10 000 Euros Threshold for Intra EU sales Bomb Timer Ticking

[nerukas]

Most probably most of you are not aware of the coming changes in EU E-commerce law regarding new VAT requirements. So just wanted to put some light into this. Most probably this will have a huge impact not only on the Stealth accounts but also on a Legit accounts who are now ejoying the current thresholds to each European Union country individual, which is to most countries 35k Euros to each, and some have 100k Euros like Germany, Italy, Netherlands. This is going to end very soon.

"From 1 July 2021, the threshold for distance sales of goods becomes EUR 10 000 per year and it covers all distance sales of goods to customers in all EU Member States. The previous annual EUR 35 000 distance sales threshold for each Member State (or EUR 100 000 for a limited number of Member States) disappears."

This is a copy paste information from a new EU VAT e-commerce rules which are implemented in the Council VAT directive and Implementing Regulation.
It comes into force 2021-07-01.
And all E commerce platforms will most probably entitled to collect the VAT from the sellers.

So MP is not the only and most probably not the worst threat to Stealth.

By the way, in the same directives there are new rules about Imports from Third party countries, with the requirement to have intermediates for VAT declarations, or for platforms to collect VAT, different situations different solutions, but the requirements will change a lot also for Chinese guys etc.

[Angelina]

Ok so time has come.
The EU threshold is 10k eur.
I have one eb acc that passed 10k limit and I registered for OSS number.
Today I went to eb to ‘selling pref’ where I had my local vat number and checked the OSS to enable it and make eBay aware I can collect vat from now on.
But looking at my sales history I see eb still collecting vat fees from my transactions.
Why they still doing that? Shouldn’t be my responsibility ? Isn’t this the point of having own OSS so I can comply with vat in every Eu country?
I setup all vat for EU countries to 0 but eb takes the vat from each transaction even if I setup 0.
What am I doing wrong?
How do I setup vat correctly?

I’m sure there are many EU sellers in same situation. Let’s share some information about new vat directive and how we go going about this.

[murdered_by_ebay]

it is likely that the EU have wanted this for a long time but could not do it as long as the UK was in the union. Once it has left they quickly changed the system.

This means the death of EU established professional sellers pretending to be private sellers and this will certainly lead to higher prices on ebay since many sellers will go out of business or will have to open up officially.

on the other hand non-EU sellers selling to the EU will have an advantage although the EU probably wanted it the other way around

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Angelina

Ok so time has come.
The EU threshold is 10k eur.
I have one eb acc that passed 10k limit and I registered for OSS number.
Today I went to eb to ‘selling pref’ where I had my local vat number and checked the OSS to enable it and make eBay aware I can collect vat from now on.
But looking at my sales history I see eb still collecting vat fees from my transactions.
Why they still doing that? Shouldn’t be my responsibility ? Isn’t this the point of having own OSS so I can comply with vat in every Eu country?
I setup all vat for EU countries to 0 but eb takes the vat from each transaction even if I setup 0.
What am I doing wrong?
How do I setup vat correctly?

I’m sure there are many EU sellers in same situation. Let’s share some information about new vat directive and how we go going about this.

if you are based outside the EU it only makes sense to register for OSS if you mostly deliver items worth more than 100 something Euros because you would be able to declare VAT on them separately.

with low value items ebay and other marketplaces will deduct VAT automatically and you would need to mark the packets so that customs don't charge VAT a second time

anyway Berlin and Brussels decided to destroy non-EU sellers of low value items by charging VAT through ebay etc. and additionally charging VAT again at customs and also slowing down deliveries to make local sellers more attractive

however , the 10000 Eur threshold they introduced for the local sellers will eventually work as counterweight because this will break the neck of scores of pseudo private sellers domestically , will reduce selection and increase domestic prices making the sales to the EU profitable to non-EU sellers

[Aguero]

This new treshold is for all EU online sellers or only for companies ?

How can individual eBay seller applies for a VAT number in Germany when 10k euro treshold is reached ?

I found info in eBay.de account that I still don't have enough sales in order to be reported. I'm reading lots of EU and eBay documents but I can't figure it out.

[murdered_by_ebay]

it is easy to figure out. once you have 10000 EUR in turnover from EU buyers within a calendar year you will be blocked from selling anything in the EU until you get a valid VAT number

this is a problem because it essentially destroys the private sellers in the EU as it makes many of them either register a business or quit

[Aguero]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

once you have 10000 EUR in turnover from EU buyers within a calendar year you will be blocked from selling anything in the EU until you get a valid VAT number

Turnover including eBay VAT ?

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Aguero

Turnover including eBay VAT ?

if you sell from EU to EU there should be no VAT automatically charged by ebay

[nerukas]

And i have asked ebay customer support if its the same rule for personal and business accounts. And the answer is yes. So even a person who is selling his own household things technically would need to provide vat number after reaching 10k. Its insane but guess ebay doesnt have any texhnique to split buainess or private sales.

