should a TRS account be taken down because you hope you are invincible.

:pout:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

After 1st of February I just stopped arguing with my buyers, I just refund and forget, as my brain cells cost more than the whole eBay combined. Even at a loss, I prefer to be a mentally healthy person, healthy brain will bring me more profits, as arguing with buyers is a hell work.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I have been in this situation many times... The category I sell in is highly counterfeited. I always upload pictures of the actual item being sold. A Invoice from Legitimate supplier that I am an authorized seller, then I include the name of my sales rep, His phone number, his extension and my account number.

I have never lost using this method... It comes back to having all your ducks in a row... Prepare for cases before selling.

Also, when you source your product always think "how would ebay like this and how would I fight a case"... If I cannot come to solid answer then its not worth selling.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Its a tough call..you could "open up a case with ebay" ...BUT then you get one defect rate increase because its a "case closed without seller resolution"....and your only allowed to have 2 of those, any more than two and you go into the "below standard" status.

It is a tough call..

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I highly agree with this^

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

eBay does not look at you like a counterfeiter just because a buyer says "counterfeit" They get this BS all the time. They are aware that people just sometimes are plain ignorant or just out to get something for free. The only time I have had to worry about getting tagged for counterfeit items is when I get an email stating that VER0 took me down or a message stating that my item has been used in similar listings that have not been authentic. So just because a buyer says "counterfeit" doesnt mean ebay will side with them.

However, the buyer not being able to return the item through eBay in its original condition is definitely good for you. If the buyer had any sense, they would open a SNAD PayPal claim, if your truly listed the "country of manufacture" incorrectly. That way they can just cut your legs off then run over you. :)

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

It is best to send them a prepaid shipping label and have it sent back to you the correct way. Too many times, the buyer wants to send it back to the registered address, which we know could pose problems for the seller. But if u offer to pay for the shipping back, at least u know u get it back the right way. Buyers usually never complain about that I have found if the seller pays for shipping, just something u have to eat up, cost of doing business.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

LOL.

Not sure where I said I was invincible but if you think an ebay rep should treat a TRS account the same way as someone below standard then well.....

I have nothing to say. :doh:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

What happened on feb 1? I thought new changes coming on feb 20?

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I love it when my business model means that even the most expensive orders ($200) literally costs me $10 out of pocket, and more like $3-4 at most. With a refund rate somewhere around 1% (Usually spikes right after Christmas), I'm usually swimming in cash.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I made over 6K last month which is the most I've made since I started selling.

I do good for myself but I have a back bone too. If I put 175$ in your hands and said its yours then someone grabbed it out of your hands and said "nope" I can assure you wouldn't let them do it..

Its only because we sell strictly on the internet that people try these games with us. I know he wouldn't pull this crap in a real brick & motor store. Even if he did they would laugh at him.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Wondering how this turns out. I've seen both out comes in situations like this. Even though the customer took off the tags i would have just accepted the return and put up up for sale again. Calling in paypal and ebay talking with them and arguing with the buyer is something i would rather avoid to save me some time and anger even i was in the right.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

him admitting to messing with tag is what you need to cling on to HARD... forget proving if it really is auth at this point in my opinion... maybe worst case scenario you send him a small partial refund to shut him up and you move on...

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

also its buyers like this who I hope n pray are also selling ANYTHING on their acct... if you catch my drift... :fight::boink::fight:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I'd personally be worried about the buyer leaving a negative feedback claiming you sell f@kes.

That would kill the credibility of the account and future sales.

Out of fear of that, I'd agree to a refund with the condition they leave me a positive feedback saying "Thanks" first.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

What I am saying is this:

Be careful your own pride as a TRS does not come against you.

Not for one moment do I doubt you do not do your very best.

But ebay has killed accounts of others like you.

Avoid this.

:peace:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

quoted for troof.

I remember when I first joined ebay I started selling random things around the house. One thing that I sold for 99p became "problematic" as the buyer wanted a refund and opened a case.
I still look back at this transaction because it was hilarious- I was so, so stubborn and refused to give him refund out of a principle, because I said in my listing that the item was used and I don't even know if its working anymore(It was my old SLR camera Flash, Helios 88 or something like that)
Sure enough it got escalated and I lost the case.

