US Election 2016

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by EWHendo

I did not say that anyone who supports Trump is a racist. What I said is that anyone who supports Trump is condoning racism. You don't have to share every trait with the person you vote for, but by voting for them you are condoning their views / actions.

There is a difference between being racist and voting for a racist leader. Personally, I cannot fathom condoning a leader who is blatantly racist.

What you actually said was:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Voting for Trump is advocating racism

Remember the bit I said earlier about people posting words when they don't understand the words meaning..........?


SO......you are now saying it is possible to:

Support racism, speak in favour of racism, endorse racism, sanction racism, commend racism, recommend racism, suggest being racist, support the cause of racism........

Without being a racist?

WOW......your ignorance never ceases to amaze me.

[phaz0rz]

CEO's and other executives at large companies get paid the most because THEY DESERVE IT. Executives are usually people who helped start a company are those who worked for years to get to the position they're in. They work the hardest. They are the ones who run the company, who have the most responsibility, and who deserve to be paid executive salaries. In any company the more responsibility, the higher your wages. If there were no incentive to strive for those executive salaries, companies would go to $hit.

It makes me want to pull my hair out when fast food employees demand to be paid $15 an hour because they "deserve it". These employees are dispensable, come and go frequently, and have absolutely no loyalty to the company they work for. They have no real concept of responsibility or even any idea of how businesses operate (for the most part). But they "deserve" twice their current pay without any increased responsibility. They aren't able to understand how competitive the fast food industry is. If Mcdonalds were actually forced by the government to pay $15/hour to everyone, half of Mcdonalds work force would have to be laid off or the company would go bankrupt...

Redistributing wealth in any way is communist economics. USA has never been purely capitalist, but we don't need to be any more communist than we already are.

If "the average worker" is really so upset about what they're being paid, they should pursue what used to be known as "the American dream." At the first and only job I had working for someone else I worked 60+ hours weekly for a local businessman and got paid $5/hour under the table. I never complained though. I was happy with the experience I got learning how to run a business first hand. ANYBODY can start a business and become rich (for now, at least), but the average American today would rather b*t*h and moan about their boss.

Sorry for the rant. Wanted to explain my side.

[EWHendo]

Yes, absolutely. Think about it from another perspective if you don't understand this example.

I can advocate in favor of gay marriage, without being gay myself.

I can be an advocate for proper treatment of an ill relative, without being ill myself.

I can advocate for my favorite baseball team to sign a left-handed pitcher, without being left-handed myself.

My wider point is this:
People seem to say that they support Trump based on his economic policies and business experience. These same people may not be racist. Donald Trump may have business experience, and also be racist. Therefore, by voting for Trump, who has both traits, even if it is only for one of the reasons, is advocating for racism. You don't get to pick and choose which policies of a president you are voting for.

[realdeals]

Hendo you are talking rubbish, as usual. Your analogies are not even remotely relevant.

Keep it up though it is entertainment for the forum.

Oh have you paid the people you owe money to on ebay yet? Or are you just waiting for those 40 cases to be opened up against you before you scrape together the money to pay?

[EWHendo]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

CEO's and other executives at large companies get paid the most because THEY DESERVE IT. Executives are usually people who helped start a company are those who worked for years to get to the position they're in. They work the hardest. They are the ones who run the company, who have the most responsibility, and who deserve to be paid executive salaries. In any company the more responsibility, the higher your wages. If there were no incentive to strive for those executive salaries, companies would go to $hit.

It makes me want to pull my hair out when fast food employees demand to be paid $15 an hour because they "deserve it". These employees are dispensable, come and go frequently, and have absolutely no loyalty to the company they work for. They have no real concept of responsibility or even any idea of how businesses operate (for the most part). But they "deserve" twice their current pay without any increased responsibility. They aren't able to understand how competitive the fast food industry is. If Mcdonalds were actually forced by the government to pay $15/hour to everyone, half of Mcdonalds work force would have to be laid off or the company would go bankrupt...

Redistributing wealth in any way is communist economics. USA has never been purely capitalist, but we don't need to be any more communist than we already are.

If "the average worker" is really so upset about what they're being paid, they should pursue what used to be known as "the American dream." At the first and only job I had working for someone else I worked 60+ hours weekly for a local businessman and got paid $5/hour under the table. I never complained though. I was happy with the experience I got learning how to run a business first hand. ANYBODY can start a business and become rich (for now, at least), but the average American today would rather b*t*h and moan about their boss.

