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Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I would speak with an attorney. They may be able to help you and often will speak with you free for the initial consultation. They will tell you what your options are and how much each one will cost. Much of the time, and attorney can resolve these situations with a few letters and/or phone calls. That should only cost a couple of hundred dollars. It is usually when a lawsuit actually has to be filed that the costs start escalating.

This seems to be happening to a few people. I wonder what the actual story is.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Paypal would NOT contact law enforcement,,that is not what they do,,Even if it looks like the user is guilty,,if they called Law enforcement every time they suspected some kind of Fraud,,The US would need MILLIONS more Law Enforcement Officials

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

My plan is to send certified mail including all my invoices(should i omit name since they are under my real info vs stealth info) to paypal san jose address now, does this sound plausible as I called again and they told me they were not interested in any proof as the decision was final.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Well how would they know if the credit card used was stolen? How could PayPal possibly know that? If the card was really stolen the owner of the card could've contacted law enforcement. Naturally they would investigated and would have come to the OP with questions.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Paypal Knew because the real owner of the card called the credit card Issuer (mastercard, Visa,,ect,ect) and reported the card Stolen.

Then the Card Issuer reversed all the Charges that the real card owned said were not theirs.

In doing reversal they advised whoever they were taking the money back from, in this case Paypal, the the reason they were reversing the charge was because the card holder reported the card stolen.

Paypal in turn reversed the Payment from the OP's Account and Booted him,,,this happens THOUSANDS of times a day,,,No Law Enforcement,,,the only time that may happen, if the amount of money was really excessive, but other than that, no Law enforcement

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

slapped nicely explains the procedures that happen when misuse of a credit card is reported to the relevant parties.

The companies have defined plans in place and go into damage control.

As I type there will be dozens of cases happening like this. Internet fraud is big business.

Think what you would do if your credit card got used for purchases you did not make. Your first step would be to recover the funds.
:mod:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I have had a credit card stolen. The first thing I did was call the credit card company, the second thing I did was called the police.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I have NO Doubt that that you called the police, But, I was talking about what Companies like your credit card issuer, and Paypal, they do not call Law Enforcement, also I am quite sure that the Police did not do a thing other than take your statement on your case, like I said unless it is for large amounts of money, the never do.

The sad truth is that this is a VERY common crime, and is so rampant that there simply is not enough manpower to enforce those laws.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

How do you know this?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Maybe because slapped has 10 minutes of experience with ecommerce.

He is speaking from long years of experience with business.

He's not merely posting for boosting his post count.

:peace:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I Know because I have been around the Block once or twice,,,

The ABSOLUTE last thing I want to convey is that it is "Safe" to Run around Ebay Peddling all kinds of Chinese Trash,,,even thought Paypal will not report you, I will tell who will,,,The Companies that you are Ripping Off,,,So if you start selling China Specials,, Those companies whose Items are copied will RUIN YOUR DAY,,,EVERY TIME,,,GUARANTEED

They will Purchase one of your items without you even knowing about it,,Once they determine that it is not Genuine, they will purchase another a month later, again confirm that it is not Genuine,,,and THEN they will "Follow the Money,,From Ebay to Paypal to your Bank to YOU,,and then they WILL send "someone" to come See you,,,and you will,,,in a word be,,,, "Fu#ked!!

This I GUARANTEE you happens EVERY DAY,,,so don't think that all of you are going to be running around Ebay like wild Indians Taking Scalps,,,The truth is that YOU will get Scalped,,,You have been Warned,,,

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I am not doing or plan on doing any of this, what you are saying is (in this case) is that the items you copied from companies, those companies will go after you and paypal doesn't get law enforcement involved? Is that correct? If so, why does paypal not initiate it?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Initiate What??,,,Paypal Simply gets Rid of you,,,all they need is a WHIFF of Wrong doing, and PooF,,,Your GONE,,,Thats All,,,they don't want to Know YOU, Your Explanation, Your Story, Your Hardships,,,NOTHING,,The just want you GONE,,,Paypal could NOT have a Simpler Approach,,, but they Never get law enforcement involved,,unless its as I said,,Involves Large amounts of Money

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

So with the OP getting that message from paypal he will not be able to get the money thats froze in his account even after waiting 180 days?

That blows!