Now looking back, when I automatically refund anything less than £20-30, it seems hilarious but a perfect example how "I'm right, I know I am" attitude can sometimes seriously hurt you when it comes to eBay.


Now I just move on, in most cases, because whats the point? I sleep better, knowing that I don't have ANY open cases, because open cases=potential surprises, and I don't like eBay surprises.
When we talk about whats real and whats not real, who knows? Just refund the poor sod, know that he just got some free stuff of you, and move on.
You don't want to lose your account over nothing- You are focusing on that one sale, one customer and one case, but you are in danger of losing long term goal- A healthy account that lasts for a long time and that creates you hundereds, if not thousands of sales.

Don't get stuck in a moment, just keep on moving.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

A lot of times I almost welcome the case if I know I'm getting a negative. Any case opened gets connected to the feedback so even if they open another separate case they can't leave feedback.

I honestly think this happened because I had sold a jersey to someone two months ago and they just now left feedback saying "all went great but the jersey is phake". Mind you he left positive feedback.

So it seems a little ironic I get someone claiming I sold them a "phake" when I just got feedback claiming the same thing. Oh well...

In all honestly these types of situations are new to me. I increase in sales every month because I'm always reinvesting in myself so naturally my sales increase. The more sales the more "possible" problems.

And I do safe guard my TRS status because when buying clothes it increases your sales ALOT. You get way more international sales and new comers, which I welcome. You get away with selling NWOT more and buyers simply trust you more, naturally. It's hard to maintain a TRS accounts though, it's not easy in the clothes business.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

This is a fine line in ebay policy....

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Yeah actually that would be the worst thing to do in this type of situation IMHO.

Reason being is you cannot ask the buyer to leave positive in exchange for something just like a buyer cannot request the seller to do something and if they don't comply they will leave a negative.

If you did that the buyer could easily just keep the money and leave a negative and you can't do anything about it. Actually if you let eBay review the message where you made that type of offer they could restrict you from selling if they truly wanted to.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Not even going to read the thread.

My 2 cents:

Don't enable bad behavior.

Refunding a buyer who you KNOW is intentionally trying to scam you ENCOURAGES the behavior in the future.

I'm lucky enough to be financially stable so that I don't need to please EVERY buyer. I can take a hit or three. For me, the principle matters more than the $$$. Unless you have a history of complaints, or are on new account, ONE bad buyer won't tank your account.

I agree with you solefood, the behavior has to be dealt with. SOMEONE has to stand up and say: "NO. I'm not going to allow you to steal from me."

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Do NOT get comfortable with that strategy. Everything we know, is over. Finished. Let me say, you HAVE done everything the right way. However, you've left out the MOST IMPORTANT fact: it's PayPal. It's eBay. .... They are the Stepford Wives of Business. Dumb & Dumber. No brain function. There is no way to know what those Walkng Dead employees will do. They must get really great perks, bonuses & lobotomies to find in favor of the buyer, scammer when a seller, you, proves your case. Soon, the day will come you'll lose. Be prepared.
If you knew what PayPal has done to me, and so many other sellers.. I'm 2 months into this. USPS, & now the FBI are both on my side. Remember this, proof means nothing to pp, eBay. Company Kickbacks must ease their guilty conscience ....

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

As we all know, buyers are always right, even if they are scamming you, as EB does not care what the seller says. So I personally better spend my time and health to earn more funds other than sending zillions of mails and calling to ebay to talk to another brainless monkey.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Ermmm, thats almost exactly the opposite to what I would do in his situation and what I do in my situation.

When I'm together with my friends and somebody throws a "fact" out there, then I'd be more than happy to argue over it and prove him wrong- With the help of Google or if its more delicate "perspective" or "point of view" things I'd perhaps use examples and different talking points to change that persons view.

BUT, when it comes to online sales and running a stealth account its pretty simple: the less problems, the easier it is for me.
Sure, when you don't have the bank to take the hit, its more complicated but generally if you feel that "I can take a hit or three" then why wouldn't you?

