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Why the Hivemind?
 

The forum has a BIG problem with hive mind like consensus to questions posed in the forum. When a question is asked I rarely see out of the box thinking and when I do see it, the hive mind teams up against those who oppose their way of thinking. Why is this happening?

I have seen it go as far as ridiculing and alienating others to a point where it lowers participation.

How can we stop this from happening?

The forum was created to help formulate new ideas, bring in out of the box thinkers and not to turn them away. It's when we have other points of view that our way of thinking grows.

What can we do to turn things around?

re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Can you give us a couple of example threads?

re: Why the Hivemind?
 

This is an overall problem, not limited to specific threads but here is a recent one: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...-increase.html

And another: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...ly-reason.html

OP may have a point or is thinking out of the box but it doesn't seem to matter if it goes against the hivemind way of thinking. Why is this happening?

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I think that we are all guilty of this to some degree. The thing is, we each have our own firsthand experience when dealing with eBay/PayPal/Amazon and it is hard for us to accept others' experiences as valid.

The second part of it is members seeing hivemind and piling on. They read, for example, that we are totally against using a family member's information and then jump on the bandwagon when posting.

For me, I read the thread and thought that yes, using someone's information rather than stealth information is not a good thing, especially is the person is doing something shady, like selling counterfeits. But that is different from two people going into business together. That may or may not be a good idea, but it is really not the focus of the forum and these are two separate things.

What can be done about it, I don't know. I'll think about it.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I have done experimenting with things that aren't promoted in the forum - both legit and illegit...I don't share everything because yes, there are things that don't work and it is seen in the questions that come out. Lots of questions come out about counterfeits and using real people info which is not in the nature of the forum.

About the ridiculing and alienating...that's just plain wrong but threads do aim to minimize problems especially for the new users. Of course there's more involved but it's one way of looking at things - just keep it simple for the new people who read the threads.

I haven't finished this train of thought yet (long drive, just arrived) but there will be more to follow.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

While that's great making things easy for new users, the forum is more than just a support portal. It's for formulating new ideas. The hivemind tends to want to shut that down quickly. And that alienates those who want to push the boundaries and find new ways to do things. I'm one of those that like to push the boundaries and find all possible ways to get things done. If I didn't set this forum up I feel I would have a hard time adding to the conversation for fear of being ridiculed for not going along with the flow of things. This has to be the case for others..

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

That's perfectly fine and that's where constructive discussions are formulated. You don't have to agree with everything a person says (I rarely do) but to openly rebuke a person (not saying you do this but the hivemind) and to close yourself to other possibilities is not only a personal problem but when it's brought to the forum overtly and prominently it becomes a forum problem. The hivemind is doing this..

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I always like to think outside the box. I've tried and tested the boundries over and over again. I'm thinking it boils down to forum rep. They just shoot you down IE: you don't know nothing because you don't have hours of activity or thousands of posts. Alright I will act like I don't know anything and keep my posts to myself!

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

also alot of people on forum don't want certain things to get out in fear of people burning up their methods so this in turn can lead to "hivemind" as well. understandable tho... cant just give away everything you know especially things you discover the hard way through error n trials etc...

:juggle::pop2::bounce:

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

From what I have seen there are a lot of the more 'senior members' that have a tendency to try and intimidate new users, not only them but some other users as well, granted.

Getting a straight answer is like gold dust :lol: (I know I am not the only person who feels that this is the case)

I don't know why when someone posts something simple, it turns into a full scale debate between contributors as to who's right and who's wrong. Answer the question originally posted and help the OP make an informed decision.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

This is not true. There's some stuff that can be outside the box and not get burnt up!

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I agree Mike sometimes yes... seems people come here looking for all the answers to their problems without even doing a lick of research sometimes which can be kind of annoying. a lot of answers you will not get straight forward except for the basics...:violin:

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

In the inside scoop thread, the OP riled other users with an attitude. He did some smart editing that amended the final words.

In the family friend thread, status of doing this changed since the book was written. Responses were more of attempting to protect OP.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Yes, I read the threads. I participated in the threads. As mentioned already, 'This is an overall problem, not limited to specific threads'

To say it's the OP fault isn't an answer. That's not the problem. The problem is the hivemind mentality that is closed off to new ideas and out of the box thinking. And this way of thinking isn't being checked... Hmm...

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Answer this then:

Background..... couple of years back a refund of .01 cent meant paypal funds got released.

This forum managed to avoid broadcasting it to all in sundry. Nevertheless, it eventually got closed.

What is going to happen when the new ideas and workarounds become brandied about all over the forum?

Is that not giving an edge to ebay/paypal/amazon?