[murdered_by_ebay]

this is the price for the UK leaving the EU , as long as the UK was in they were not able to pull a stunt like this because the UK government would have never allowed this.

[nerukas]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

this is the price for the UK leaving the EU , as long as the UK was in they were not able to pull a stunt like this because the UK government would have never allowed this.

Hehehe you think everything is aroind UK only? For your knowledge this EU directive was introduced 2017, and finalized in 2019 while UK was a full member of the EU.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by nerukas

Hehehe you think everything is aroind UK only? For your knowledge this EU directive was introduced 2017, and finalized in 2019 while UK was a full member of the EU.

of course but only with implementation after the UK leaves because UK would never allow this to run on it's soil , having about 8000 pounds VAT threshold down here would close down a significant portion of small businesses. UK is not that crazy while EU leadership doesn't give a damn because everything is done to the advantage of only 2 countries

[Aguero]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

if you sell from EU to EU there should be no VAT automatically charged by ebay

Yes, but I have an option to add % VAT manually. Should I add it ? I'm not familiar with the accountants stuff in the EU.

@nerukas

Hopefully eBay will not ask for VAT registration before 10k euro turnover.

[nerukas]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

of course but only with implementation after the UK leaves because UK would never allow this to run on it's soil , having about 8000 pounds VAT threshold down here would close down a significant portion of small businesses. UK is not that crazy while EU leadership doesn't give a damn because everything is done to the advantage of only 2 countries

Think you are confusing things and not entirwly know what you are talking about. 10k euros is for ONLY INTERNATIONEL sales, not internal. Internal country thresholds remain what they were. So no, the world ia not tuening only around UK

[nerukas]

Originally Posted by Aguero

Hopefully eBay will not ask for VAT registration before 10k euro turnover.

Before 10k no it.will not ask. So you need to monitor the sales

[Aguero]

Originally Posted by nerukas

Before 10k no it.will not ask. So you need to monitor the sales

I don't think they can lower this amount in the future when knowing what the Western European countries salaries are. And now it looks very groundless to me.

10k treshold is only for EU to EU sales. Yes, internal tresholds are individual for each EU country.

Do you know what are the required documents in order to get OSS number, excluding company ? Or what if I start to sell in the UK or US ?

[dune]

Originally Posted by Aguero

10k treshold is only for EU to EU sales. Yes, internal tresholds are individual for each EU country

I am in Spain and I think that the 10k threshold is:

1. In total sales globally (shipping and taxes included)

2. For 1 ID despites having 5 additional accounts under same ID (5 x 2k and you reach 10k)

Correct me if I am wrong

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by nerukas

Think you are confusing things and not entirwly know what you are talking about. 10k euros is for ONLY INTERNATIONEL sales, not internal. Internal country thresholds remain what they were. So no, the world ia not tuening only around UK

as far as I understand ebay will be looking at the turnover made from any EU customer

[Aguero]

Originally Posted by aorcat

I am in Spain and I think that the 10k threshold is:

1. In total sales globally (shipping and taxes included)

2. For 1 ID despites having 5 additional accounts under same ID (5 x 2k and you reach 10k)

Correct me if I am wrong

1. Not the sales globally. If you make sales to non-VAT registered buyers in any EU countries, and the combined total of those sales exceeds EUR 10,000 (£8,818), you will need to collect VAT in all EU countries based on the delivery address. To do this you will either have to register for VAT in each of the EU countries where you make sales, or use the EU VAT One Stop Shop (info - eBay.com).

2. Yes. You can sell up to EUR 10,000 on annual basis per person/ID. The period is probably from 01.01 to 31.12.
It is not so bad for small sellers, but for the big fishes I can't see a solution for the moment.

[Aguero]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

as far as I understand ebay will be looking at the turnover made from any EU customer

After what sales amount I'll need a VAT number if I start selling on co.uk ?

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Aguero

After what sales amount I'll need a VAT number if I start selling on co.uk ?

I think you will not need a VAT number if you are registered outside the UK as ebay will be charging VAT to all buyers automatically. unless of course the item location would be UK , in this case you would need a VAT number from the first cent

[dune]

Originally Posted by Aguero

1. Not the sales globally. If you make sales to non-VAT registered buyers in any EU countries, and the combined total of those sales exceeds EUR 10,000 (£8,818), you will need to collect VAT in all EU countries based on the delivery address. To do this you will either have to register for VAT in each of the EU countries where you make sales, or use the EU VAT One Stop Shop (info - eBay.com).

So if I sell in Spain and ship from Spain to US buyers (Most of my customers), the 10k threshold doesn't affect me as a private seller and I can pass that quantity of sales?.
I assume won't pass the 10k in EU buyers