Browser Fingerprinting

[donkeykong2012]

I understand Amazon uses Browser Fingerprinting and can read MAC addresses but EBay does not.

I have never sold on Amazon btw.

What I do not understand is, what if EBay uses this technology at sometime in the future? This could be introduced with little warning?

Won't this compromise eBay Stealth accounts overnight if it came into affect?

Surely this is a concern and precautions must be taken?

Maybe I am missing something here, but if serious money is to be invested in an online business this needs to be considered?

Or maybe I am thinking too hard at this time of night?

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by donkeykong2012

can read MAC addresses

A lot of debate has gone on about this. A lot of people seem to think they can, but nothing has ever been confirmed. Just rumours and speculation.

[donkeykong2012]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

A lot of debate has gone on about this. A lot of people seem to think they can, but nothing has ever been confirmed. Just rumours and speculation.

I must admit I thought that as well.

I have never sold anything on Amazon, I have heard from other sellers however.

[TGMT²]

Originally Posted by donkeykong2012

What I do not understand is, what if EBay uses this technology at sometime in the future? This could be introduced with little warning?

This will not really be an issue for most here that have established stealth accounts in good standing.

AND: If it does happen sometime in the future, we already have the tools to beat it.

[jeffweico]

If you want to see an example of browser fingerprinting, go here:

https://panopticlick.eff.org/

To answer DonkeyKong2012's original question, YES, eBay or any other site could implement this in the future and they would not be likely to issue a press release about it. My personal way of using stealth it to remove ANY risk of linking, no matter how small, on all of my accounts. A lot of people say this is overkill, but I sleep better at night knowing that I am doing everything possible to avoid losing accounts.

Look at it this way. If you take the few extra steps, and eBay never implements it, what have you lost? Nothing, but a little bit of time and money.

On the other hand, let's say you don't take the extra steps and eBay flips the switch and turns it on. What have you lost then? Potentially several good accounts.

I know which one I would prefer!

[glacier922]

@jeffweico,

So this means you switch Mac addresses?

[JRaynor101]

There's a huge amount of misinformation about MAC addressing. There is absolutely no way that a website or external server can see your MAC address. That is not how MAC addressing works, that's not what it's for and that's not how networking works. eBay and the likes can see your IP, just as it's extremely easy for you to see eBay's server's IP addresses. Just as you can't see their MAC, they can't see yours.

Without boring everyone to death explaining the OSI model, the bottom line is that no packets/transmission which contain the MAC as an identifier get sent externally from the router. You, as a user, have to give permission through an applet, like a Java or ActiveX script, explicitly allowing your MAC to be transmitted.

And to bore those interested: MAC addresses are OSI layer 2 packets for single hops to identify the source and destination of a packet in a local framework, whereas IP addresses are Layer 3 and these remain static from source all the way to the final destination. As such, the Layer 2 addresses are stripped by the router after the first hop (computer-router, if you have a router) and replaced with Layer 2 packets relevant for the next transmission (router-modem). The modem again strips the layer 2 packet MAC addresses because they are unnecessary for communication further, and gets new source/destination addresses. From here it depends on your connection, but it'll often be either PPPoA or encapsulation with Ethernet and PPPoE (There's a million and one other ways to do it, varying from country to country and connection type to connection type). Either way, they're sent to an endpoint where an ATM will again strip the Layer 2 addresses and be replaced with different, local MAC addresses at the ultimate destination which are relevant to that network. That's a massively simplification of how it works considering the number of nodes any transmission goes thriough, which you can check yourself using either traceroute or a website that does it for you.

[MM78]

That's pretty much how it is JRaynor101, although I do agree with you 100% Amazon is usually the one site that constantly comes up with MAC Addressing conversations. My guess is that Amazon is either doing Browser Fingerprinting or something similar.

Here's an article I found for those interested in Device Fingerprinting:
Top Websites Secretly Track Your Device Fingerprint - IEEE Spectrum

[jeffweico]

Originally Posted by glacier922

@jeffweico,

So this means you switch Mac addresses?

No. I use a different PC or Laptop for each set of accounts.

1 PC = 1 Identity with 1 eBay, 1 PayPal and 1 Amazon.

They all have different internet connections, etc.

A more expensive way to do it, to be sure, but the cost is not that bad. I buy used PC's and laptops for about $100 each and use internet connections that cost maybe $30 or $40 per month each. Add ten bucks for a phone and miscellaneous and voila - SAFE STEALTH!

[donkeykong2012]

Originally Posted by JRaynor101

There's a huge amount of misinformation about MAC addressing. There is absolutely no way that a website or external server can see your MAC address. That is not how MAC addressing works, that's not what it's for and that's not how networking works. eBay and the likes can see your IP, just as it's extremely easy for you to see eBay's server's IP addresses. Just as you can't see their MAC, they can't see yours.

Without boring everyone to death explaining the OSI model, the bottom line is that no packets/transmission which contain the MAC as an identifier get sent externally from the router. You, as a user, have to give permission through an applet, like a Java or ActiveX script, explicitly allowing your MAC to be transmitted.

And to bore those interested: MAC addresses are OSI layer 2 packets for single hops to identify the source and destination of a packet in a local framework, whereas IP addresses are Layer 3 and these remain static from source all the way to the final destination. As such, the Layer 2 addresses are stripped by the router after the first hop (computer-router, if you have a router) and replaced with Layer 2 packets relevant for the next transmission (router-modem). The modem again strips the layer 2 packet MAC addresses because they are unnecessary for communication further, and gets new source/destination addresses. From here it depends on your connection, but it'll often be either PPPoA or encapsulation with Ethernet and PPPoE (There's a million and one other ways to do it, varying from country to country and connection type to connection type). Either way, they're sent to an endpoint where an ATM will again strip the Layer 2 addresses and be replaced with different, local MAC addresses at the ultimate destination which are relevant to that network. That's a massively simplification of how it works considering the number of nodes any transmission goes thriough, which you can check yourself using either traceroute or a website that does it for you.

I suspected this as well.

Amazon Ghost does make a big deal about it though.

[tmastermind]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

No. I use a different PC or Laptop for each set of accounts.

1 PC = 1 Identity with 1 eBay, 1 PayPal and 1 Amazon.

They all have different internet connections, etc.

A more expensive way to do it, to be sure, but the cost is not that bad. I buy used PC's and laptops for about $100 each and use internet connections that cost maybe $30 or $40 per month each. Add ten bucks for a phone and miscellaneous and voila - SAFE STEALTH!

This is exactly my stealth philosophy as far as Amazon is concerned but usually I will have about 3 ebay/pp accounts on the same laptop using different logins and different SIMs in the same dongle. I have 3 laptops now so that's 3 Amazon accounts and 9 eBay ones. That's about as much as I can handle administratively anyway.

[Peopletogo]

for change MAC ADRESS it's more simple make than ask...if search on google cn find more and more and more software free can change our real MAC ADRESS!