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Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Limited around 3 months back waiting out the 180 days(all legit sales of electronics, delivered, no claims) when I get this:

Dear XXX,
We have reviewed your PayPal account activity and determined that you are in violation of the PayPal User Agreement and the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy.

Your PayPal account activity and buyer reports indicate the merchandise sold through this account was acquired through illegal means. Specifically, this merchandise was purchased using a credit or debit card that you didn’t have authorization to use. As a result, your account has been permanently limited and this cannot be appealed.

Also, in accordance with PayPal User Agreement any funds in your PayPal account balance that are from the illegal sale of merchandise will not be released to you and will be used to ensure restitution is paid to the victims of your activity.

Although the PayPal User Agreement grants Seller Protection against Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals for Unauthorized Transactions and Items Not Received, because you used this PayPal account to violate the law, namely the sale of merchandise you obtained illegally, you do not qualify for Seller Protection.

You can view the complete PayPal User Agreement and PayPal Acceptable Use Policy by clicking the “Legal” link at the bottom of any PayPal page. You can also find more information in our Help Center.

Sincerely,

PayPal, an eBay Company

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Their reason is quite clearly stated, nothing to do with what or how you sold but how you paid for those items.

Only you know if there's any truth in that.

Serious stuff.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I had a Paypal limited in Summer 2011 with about 13k in it.

Thankfully, they released the funds just before Christmas.

At the time of limitation, the PP rep said and I quote:

"Whatever you do, don't try and open another Paypal Account."

I have no idea what the OP may have been up to, but I really wish I knew a long time ago what I know now about what PP can legally get away with.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Anyone using paypal MUST read their T&S to attempt to keep up with what can occur with the operating of an account.

Sadly, people neglect to do this.

They find out the hard way what paypal does.

:peace:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I agree.

However it is not always easy to understand and comprehend what they can do. And also why they do it.

To be honest, EBay and Paypal might as well summarise their T & S to state they can do what they want and that's the end of it.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

That's the rub, donkey' (:yar: Hi too!)

They speak in vague terms to control what happens.

No need in their eyes to speak differently.

Full time head-ache trying to keep up with what they do.

:sly:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Well said.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I have never had any sort of message like that from PayPal.

Seems like something serious must have triggered it.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

it is illegal for paypal to keep the money.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Your PayPal account activity and buyer reports indicate the merchandise sold through this account was acquired through illegal means. Specifically, this merchandise was purchased using a credit or debit card that you didn’t have authorization to use.

I have not seen this at all in the past, either on my accounts or on posts on the forum.

I am NOT saying that the OP DID THIS, but to me it sounds like PayPal is claiming that buyers complained that merchandise they received was purchased using stolen credit cards, or credit card information. If this IS the case, it would not surprise me if law enforcement is involved.

On the other hand, if the OP obtained his/her merchandise legally, then this is a grave injustice. PayPal may never allow an appeal, but if you can prove the merchandise was legally obtained, then you may want to press the issue. If not, you may want to move... QUICKLY!

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

It is not about PayPal deciding to keep the money for themselves. They are probably required to turn the funds over to law enforcement, if the OP did what PayPal is accusing him/her of.

That is why I recommended that if this is a false accusation, I would be trying to prove that the merchandise I sold was obtained by me through legal means. If enough money was involved, then I would probably get an attorney involved.

Something like this COULD happen, even if the OP is totally honest. For example, they find what looks like a great "wholesale" site that has merchandise just a LITTLE BIT cheaper than normal. Not SO CHEAP that alarm bells go off, but just enough to make it look real and enticing.

So, the OP posts items for sale on eBay and then drop-ships using their new source. But the OP does not realize that the site they are buying from is run by criminals using stolen credit card information to buy the merchandise from wherever and ship it to the OP's customer. Their goal is to sell as much as they can through the OP before the OP realizes what happened.

In a case like that, it could be a couple of weeks before the complaints start rolling in. But then law enforcement comes in and starts tracing everything backwards. They quickly find that the OP's account is involved in this somehow. So, PayPal most likely has a request from them to freeze the money while they investigate. If it turns out that there are other such sales on the OP's account, then they request that PayPal turn the funds over to them.

That is why you have to be SO CAREFUL when using suppliers, especially if it involves drop-shipping. Drop-shipping is RARELY going to be the cheapest way to acquire merchandise. Yet, the eBay seller MUST compete - at least partly - on price. So, when they find a site that sells stuff at 20% below what most legitimate sources would charge, it is VERY TEMPTING to think they have struck gold.