Forum is a whole bunch of people whose first thoughts are for themselves. That leads to hivemind mentality.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Okay, I think I found the problem. Lol. :)

Dang it, GB.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

like rsot -Partly through necessity or curiousity, Ive ignored the concensus on alot of stuff and it has worked out, in fact I cannot think of anything I tried that did not work out.....I sometimes give counter advice to the consensus and whilst I always give them the risk/reward balance, I see alot of 'dont do it' posts...but I understand that a forum has to give best and safest advice, but balance and thinking outside the box inc. a warning of risk is a really helpful alternative and discussions should not be shut down if on legit lines...

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I agree only so much can be shared out in the open. :spy:

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

There is also another issue that contributes to the Hivemind mentality of other members responses that I do not see a solution for, other than Deletion,,,and that is Bona Fide Bad Information, I have seen it over and over, again and again, a Member Posts a flat out incorrect respose to an issue in a thread, or even worse defends it as if it were a stone cold fact, so yes if other members gang up on such a member who makes such a post, in my view its understandable, and also you must realize that such a situation is a VERY common occurance

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Most of the people do have what you call "out of the box ideas" or interesting thoughts but they just dont want to share them because of the huge competition in this area.
I wouldn't share some of my ideas for free for sure, same as most of the forum members wouldn't even bother answering some simple questions if i'll not pay them. The whole idea of sharing is nice but we live in a different reality.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

u got that right just found out one good trick for making an ebay acc

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I understand that people do not wish to share certain techniques and methods, and that's right to do that, but it seems when people ask questions a lot of people either;

1. Don't read it and post quickly
2. Ridicule the person for doing or asking something
3. Post generic answers which are not in the slightest bit helpful. Like Callidus said 4. A lot of forums on the internet are guilty for this, but people just say to use the search bar. This is sometimes correct, and some people don't use search function, however i'm guessing a lot have. When you search for something specific in the search, usually an exact cannot be found due to people doing #3 or the thread is very old, and as such no longer relevant.

This is my experience as a new member. Some older members have been very helpful and nice, however some seem to just post cryptic messages and lead users on a merry chase. It's fine to not want to post your methods, but if you're not going to share it, why bother posting anything about it at all. I feel you should either post it, PM them or don't post at all. What is the point posting subtle hints about certain methods? If you're doing it so "outsiders" don't see the method, well how is the "noob" suppose to understand what you're saying too.

Even though I haven't seen it posted here, i'm sure some people care about their post count. I haven't been active on any forums for around 4-5 years, however used to be a Moderator on two forums, one smaller than this community and one bigger with vast amounts of trading. We had members just posting useless crap to higher their post count. People thought that the higher their post count, the higher "member" they are in the community, when really people just hated their useless spam all over the forum (posting generic answers, in my eyes is just spam to get post count up).

• Arrogant new users or bull****ters deserve to be put down, but 99% of new users posting are just naive and should be guided, and if they post something wrong or silly, should be told why. People never learn unless you tell them why they're wrong. If someone was to tell me i'm wrong, I wouldn't accept or respect that answer unless they tell me why i'm wrong.
  
• Criticism is useless because it makes new posters scared or put off by posting questions (this is how i felt, not scared, but I thought i'm probably not going to get an answer, or get someone try and berate me in front of everyone).
  
• Criticism is good IF you turn it from criticism into constructive criticism. If you feel someone is wrong, tell them why they're wrong.
  
• I know some people feel it's wrong to give people all the answers after you have worked hard to obtain them through experience, but I feel it's wrong to tease people and lead them on a merry goose chase for asking a question.
  
• People complain here that's hard to get an answer from Amazon, eBay and Paypal when you ask them something, but a lot of the time it's like that here because some members who people everywhere, just give a genetic answer like it's posted from a script like one of those call workers, or live chat people.
  
• Certain things get posted over and over again, and it can seem it's fair to post a generic response to that. The problem is, these questions need to be posted over and over again. One question has so many answers because the answer changes due to a persons country, selling patterns, when they're asking (old answers in search function), what they're selling, how much they're selling it for and many other things. Everyone as a person is different, and everyone eBay situation is different too.
  
• Also sometimes people give false information (usually when it's answering a question from a country they have no experience with), which is much worse than not posting anything at all. I think if you give an answer, you should say how you got that answer (just like in maths ;)) even if it's from experience, say it's from my experience doing this.

First impressions are important. I found this site from google, as do most people, and if people see rudeness etc, they might be put off.

I think it's good to have this in a community: New users should look up to old members, but old members should not look down upon new users.

