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Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Hi PayPal limited me and I had 4K dollars in my account. I decided that since people were not going to get their products i would instead refund them. Now PayPal has taken over 1500$ out of my bank account even though I have nearly 1k dollars still in the PayPal account. What do I do in this situation??

Should I cancel the account immediately so they don't take more? Should I contest it with the bank? I'm just afraid if I say, hey this account does not belong to me - they will refund every PayPal payment ever received- which is quite a lot over the last 9 months.

Please anyone been through this?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Why in the world would you let 4k set in paypal on a stealth account?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Because I was already withdrawing a large amount and have gotten purchases since I've been limited. Has anyone experienced this or have any advice? I think I will tell the bank those withdrawals were not authorized. And cancel the account.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Ok well I wanna give an update in case this happens to anyone else.

I went to the bank and told them that Paypal was withdrawing money without permission from my bank account and causing it to go negative. As soon as the banker heard the word 'Paypal' that was all they really needed. He said paypal had screwed him over in the past too!

So after a bit of discussion he said what they did was try out small increments $30 or so for the first few transactions, they then moved on to a bunch which were about 100 or more each. He said that was them seeing if they could withdraw the money first. They were each done as an E-Check, which has to be signed for by me, on each one. (Obviously I did not sign for them) There was no check numbers assigned to any of the dozens which were withdrawn - he said that's a big no no. Also, this account did NOT have overdraft protection on it, which means both the bank and paypal should not have been able to withdraw it period.

He then called fraud protection on speaker and when he said paypal, they actually said "oh another one". They were not impressed with what paypal had done at all. He issued me a provisional credit for all the money, which will be permanent in 10 days and said that as soon as that time period for the fraud investigation is complete it will be permanent and they will close the account.

So all in all a good result but an absolute headache and makes me hate paypal even more. Just make sure none of your accounts have overdraft protection on them so if paypal ever tries to dip in they will be refused, or if not you will have that additional layer of protection as they are not authorized.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

That's interesting!

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

What I found is this.

Suppose you have $1500 balance in your PayPal and need to refund someone for $1600.
You would assume that PayPal would simply use the existing $1500 ballance then dip into your bank acct (or other default funding source) for the remaining $100, right??

Nope. That's not the way it works.

PayPal will instead process an "eCheck" for the full $1600 to your bank. If the eCheck comes back as NSF, then and only then will PayPal come back and take remove the $1500 and your acct with go into the negative by $100.

This is why it's imperative never to assume and CHECK your balance with PayPal BEFORE you refund anybody. If there is not enough in there to cover that refund in full 100%, then you can expect them to take it from your bank.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I didn't know that was their method - thank you for that. However, I have over 1,000 still in my paypal account even after processing all the refunds. This was something they did maliciously because they are not losing any money at all from this.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Yea, it's very annoying and angers many people.

In your case you still have over $1000 in your PP. You are miffed as to why they don't just use that money and want MORE funds from your bank account?

PayPal is setup to work like this by design. That's another reason they are so fustrating to deal with esp. if you are new to using them.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Also the fraud department had some interesting things to say about a lot of "illegal" things they do. Apparently even with a bank they can NOT do what paypal does and some regulations limit them to only being able to put your account in the negative and then perhaps they can pursue you with a credit collection agency just like a bank would.

But since they are not a bank, they get away with things that are blatantly against the law until enough people sue them for enough money that it hurts them or they are broken up into smaller companies.

^^^ This is what the fraud lady said.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Sadly, the PayPal User Agreement gives them the "right" to dip into your bank account for money. They will cite that document which allows them the "authorization" to do that.

Yes, the PayPal "User Agreement". You will hear references to that over and over again.

BTW, it's only "against the law" if a court says so. PayPal can get away with a lot. :)

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Well unfortunately for paypal just because they make people sign something does NOT give them the "right". Just like you cannot willingly sign away your civil rights or constitutional rights etc. Many judges strike down unfair contracts everyday.

The fortunate thing is - and this is just from my experience today with my bank (Wells Fargo) - that so many banks now are getting fed up with paypal and their shenanigans. I'm sure it's very annoying for them to have to process fraud investigations into paypal doing illegal practices all day long.

I think when we are doing stealth it makes it seem as there is no recourse from paypal but at the end of the day it's YOUR bank account so if they are doing things illegally (issuing echeck withdrawals which have to have a signature from you on each one, also making you go into overdraft if you have no overdraft protection, and also not issuing check numbers for each withdrawal etc) you CAN go to the bank and say "Look they are taking money out of my account without my permission and I want it reversed and my account closed"

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

And also the banker told me it's not against their (Wells fargo) policies to accept wires from mismatched names - as long as it's with my permission I can receive money from anyone technically. But it IS ILLEGAL and against their policies for paypal to do what they did.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Paypal will rob you if you let them...
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Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

After what they did to me I was gonna die and burn in hell before I didn't at least TRY to challenge them.

And I'm really the least aggressive/confrontational person around!

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I didnt have to read anything past your first sentence. This was your first mistake. Paypal probably couldn't wait to Limit you so they can steal your money. Never let your balance get that high...and don't continue selling once it gets that high. PP is not a bank, you get no interest on that money. you get the interests from your bank account.

Why sell all these items and make all this money and not even have direct access to your money. All your products and profits gone.

You need to let the account "cool down" and stop selling for awhile and slowing drain the paypal account. Meanwhile, move on to another account until the money is out. This would be my approach.

If you put all your eggs in one basket, PP will burn you.

I personally don't send out too many items until my money hits my bank account. We have to protect ourselves as sellers too.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

PayPal gets a way with a LOT.

This forum exists for a reason. A simple Google search on PayPal will yield countless issues with upset customers.