I really hope you can get your 3k out of paypal man.

Let us know how you made out.

Good Luck!

Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Slapped, has this happened to you? The part where they follow your eBay, PayPal, bank, then you part? I mean, I expect eBay and PayPal to be a punk and give out all your information, even if t was stealth, and of course your real bank acct info, but does the bank give out info? And no, i don't sell china u know what. But im just curious of the process. i hear that banks are actually quite vigilant in maintaining user privacy, because obviously for security concerns. What was your experience with this?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I Know PLENTY of People that this has happened to, Even NOW, I have a Dear friend going through it,,,The Banks will give up ALL of your info with a Simple Court order, which Lawyers/Prosecutors can get with a 2 Min Phone call,,,

Also your Email Provider,,Like Google, This is the One that EVERYONE Forgets about,,,,,, If you have Gmail, and you access it from your Phone, well Guess what,,, Google has your Phone Number,,, and they will give it up in a Heartbeat, even WITHOUT a Court Order,,,

Stealth is Just a word that we Like to use around here,,,There is NO WAY to be COMPLETELY Stealth,,,ANY RETARD Cop can find you, EASILY,,, if they so desire,,

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

so a company can get a court order to get your bank details from paypal and then go to bank and get your real details? that is still 2 hoops for them to jump through, paypal then bank.....you would have to be a big seller......and you would have to be an idiot to be a big seller with a real bank attached paypal.....

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

@oompalopa

I'm thinking, or imagining that they buy from you, have a nice little collection as evidence and then they go after u. Once they have enough, they add up the amount and say, whoah, this guy has $$$ worth of sales. This is considered grand #### here. We can get a court order etc.

Besides, when they want a return address, and since u have one single mom and pop shop, and then they ask for return, bam, they got u. Now the tough part is how to be completely private, like we're supposed to be guaranteed here in the states. Restore the 4th!!!

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

OP, I seriously doubt if le will come after you for a few sales and not a lot of money when you realize eb is over $8b per year. Too much work for so little return. Everybody has a budget including le they are careful where they spend their money too. I would not worry about it and try to move on. Living in this only hurts you.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

What happened to them? They were selling knock off electronics?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Yes he was, and he is still going through the Court process, but he IS looking a Jail Time,,,Some companies insist on Punishing violators to the FULLEST Extent of the law, this my friend is NOT a Game

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Slapped is giving GOLDEN information and advices for anyone planing (or doing it right now) to sell or deal with knock-off , and thinking wrongly that "Stealth" mean really invisible to anyone.

Let's keep in mind that "stealth" works ONLY when playing ebay and PayPal game, and when someone plays the game the wrong way, there is NO DOUBT, he'll get in trouble.

Also, I heard and read this many times " Law enforcement will NEVER get involved when it's a smaller seller story". FALSE! ... And believe me THIS IS PRETTY FALSE . When someone sells 1-2 foo foo items a week EACH week, all it takes is someone to report him, then a second one, which is enough to get the police or even feds know about it. And this is what's called a 'Non return point", when they know that there is something illegal happening they CAN NOT just forget about it and move on to next one, they'll start investigating , sure, they'll run after the murderer, first, then the guy who made a hold up, etc... but they'll get into the "small seller" story no matter how long it'll take.

It'll be never too much said : KEEP AWAY FROM FOO FOOs.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Slapped, how do you define an excessive amount? Just wondering...

I personally think that Paypal would not just take the OP's money unless something must have triggered it. I do not believe that Paypal will randomly pick on people out of a cookie jar lol - there HAS to be something wrong...

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Did you read the post above?

Two items may be enough to trigger action from an IP rights holder for one seller.
There is often more than one seller flogging the foo-foos so the VeRo holder will go after all.

Message is avoid dealing in foo-foos.

:peace:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

See, what you are looking for now is some kind of "Safe" amount that you can get away with,,,If you business is to sell those "China Specials" then there is NO "Safe" Number,,,

You see, Here is how the REAL WORLD Works, a Buyer Complains the item is Copied, whether the complaint is made directly to Ebay, or to you thru the Ebay messaging or Resolution centers, The complaint is dealt with, life goes on,, in the meantime you keep selling, Months Pass, Maybe even Years, at some Point an Ebay Employee will Look at your account, ALL Accounts with "Item Not as Described" Cases get looked at some point(YES Just like AMAZON, only no Where near as often.)