You can take this post how you like, as a new member, these were my experiences thus far. I personally like these forums, however they are the my honest feelings.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

When I was at University it really bugged a lot of people, myself included, when the tutors wouldn't give us straight answers and almost seemed to make it difficult and impossible to progress by not telling us everything we needed to know.

By Year 3 it made sense, you have to work it out yourself, and only then will you mentally progress and learn.

People want answers all too easy these days, they don't want to do the research, they just want the info they need and sod the rest of it.

I truly do believe that you can only learn and progress if you are willing to put the time and effort into learning.

Any flack new members seem to get is because people who have been through that tough learning process and have invested their time and/or money into being successful aren't going to just give people the answers for nothing, you have to show a bit of willing.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I agree with this. I think you need to be somewhere in the middle, rather than post generic hints or answers, it's better to give someone most of the answer (or all) and then show them where or how they can get the rest of the answer, rather than writing something cryptic which leads to about 10 posts of crap.

This was my experience at University too, although some tutors really were lazy. I didn't like having to do things myself, and I wanted to be told the answer, however once undertaking a task and completing it, my experience and knowledge gained was better than if I was just told the answer.

I guess the problem here is that if you don't tell someone the answer, they cannot go and do it themselves on eBay etc. Or they do go and do it and lose their account. It's hard because a lot of people posting need eBay for their rent etc.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Thanks for the feedback. I can understand both sides, those who are active everyday for years who see the same questions over and over again and those brand new to the forum. After awhile new members are just a source of pain to older well established members. Maybe we need to introduce something new, maybe an active eBay news section or general eCommerce news section to take a break from stealth? That would be interesting. Or a focus on other connecting subjects. Hmmm.

You didn't go to Leeds Met did you? LOL, yes, lazy tutors was true for me too, I guess they like to sit back and see who will succeed and who will fall on their *rse.

I have noticed the cryptic replies and when you haven't a clue what you are doing it doesn't help, but gradually I think you get there... If Aspkin wants to generate more users (which I presume is what he wants) it's going to be hard to do without giving secrets away on the open forum. Maybe an FAQ section could be added for subscribed members only, giving them a little more useful info?

It's a difficult one..

N.B There is also the problem of a few smart *rse's who get a kick out of putting people down and enjoy "getting one over on them", not much you can do about that as that's normal on any forum!

I meant to add, respect should be shown to "the elders", which generally isn't and that can cause conflict.

I can't image the amount of time some users spend on here contributing, answering questions and participating in the chat etc.. it's a full time job in itself.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I'm from the south of England, but from my experience at University it seemed around 50% could be bothered and actually cared, the other 50% just wanted to collect their pay check.

I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest. I think it's fine to not share everything you know, like certain tricks that are more like bugs than general things everyone should know. That's fine to have, on the forum I mentioned being on before there was a very useful trick in the subject area of the forum, and only certain members knew how to do it, and they were allowed to do this "trick" for other users for a small fee.

Obviously stuff like the 0.01 refund, can't be done because people will just see what you have done.

On the forum we had different classes for members, and it was a great way to encourage new users, and old to help others. I see you have normal, stealth, mod and admin here, but we had a few more too.

We had people who had special badges next to their name, but didn't have any extra powers on the forum, but it was used as a good way for others to respect and trust them in deals. You could have different badges like this to encourage users to help others and earn them. It benefits the person because they're more respected and if they're a trader, can trade easier and it helps the new members and the whole forum to stay alive and active. We had:

• Normal members (new people)
• VIP - (Paid $2/ month to donate) basically like your stealth members
• I can't remember the name of this one, but it was something for members who were active for like 3-6 months, those that help others and post good answers everyday.
• Trusted Members - This was for people usually who did all of the above, and traded with other members (like your account sellers) for 6-12 months and then became trusted members.
• Moderators - All of the above, doesn't need to trade, though, however a user who has been around for years helping others. Someone who you can trust.
• Admins - obvious.
• You could probably have certain unique badges for a few people i.e. if someone specializes in US eBay, wholesale, importation from china, japan etc they can have a unique badge. Then members can trust their answers are correct, and can PM them sometimes too.
• Have areas of the forums for VIP members only to see, post and read. Have an area where only trusted members and above can see, post and read too.