Sorry for the rant. Wanted to explain my side.

No need to apologize for your rant. I think your ideals are in the right place. I'm not in support of just handing out a comfortable life to people for nothing. The issue I would take with your thinking is that it is based on something that doesn't hold true anymore. I don't think that the wage inequality that exists is based on hard work or responsibility. Take a look at this:

In between 1978 and 2014, inflation-adjusted CEO pay increased by almost 1,000%, according to a report released on Sunday by the Economic Policy Institute. Meanwhile, typical workers in the U.S. saw a pay raise of just 11% during that same period.

With these increases in mind, it should come as no surprise that the ratio between average American CEO pay and worker pay is now 303-to-1. This ratio is lower than its peak in 2000, when it was 376-to-1, but it’s in excess of the 1965 ratio of 20-to 1.


So using your logic, are today's CEOs working almost 1000% harder than they were in 1978? Do you really believe that they are working 303 times harder than their employees?

The other issue I would take with your point is that it is realistic to think that the "American Dream" still exists. While I think it is very noble that you worked 60 hours a week for $5 under the table, it is also selling yourself short. The "American Dream" is based on the idea that if you work hard, you can support a comfortable life for yourself and your family. The reality is that the cost of housing, food, medical coverage, secondary education, and other necessities has been rising at a far higher rate than wages.

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Yes, absolutely. Think about it from another perspective if you don't understand this example.

I can advocate in favor of gay marriage, without being gay myself.

I can be an advocate for proper treatment of an ill relative, without being ill myself.

I can advocate for my favorite baseball team to sign a left-handed pitcher, without being left-handed myself.

The reason your analogies are pure nonsense is because your examples are all choices that one can make with free will.

Racism is a deep built in belief system, a prejudice. Therefore can NEVER be an action of choice.

So your examples are flawed. Anyone who ADVOCATES racism is a racist, as it is not something that is an option but a fundamental part of who that person is.

[EWHendo]

Really RealDeals?

You can't choose whether or not to be racist?
You're either born racist or not?

Even if you were raised in an environment in which you were ingrained with racism, you can still make the choice to educate yourself, think openly, and change your mind about things. You are also making a choice not to do so, if you don't.

You are an adult (presumably). You are responsible for yourself, your actions, your thoughts and your beliefs. Being unwilling to assess and change yourself is a choice. It is however, a matter of will. I was raised in a Christian church. When I reached the age at which I could analyze the beliefs that were ingrained in me, I rejected what I had been taught in favor of evidence and logic. Anyone with a fully-functioning mind can do the same.

Trying to claim that one just can't help being racist, sexist or prejudicial in anyway is never going to fly with me. It is dodging taking responsibility for yourself, and putting the blame on external factors. Even if I humor the idea that racism is so ingrained it cannot be overcome, it is still a choice to behave in a racist manner. By all means, you can think that anyone of another race is 1000 times inferior to yourself. You have the liberty to think that all you want. However, when your actions affect others in a way that reflects that, there is a problem. You have CHOSEN to behave in that way. The way you behave all day every day is a CHOICE.

Take responsibility for yourself. I believe in all of you. You can choose to be who you want to be, you can choose to base your actions on logic, you can choose to believe what you want to believe. You can overcome the deficiencies of your upbringing, if you were to have them. You can do it, because everything you do is a choice.

[realdeals]

Of course racism isn't a choice.

You can't just turn on and off being a racist, either you are or you are not.

The ONLY way to stop a racist being a racist is by challenging and debating their ideology by education. However some fundamentals are ingrained too deeply in the individual and so the majority of times attempts to change mindsets will be futile.

[rsot]

This thread is becoming everything we had hoped it would - spicy and mudslinging

[phaz0rz]

A·mer·i·can dream
noun
noun: American dream; plural noun: American dreams
the ideal that every US citizen should have an equal opportunity to achieve success and prosperity through hard work, determination, and initiative.

Key word there being initiative. Nobody reaches their full potential by working their entire life for another person. The American Dream, as I interpret it, is achieving success by doing something on your own (e.g. starting a business).