But, if you look at the marketplace - electronics have notoriously low profit margins - you quickly begin to understand that there are no "secret sources" of cheap merchandise. Apple does not have "fire sales" on their products. Yes, less popular stuff gets marked down pretty quickly, but that stuff is difficult to sell.

The bottom line is, there are no "free lunches" here. If a price on an item is lower than normal, there is usually a reason. Sometimes it is a legitimate reason, like when the merchandise is refurbished, or an "irregular" in apparel, etc. In other cases, the merchandise could be counterfeit, or even stolen.

Getting involved with any of this stuff can cause you HUGE HEADACHES! That is why you must CAREFULLY screen any suppliers you find. I always do the following:

• Look up the company on the BBB Website
• Do a Google search with the company name accompanied by the terms, SCAM, FRAUD, ILLEGAL, COUNTERFEIT, etc.
• Check their business name with the Secretary of State where they are located. Even if a company is incorporated in Delaware (very common) they must usually still be registered in the state where they physically operate.
• Is there anything unusual about their payment methods? If they don't accept credit cards, but ask for cash or "PayPal only" then ask why. If the answer seems cagey, move on.
• How long has the "wholesaler" been in business? If it is a short time, does it make sense that a brand new wholesaler can somehow sell cheaper than the more established companies? HINT: It probably does not.

All of the above is only SPECULATION on my part. I have no idea if this is what happened or not. There are many possible scenarios, I was only trying to point out how an honest seller could be duped into selling merchandise that was illegally obtained.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Not sure how an individual buyer would know/discover that the items they bought were originally purchased using a stolen credit/debit card.

My only thought would be if the item was required to be registered in some way for activation or perhaps warranty and the manufacturers system flagged them as 'hot'

However it has transpired the OP is now no doubt in a whole world of trouble which is hopefully not of his own making.

As I said before only the OP knows for sure if he/she is at fault

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

They receive a call from the police, or from the security department at the company who had to refund money to the credit card that was used fraudulently.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Yes, I would agree with that.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I just want to step in and say that one of my friends recently got the same initial limitation from PayPal - that he was limited due to purchasing merchandise with stolen credit cards.

It hasn't been the 180 days yet, but it isn't looking good for him now either.

My friend was a PayPal member for many years, and had just recently started eBay.

His merchandise was 100% legit.

How would PayPal even know what credit card he bought it through? It's not like he linked it to PayPal and then bought it.

Anyways, I can verify that this message has been received unfairly at least one.

My friend is planning on pushing the issue because 1. He doesn't like being called a thief and 2. He needs PayPal for his main business, so we'll see what happens. Probably nothing though :(

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

thats insane man! really sucks. I hope u didnt have much in the pp account!

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

PayPal wouldn't know. But if any of that merchandise was purchased with a stolen credit card and shipped directly to the end user, then that would be the giveaway. Your fiend may not have any involvement at all, but his distributor could have used a stolen card to buy the merchandise and had it shipped directly to the end user.

Or, it could be someone who legitimately owns the card buying the merchandise and then either not remembering the charge or knowingly trying to pull a scam. They call the bank and claim they never authorized the charge. Same scenario unfolds.

This is why I'm glad I deal with mostly smaller items that cost under $100, where this type of thing does not happen very often.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

It is not illegal for them to keep the funds.

They have 180 days to investigate this issue and that is not good for you either way.

They can make a decision to keep or send the money to the last known checking account or withdraw manner on the file when this happened.

Seems to me they would already have proof of something or they would not have went this route.

Again, it is Paypal. What they think and what we think are always two different things.

They believe they are the final decision maker because you used their services and agreed to their terms.

They might just send it to your bank in 180, which would be no different then a normal limitation or if they feel something illegal is happening they will surely have their attorneys look at it.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Not in the eyes of paypal.

We already indicated to the OP that paypal has written into its T&S their rights to do what they want.

If they make the judgement call to retain funds, that is EXACTLY what they will do.

No, it is not right or just.

But it is a course of action paypal will take ( And does take.)

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

dang... I've never read any thread on these forums b4 of paypal keeping the cash after limitation. sounds like what amazon been doing for years after account deletions.

no offense but you can come clean on what really happened?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

It happens. Many panic and take off the bank account attached and they are left with no place to send the money unless they have a working address to send it to.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Not sure, purchases 100% legit using my credit card which has been paid in full, no chargebacks or issues. Items were dell laptops and tablets purchased from outlet being sold around 70% of new retail as they were refurbished (fully disclosed), no buyer complaints, no claims. Not drop shipped, sent with signature confirmation. Was limited and refunded 3 orders the same day they were made(unshipped orders from day limitation occurred) otherwise all orders delivered on time. Not sure what next step should be as all invoices I have won't match paypal info. About 3k on the line. Can still login and shows the balance so they didn't use it to refund the "victims" but says permanently limited and funds won't be released

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I would be making enquiries about your source of items., ie this outlet store.