People get pissed because it involves their money, and rightfully so.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Well the way it worked with me was I had a presale on an item that I really had no idea it would sell like it did. SO many orders and I withdrew as fast as I could - this all happened within 5 days. So I had no idea if the best method was to withdraw as fast as possible in a lump sum or do it in other amounts daily. I decided to do the smaller amounts daily and the 4k was probably only 1800 or so before I was limited and then had a bunch of sales and some was from a pending amount also that I couldn't have withdrawn anyways.

I had a feeling this would happen of course, so I wasn't actually totally shocked. It's a gut punch sure when you get that email but I did the best I could which was refunding all the presale orders and shipping out items which were bought and paid for which were in stock. I'll probably refund even more people just so paypal will go neg and then the bank will tell them to jog on.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Yea, you got too many sales in a small amount of time. That's a red flag for Paypal. You kind of have to turn it on, then turn it off for awhile. Let things die down, then list again.

What was your transaction process once the buyer paid? Were you just withdrawing the money and not shipping anything out?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Not all of it was the presale. The presale buyers knew the shipping date was in 15 days - had not a single complaint about it, everyone happy. Yes obviously I shipped out the purchases which were from what I had in stock, but the presale money I was not going to let it sit in paypal as it was likely they could take it. So I refunded the presale orders and now I have some pissed off customers but it's better than them having to do a chargeback through paypal months down the line in my opinion.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

But my question is, once the customer paid for the presale item, and they have to wait the 15 days, you were withdrawing the money before you shipped anything, correct?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I second aking's advise.

Let this account sit for awhile; stop selling and slowly get your money out. Let the account cool off a bit before using it again.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Yeah the account is limited so there's no letting it cool off it's dead. I'm chucking the eBay too.

Yes I had withdrawn money but obviously not all as there was 4K in there.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

This is why you need multiple active accounts, spreading sales and not putting all your eggs in the same basket. That way if one goes down, at least you can continue sales on your other accounts. For every account you lose, start a new one.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I agree but when I first started this account I was selling slowly and had just had a baby and he had some needs that I couldn't devote the time to do multiple stealth accounts. I've done it before but it wasn't feasible at the time. I'll be doing this now.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

That's sad, having $4k tied up six months is no fun. Hopefully they will let you take it out after 180 days. Many people reporting that PayPal is now requiring ID verification before they will allow you to w/d even after 180 days are up.

Yea, start over. You can't safely use that EB account anyway with another PP long term.

Good luck.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Thanks nick

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I dont know how people can do pre-sales without getting hammered. For one your not shipping anything out obviously b/c its not available yet. That sounds like trouble in Pay pals eyes.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Yeah it's probably untenable unless you have a legit account and they approve it beforehand. Although with PayPal nothing is ever guaranteed.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Cryptocurrencies are guaranteed...just saying...
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How to use Paypal correctly
Run multiple portable Firefox, 1 user account
How to add new PP to eBay
How to clean photos
Best image resizer

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

How so? :boink:

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

I'm not really familiar with cryptocurrency - is it like bitcoin or something else?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

PayPal was taking money "willy nilly" from the OP's bank account. This is PayPal's way of recovering money they seem entited to.

Unfortunately in the world of e-commerce, there is potential for fraud by both buyers and sellers. PayPal is in the middle of these transactions and will seek recourse if there is a dispute/chargeback.

Empirestate is simply stating his approval for cryptocurrency in general which is one way to prevent the shenanigans of PayPal, or any other third party payment processor. The fact is, just about any payment method with the exception of cryptocurrenies can be reversed.

For example, once you pay someone for a product/service with Bitcoin, it's done. Over. No chargebacks or disputes. Those payment cannot be reversed. This however present a potential problem IF the buyer feels they were screwed on a deal. There would be no recourse.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Right - I'm not sure how many buyers would be agreeable to paying via bitcoin because of the lack of recourse. Hopefully in the future it will be more accepted by the general populous because obviously paypal is only one player in the huge time bomb usury scheme which is our current banking system.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

In a perfect world we would all trust each other when making deals, but there is a lot of fraud out there. Any entity dealing with moving money has to deal with risk and fraud. PayPal has this down to a science, and it's all a numbers game to them.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Haha just to add insult to injury ebay just emailed me to let me know I can now list 65,000 a month wtheck?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

lol... those basterdz!

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Oh, those dumba$$es!

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

Do y'all think if I petition eBay to remove the two negative feedback I just got for refunding the buyers they would do it? I just don't understand how a buyer is allowed to leave negative for a item that was refunded to them!

I got a very nasty email too from a lady who is claiming I refunded her then took money out of her bank account?? How on earth does she suppose I did that? I showed her the refund confirmation on my side and she said I was full of sh*t. Her exact words. I told her to contact PayPal.

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

And one said '⊗⊗⊗⊗ items do not buy'!! My items are NOT ⊗⊗⊗⊗ I doubt there's even a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ market, plus the items were never shipped so how could they say I sell ⊗⊗⊗⊗ items??

Isn't this like, retaliatory or something? Does eBay allow this?

Re: Please Help PayPal taking money from bank!
 

As you will learn, eBay is full of fun characters, and some of them at time will make your blood boil.

There's an old saying: "You can never win an argument with an idiot"

The best thing to do as hard as it is to accept is to simply remain professional in your communications. Try not to argue, or get into a pissing match with your buyers. Just be nice, yet firm. If it ever comes down to a dispute with your buyer, what you write in eBay messages will be looked at by eBay's staff and may reflect on you.

As far as negative feedback is concerned, you might want to simply contact those buyers you already refunded and ask them if there was anything else you could have done, and ask "nicely" if they would be willing to change their review. You are allowed to send so many fb revision requests, so might as well try.

Unless the feedback left is in clear violation of EB's feedback policy, getting it removed may prove to be futile.