The reason CEO's are paid a lot more now than they were in the 60's is because much more companies now operate on a global scale. In the 60's we barely had telephones so companies were mostly much smaller, therefore profits were limited. Doing business on a global scale means a lot more profits. I have no doubt CEO's are now working 1000% than they were 60 years ago. The people on top are the ones running the global enterprise so they deserve the lion's share of the profits. It's their company. It's not like some store clerk in Seattle is having to speak with a translator to resolve a problem in a Hong Kong office... that's what the people who make the big bucks deal with.

I accepted the terrible wage I made for a few reason. First off I was 14 when I started, lol. But the guy I worked for is a self-made millionaire who manages several local businesses. He's done well for himself and I wanted to learn what he knew, because I've always wanted to own a business. I learned the basics from him at a young age and applied what I learned to the internet

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by rsot

This thread is becoming everything we had hoped it would - spicy and mudslinging

[dan_ebay]

Originally Posted by EWHendo

So using your logic, are today's CEOs working almost 1000% harder than they were in 1978? Do you really believe that they are working 303 times harder than their employees?

Its not about working 303 times harder its about who makes the $$$$ for the company (obviously, the owner/shareholders/whatever don't pay high ranking employees lots of money for a laugh).

E.g mcdonalds worker might fuk up the odd burger and cost the $1 in lost revenue.
High ranking employee might fuk up on where to open 50 stores or trash a load of money on wasteful advertising and cost them millions so the high ranking employee gets a lot of money so that they can get the best people for the job.

People set their own wages, if nobody wants to work in mcdonalds for $10 a hour then the wages go up. If lots of people have the talent to be a 'ceo' or whatever then their wages will go down

[spindoctor]

Who needs tellyvision.... We have aspkin forums!

[RosieTosie]

Trump is a joke, go Hilary!!!!

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by RosieTosie

Trump is a joke, go Hilary!!!!

Hilary didn't even know what her own husband was up to behind her back! So what chance has she got of dealing with ISIS, Russia, N.Korea, China and Syria?

[spindoctor]

Originally Posted by realdeals

Hilary couldn't didn't even know what her own husband was up to behind her back! So what chance has she got of dealing with ISIS, Russia N.Korea, China and Syria?

About as much Use as David Cameron running the UK.

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by spindoctor

About as much Use as David Cameron running the UK.

Best leader our country has had since the great Thatcher, although he hasn't had much competition.

[rsot]

Good segway into UK politics

[phaz0rz]

Originally Posted by RosieTosie

Trump is a joke, go Hilary!!!!

Hilary is a fraud.

Trump's campaign started as joke but has become more serious now that he has a chance.

The main reason I support him is the self-financed aspect of his campaign. The last 10 elections have gone to the candidate who raises the most money by promising stuff to corporate donors. So when they become president they are silently loyal to the special interests which support them, and not the the citizens.

It's refreshing to see a candidate run a campaign the way they want. He hasn't promised $hit to anyone and he's still ahead.

[rsot]

He's so flagrant and uncouth that it's real.

I wonder how the latino and ethnic vote will sort out though if he secures the Republican nomination.

[phaz0rz]

Yes, and real is good. I'm sooooo glad Marco Rubio has finally dropped out. Marco would talk at a campaign event for an hour and not say a single thing. Just kept repeating the same punch lines he thought would lead him to victory. Tons of Americans hate Trump but at least he talks out of his mouth instead of his @ss.

I think there's no doubt most minority votes will go to Hillary. But now that democrats aren't trying to elect the first "black" president, their voter turnout has gone to $hit. There are so many more Republicans turning out to vote in this election because of the phenomenon that is Donald Trump, he's got a good chance at victory.

[EWHendo]

Originally Posted by phaz0rz

There are so many more Republicans turning out to vote in this election because of the phenomenon that is Donald Trump, he's got a good chance at victory.

I think that there are going to be a lot of people who vote to ensure that Trump DOESN'T become president. That would be an absolute disaster for the country.

Luckily, I think that if he does get the Republic nomination, enough Republicans will vote 3rd party that the votes will split and the Democrat will win.

Typically the 3rd party candidates split the liberal vote, so it is refreshing to see it go the other way. I'm really hoping this election is a catalyst to breaking the two-party system that has become so polarizing and unproductive.