Some more suggestions

• These things above were voted on by all the higher members in their own secret part of the forums every 3 months or so and a couple of members were promoted. A post was made in the news section at the top for all members to see and the new promoted members were congratulated. This showed other members what they need to do for them to be promoted next time too.
• Some incentives for people to have help others like I have mentioned is good, and nothing that can be bought. I have seen this work first hand, and of course is just a suggestion. This helps getting more traffic to the site, and more users. It's important to let users do what they want (within reason) and not ban them from posting or talking about certain topics. It just pushes them away and they won't post at all.
• The VIP sections, or in this case people who have bought stealth can see pinned topics about what are the best programs to do certain things. For example I wanted to see what are the best programs to resize many images at once. There could be pinned topics made by helpful members who have made tutorial and reviews on certain products or programs that have helped them do stealth.
• People could be allowed to have small signatures under their posts which allow them to have small graphics that are there for show, or can hyperlink to there account shop etc. You can then have other members who can use photoshop selling these signatures for $5 or something. It's a way for newer members to grow and gain trust. There is no way for new members to come here to trade, only old ones. You might get scams, but if you limit other members to $5 or something, then it will decrease it a lot.
• An "Arcade" section where people can play a few games on the site, like tetris, pacman, snake etc, then their high score will be posted next to the game and if a new high score is broken, it can go along a banner at the top of the site above the shoutbox. This is a good way to keep people on the site once they have come here and maybe gotten bored. You can then have a scoreboard for each game, and an overall score board of which members have the most high scores. This can be shown as a badge next to their name if they are ranked 1-10 or something. It will advertise it to new users who see their posts. This is the internet, and a lot of people love games.

It doesn't sound much, but people appreciate some gratitude for doing good work, and it encourages people to be nice to others and give good answers.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

In my opinion,from my experience as a new member i would suggest to stop make threads readable for subscribed users. Unless you got some serious information that impossible to find without wasting a lot of time. Make this forum free and you will see a huge increase in traffic. On the other hand if you really want to raise your profit, pay more people to analyze what information should be hidden, im about to find my last answer and im done here coz 95% of the info repeats itself and there's rarely something useful.
aspkin you got enough traffic to start bringing more methods and sections, maybe someday you will become bigger then blackhatworld.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I have added a few suggestions to my post. I might have made a few mistakes with my English as I always do, but it should be readable. I will proof read it soon and clarify if anything doesn't make much sense.

if we are talking about what would make the forum nore appealing, I think you should get rid of the ebay stealth adverts that pop up when you click a thread.

Once you've learned stealth their really is no need for the book. It slows me down and I usually just close the browser instead of replying.

For the same reaaon I've never been a fan of youtube.

Also, I like the idea of an arcade. I am the master of snake.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

Personally from the very beginning till now since I've been on this forum, I always use the search button here in every way I can. That is the only way to get answers. I have other ways off this forum but they are minimal.
It still is very hard to give up what I've found here in bits and pieces. I think and know that 90% of the questions asked have been answer a trillion times here! Just a pile of lazy people out there.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

This ^^^

When I joined, I didn't even have an account. I lurked around for a while then bought the book and had to piece info in since eb/pp/amazon was changing constantly.

Even with the current and updated topics, some newer members are confused. Thats understandable.

The ones that tend to tick me off are the newer members skating around issues of selling ill.egal items, scamming people and how to find suppliers info that each one of us had to gather to get where we are today. They do not take the time to learn the community and want to be spoon fed. :smash:

Then when we tell them to use the search function, we become all sorts of so and so.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

I agree with BigCJ, I also enjoy those who are new but some how feel that starting with 10/1,000 limits are beneath them and how dare this forum subject them to starting with those types of limits! Or those who are not patient enough to work their accounts....

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

It's an issue of people' personality emotionally. Most old timers here think they are gods. Sorry if you don't see it this way, but they do.

What can you do about it admin? Give them warnings that is all. Everybody nomatter how old are you in the game can always learn new things and stop being so rude. Measure you words or apologize. The excuse always is " well I'm this way and that's how I am " ( well then goodluck living like that. What can new people do? Don't pay any attention to them. Take it like if it was just air blowing in your face for a minute and you start to breath new air for the rest of the day.

Yeah some want to be spoon fed, but don't talk to them aggresively. Just tell them to search around the topics. As a forum you will always have repeating questions because people like interacting in live time.

Info to admin: old and new people will always come and go, but to keep your forum up and running with traffic you have to upgrae the website make perks, vip memberships with interesting perks that new people would want to sign up for. Make subscribed forums not accessible to free users only paid. I like the current layout of the website and color it's easy to read and quick. I use to frequent years ago an incentivized forum that became really popular and very low traffic goes to it now because they didn't keep it up to date. Everybody has a right to speak what they want, but people don't lay out your hardcore emotions on to others it's not right unless they do something bad to you then you can say what you want to them.

It's not good to give people info so easy also because it doesn't teach them to appreciate it, but hey we live in a current world where people don't appreaciate and want things quick. They must learn like I did that patience is the key.

Re: Why the Hivemind?
 

It is a very nice analytical read your post - fresh ideas relatively speaking :)