There is your weak link.

:nono:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Sounds like the outlet might be to blame...
Wouldnt be surprised if their account has been limited too.

Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

You think it was linked thru service tag number being reported? Or was it just PayPal being dumb?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

contact paypal and tell them you bought it legally

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I don't know how anyone can sell legitimate Dell merchandise for 70% off, even refurbished merchandise.

Greenie is right, you need to investigate your distributor. If anyone who has touched these computers before they reached the OP used a stolen credit card to buy the merchandise, law enforcement could have traced the serial numbers. I'm not sure what information may be sent to Dell when you first start using their computers, but it seems to me like the serial number or another identifier flagged them. Again, this is just SPECULATION on my part.

It - quite frankly - could also be PayPal. They have a way of never giving any specific information about this type of stuff, just the general overview. Mistakes have been made by them in the past.

If this is the OP's original non-stealth account, then I would recommend contacting a lawyer. It sounds like he/she is an innocent party caught up in all of this. If that is true, then it would be a shame for him/her to lose the money - it's a big hit to take for doing nothing wrong.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

OP - It may also be worth talking to your credit card company.

If it turns out the items are stolen then the outlet is to blame, in which case your credit card company may be able to help you out with the original purchases.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

What about licensing that was included for the OS? Did it have a COA on the back of the computer(if it was a name brand, it would). There are many situations where Microsoft will cry counterfeit due to their licensing agreement.

If someone was having problems activating windows, I dont know why you wouldnt get any emails or chargebacks etc.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

i thought they can only hold your money for a 180 days

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Unfortunately, this is paypal. The rules change whenever its convenient for them.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Sighs.

paypal may do what they want with funds.

Each case will differ.

It is difficult to generalize.

Under their T&S, paypal have managed to infer they may even hold funds for ever should they see fit.

:mad:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

This is the CRAZIEST thread that I have EVER Read,,,DON'T tell me that if the Merchandise being sold was 100% Legit, that QUICK Phone call to Paypal would not result in some type of procedure to get the account fixed,,,,and if that does not get it done Im SURE that a Quick call to their Legal Dept will ge some results,,and if Paypal is as essential to the OP's business as he states, then Im quite sure that it would be worth his while to hire a lawyer who will SURELY get results,,,,

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I had one limited from going over the $1000 Australian Drug & Terrorist rule or whatever (every Paypal account in oz that hits 1k gets limited and asked for id). I've had 2 before for the exact same thing that were released after 180 days. This one, however... after 200 days I contacted them and they refused to give me my money until I submitted the documents. I contacted the ombudsman and they told them the same thing. They can legally use that rule as a way to steal your money even if there's zero doubt the money is actually being used for drugs or terrorism.

Eventually I did get the money back after sending in documents but they can definitely hold on to your money in that circumstance.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I am not a lawyer but I would think that if OP supplied pp with paid credit card statements for the merch. in question that would solve the problem.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Austrailian PP vs US PP have some slight policy differences

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

dell's outlet on dell's website and selling for 70% (eg 30% off) not 70% off. Stealth account otherwise I would would do more. When I gave them a call I was shrugged off and told they had proof and the decision was final. I think a lawyer would run more than 2.5k so not sure what options left, if it was just the 180 day hold that would be fine but seems they are keeping it. What's odd is that the funds are still in the account when I login, if they were really using it to compensate the "victims" then it should be gone and seems they are just keeping it.

one of invoices for doubters
http://i62.tinypic.com/vowdvr.png

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

^^^^^^^^^

I do NOT understand why you are making your case here,,,Make it to Paypal,,,Call Them, Give them all that you have, Blocking out the Name, ect, ect, and see where it goes,,,Remember those items have UNIQUE Serial Numbers, so you may indeed have some proof that the Unit sold was purchased from Dell with the use of the Serials,,make your case to them, NOT Us,,if you get the right Paypal Rep,,,Who Knows, you just might pull it off

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

If your purchases are legitimate, you should be contact Paypal ASAP with your evidences that you are indeed the owner of the card and has made the purchases legally. Be prepared to submit documents and IDs though, they most likely will be asking for them if they decide to investigate.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

It's been 3 months if what PayPal claims the OP did was really true wouldn't he have been contacted by law enforcement by now? At least for questioning? And even if he does contact PayPal with his proof they would probably hold on to their position as they rarely admit they made a mistake.