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Old 04-09-2015
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Default Missing Withdrawal & PayPal lies

I have made a $1500 (30+million VND) withdrawal from my PayPal account to my Vietnamese bank account on March 9th 2015. The withdrawal reflected completed within 24-48hrs. However, it had been almost a month later, with countless of emails and phone calls and I had yet to receive a valid explanation of what happened to my funds.

*Throughout this 1 month, I was assigned to Mr. Ivan Arokiasamy, Escalations Department who is based in Malaysia, he has been personally attending to my case - unhelpfully.

For the past month, I have been in constant contact with my banker from ANZ Bank Vietnam numerous times, saved all my email logs with Ivan and recorded all our phone calls. It got up to a point where Ivan had to personally ring up my banker and speak to her as she has urged me of the urgency of this abnormal behavior by a financial institution - as there was no sign of my funds after all the datelines had passed, and Ivan was unable to provide us with any real tracking code, valid explanations, proof of his claims where my funds were already "successfully credited".

Ivan had claimed to receive confirmation that my bank as responded to them saying that the funds have been successfully credited into my account - citing this news in an email to me, along with a disbursement reference code. However, when I checked with my bank, there was no sign of my funds, no sign of pending funds, and also, the disbursement reference he provided was unrecognizable by my bank. When my bank urged me to push for a proof of statement that PayPal's partner bank had indeed successfully sent out the funds to my bank, Ivan mentioned in a recorded phone call, that he was unable to produce proof of the source of where he got this information from - citing company's protocol. But continues to insist that the funds had been confirmed to have been successfully credited. His claim was proven to be false.

Do not take your customers for a ride. We are educated people, this is clearly a blatant excuse and a waste of my time. Please do not tell me a huge financial institution like PayPal with a commanding market share would have a dodgy Payment Operations team which does not know what codes they are holding and what functions they have even after operating in the industry for more than 10 years.

Subsequently, Ivan provided me with another reference number which he claimed ANZ had responded and provided to PayPal after PayPal had initiated a "Special Investigation" trace on my missing funds. However, this was once again proven false. My bank had confirmed that neither PayPal nor their partner bank or anyone in particular had made any contact with ANZ regarding my account and funds, nor has ANZ's correspondence bank got in touch with the ANZ Vietnam HQ/branch regarding my account or missing funds. The reference number which PayPal provided was once again - proven to be invalid and no information could be retrieved.

My bank has specifically for a single basic proof from PayPal - the MT103 swift message. This is a universally recognized reference code which all banks are required provide to their senders for funds tracing. To users of PayPal, a MT103 swift code message is generated immediately after every successful remittance transfer. This MT103 code MUST be provided to the sender when requested, it is a swift message which allows the beneficiary bank to trace customer's funds. For international remittances, this code is the only code you will need to track your funds.

After I strongly demanded for it, Ivan said that he has put a request out to the relevant departments for the MT103 swift but 2 weeks on, he still has not received a reply from them. But the fact is that - as confirmed by my bank - it does not take more than 3 days for a bank to provide sender with this necessary information. In fact, in normal banking practices, it should usually only take up to a few hours or 1 day to retrieve. However, until today, the MT103 swift message was never provided to me. And Ivan simply let it pass.

*Ivan mentioned that PayPal has a heavy flow of transactions every day and so they are unable to operate efficiently, lose track of funds, not able to communicate with their Payments team efficiently, does not have a real timeframe for anything, not able to do anything to rectify situations even if the mistake lies with them, the only thing they were able to do was advising customers to wait, and surprisingly, finding the time to provide customers with bogus reference codes and information but when a real MT103 code is requested - suddenly all staff at Payment Ops go missing and does not reply to the Escalations department - and Escalations department does not have a phone or any other communication tool to liaise with them if Payments team decided not to reply or go MIA.

*Mr. Ivan Arokiasamy told me in one of our recorded phone conversations that he could have "washed his hands off this" but he made an exception not to this time. Are you implying that I should be grateful to you then? And what does he mean by this statement, PayPal? Do you think you are legally able to wash your hands off customers' missing funds, after I have proven not to receive my funds as you falsely claimed was already credited, taking up to 2 weeks and still not able to get your Payment Operations team to pass on the MT103 swift code to support your claim, unable to provide me with the name of your partner bank yet Ivan urged me to check with my bank for correspondence from your partner bank, every check and recheck and pointed to nothing. So do you you think that you have the right to wash your hands off this? No, you do not. Is PayPal's business model akin to collaborating with a dodgy partner bank and once it receives customer's funds and makes a profit out of it, washes their hands off what happens after. Is this legal? When situations like this arises, PayPal is quick to quote their User T&C - but my solicitor has already advised me that the User T&C does not negate the law. We are not suggesting that any part of your current T&C is in breach of any law/regulation, but if it did, implies, or is being taken advantage of (supported with evidences), acceptance of those terms does not make them legally enforceable.

PayPal is part of a huge company which should have the sufficient manpower, resources and tracking services needed to cater to the large chunk of transactions they take up daily. It is unacceptable to tell me that you do not have sufficient resources to cater to your large customer base and yet, you continue to mislead potential customers into placing more of their funds in you. Banks and financial institutions, regardless of their sizes, would have to have their required resources, services and manpower worked out and ensure they have the ability to guarantee customer's funds are safe and accounted for before they market their services into the industry.

*Since Ivan admitted that PayPal is unable to achieve these standards, why is this vital piece of inability not reinforced to let potential customers know before they decide if they are still willing to employ PayPal's services - I am very sure potential and even existing PayPal users would appreciate this piece of information.

*Ivan has reinforced to me that it is company's policy not to allow screenshots, proof of where he receives his information from, and he was not even permitted to send me proof of contact he claimed my bank had made to PayPal. For any financial institution and one as big as yours, don't you think that this is a clear abuse of power? A simple proof of statement of the transaction made to your partner bank and/or proof of statement that your partner bank has claimed to have made a successful transfer to my bank can be shown easily - it is a rather basic and reasonable request. Why are you taking customer's funds like they are your own and you are not able to be transparent about it? This is extremely unacceptable.

Because of a simple fact that PayPal believes after receiving customer's funds, they are protected by their user T&C and are able to do anything they wish to. Even if not rightfully so.

From limiting my account with $5000 in it the previous time for no valid reason, then requesting for all sorts of personal documentation to be sent before they lift my account limitation, finally resolved after a week - and now this. I have saved all my email logs from the first episode to this, and they were all mostly handled by Mr. Ivan Arokiasamy himself. I am beginning to suspect a conspiracy either between the staff at PayPal, or the partner bank and PayPal - it could also be the fact that PayPal's staff might have a form of incentive to withhold customer's funds for as long as they can - it is fair for me to make such a suspicion as I feel that I have exhausted all reasonable methods of resolving this dispute with you and up till today, I am not even sure when my funds will reach my hands.

Last edited by TGMT²; 04-09-2015 at 09:35 PM. Reason: TMI
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Old 12-28-2015
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Default Re: Missing Withdrawal & PayPal lies

Same thing happened to me. Twice. One for about $400 and one for $100. Both times my bank told me that there were no incoming money coming from Paypal and that Paypal would raise an "investigation".

Is it a coincidence that this happens to Vietnamese Paypal accounts?
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