Whats the deal with people "fighting the fight"? It's online and its totally random people doing it, you are not proving a point to anyone.

I guess each to their own, but the whole white knight things about justice is so overrated. Take that same energy and do something productive with it, something that matters.

:uk:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Exactly! Cooler heads prevail. Pride cometh before a fall, Pick your battles. Etc etc ..

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

pick your battles? Nah bruh, I'll just avoid all sorts of battles and if possible, just throw money at the problem till it goes away.

Its business, nothing personal. In business, everything boils down to numbers, nothing else. Time is the most important number, nothing beats it.
If business is a game of blackjack, time is house.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Before, if a buyer claimed it was ⊗⊗⊗⊗, they would be required to get proof. Even if there is a million things wrong and one of them is that it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Unless they got proof, they wouldn't get refund.

Paypal/Ebay ditched this policy ~2 years ago because it's impossible to get proof. Most retailers will not write document stating it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ because (1) your not their customer, you didn't buy from them (2) liability - retailer has a lot to lose, can be asked to show up in court etc. and nothing to gain

now they don't require any proof, ebay will just ask them to return it. i'd 100% work it out with buyer, if it's sent to ebay your screwed. if you sold under ~25 items and one says it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ you'll be asked to supply invoices.

note even if items are legit and you receive many ⊗⊗⊗⊗ claims, ebay/paypal will be quick to drop you. a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ claim counts almost like 5x a regular claim.


On a side note I sold a $3k jacket few years ago, buyer claimed ⊗⊗⊗⊗, than damaged etc. It was real and ebay asked to get proof and he some how got proof and was able to return for 100% refund. At this point I know something is fishy because it was real. Ebay won't tell me where he got document, they say it's big retailer and they called to confirm. Eventually one ebay rep slipped and told me where. It was a Macy's store by an employee with the same last name as the buyer. Macy's doesn't even sell this brand name, and that employee works in household goods. Long story short, the employee was the scammer's dad. He's fired now =} as for the case, I blamed ebay for negligence, they said i had a refund policy so regardless they would of asked him to return it, i told them my return policy also says 50% restocking fee:bounce: so ebay ended up paying me $1,500 and I got my item back. Man, the good ole days where ebay admits faults and corrects itself:hail:

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Childish answer. Your answer only applies to UTOPIAN world. Did you stand up to eBay/Paypl when they tried to ban or limit your account/money? I bet you hired the top lawyer in the country and sued them, didn't you?

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

I get what you are saying. My thoughts..YOU come before the buyer. For you and all the members here, we are sellers & buyers. We are not policing, or raising those little scammers. Enabling or encouraging anyone. We can't control future behavior. We can only control ourselves. i personally would refund and roll off my back. 200 is a small amount. Why draw attention and potentially lose a stealth acct? You are financially secure but some here, not so much.
Me, $9-10,000.00....+ Merchandise will not be returned to me! that to me is worth losing an account over. PayPal limited me, withdrew 2000 from my bank, then another 3500.00. PayPal does not like it when a sellers bank (my bank) withdrew 2000 then 3000 ach from PayPals BankAccount:) then my bank blocked PayPal, Fraud. Dayum....that felt awesome.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

This isn't even apples and oranges...it's apples and rocks.

Some 2 bit scammer on eBay and eBay itself aren't only not in the same ball park, they're on different planets..... :doh:

My answer applies everywhere. I WIN my cases. Since you like giving out free product, why don't you just PM me your eBay links? I'll buy your stuff and get it for free, since I know you won't fight me about it.... :thumb:

You're a sucker.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Then you are the best stealther on the planet and far superior to everyone else on the forum. :hail:

Unfortunately the rest of us live in the real world. We know that even if we are 110% in the right, and provide undisputable proof in cases, ebay will side with the buyer the vast majority of the time. It is just not a profitable use of time to keep fighting cases for insignificant amounts.

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Sum1 got a big EGO....

Re: When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"
 

Solefoodbk......how long ago did you buy this stock via paypal?

What would stop you just giving a refund and then requesting one yourself from your supplier?