If that person decides that you have too many such complaints, He either Kills the account, forward's your User ID (Along with EVERY Bit of Information Ebay has from the Moment the account was created, including EVERYTHING you have ever sold)to the VERO Member, or BOTH, and now the "Fun" Begins,,,2 "Controlled Purchases", and they "Follow the Money", and when they come to your door they will TELL YOU how many you have sold,,,and it will NOT be 2

One Question that is NEVER asked on this Forum is "What Benefits are their to being a VERO Member?"

There is ONLY 1 answer, and it is NOT that they get Discounts on their Ebay Purchases,,,,It is that Ebay gives them EVERY bit of Information that they have for ANY member that ask about or is suspected of Violating their Intellectual Property,,Plain and Simple, that is EXACTLY what Ebay does for its VERO Members

So Now you tell me "What is EXCESSIVE??" and do you really think that it would really matter if you Knew??

My Father Always said "Burn, and you'll LEARN" ,,,So Go ahead and Keep Messing with those "China Specials", it in not a question if you will get caught, it is a question of WHEN,,,and What will Happen to you,,,that can range from losing an Ebay/Paypal account to losing your freedom.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

OK I have a few questions.

First, I DO NOT sell knock off's of any kind, I'm more interested in how the process works. You said earlier that, paypal does not get law enforcement invloved, unless it's a large amount. What about stealth accounts that have one or two sales (less than $600 for instance) that the seller would complain about, such as non receipt) How does Paypal handled these such instances?

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

The buyer would complain about non receipt, not a seller.

If the seller cannot provide proof that the item has been delivered then the buyer will be refunded

The refunded funds will be taken from the sellers PayPal balance

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I wonder if llc would have protected him. I mean, that is one of the benefits of being a corporation in that you pay taxes, get sued, etc, everything a person would go through, except you can't put a corporation in jail. Business 101. The reason why I'm saying this is because all these privacy violations is just not right.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Wow are you really that naive. You actually think incorporating a criminal enterprise will stop someone from going to jail. Every drug dealer in the country would have an LLC that they would hide behind. You can't put a corporation in jail but you can certainly put the officers of it and often even the employees in jail. It happens all the time with companies guilty of alot less.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Stop this rubbish about privacy violations.

Stop trying to justify thinking big bad companies have no right to protect themselves. Some klutz of a seller deciding to make mega bucks from selling vEro just because others do it has no protection.

In fact using an LLC will attract more attention.

Here's a surpirse for ya'll. This is the REAL WORLD>


It is against the law to sell to sell items that are protected by Intellectual Property rights.
Such companies would need to given written permission for on-selling
:mad:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

@futuremogul888, @greenie

2 words: Jamie Dimon.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

You are that naive. Not every criminal in the history of the world will get prosecuted. I guess that's because they formed a corporation before committing the crime.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Stop trying to score brownie points just because you can use google.

This is not a joke.

I repeat, this is not a joke.

There are naive sellers who think they can get away with selling foo-foo.

Pull your head in, and appreciate this is for the general good of others.

:rip:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Ok ok ok. I don't sell that stuff nor advocating for it. I just have a firm stance on privacy rights. Just ask vogeltron. Yes, this got off topic a bit from op. but since slapped started talking about banks releasing your info, I get really riled up and had to chime in. To summarize how I feel about all this, think assange. Cheers!

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Not going to ask anyone.

Issue is the selling of VeRo.

Not going to entertain 2 cents contributions just because of strong prviacy rights.
That comes under politics and the forum does not get involved.
There are other social media platforms for that.

:mad:

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

Banks do not give your private information out , your info is protected. If u ever linked a bank account as a funding source to another bank like a prepaid card or something, As an added protection besides verifying deposits after the first time you transfer funds to the prepaid card from your bank the funds will be held, when u call in they will ask if they can contact your bank to verify it is you, so they call the bank with your permission and have u on the line , and your bank will ask you first if it's ok and if you give permission than the rep from the prepaid card will say we want to confirm this info and give ur name and address, and your bank from where the funds came would say yes that is correct but this is with you on the line and after you gave permission, but even with your permission they will never give out info only verify and say yes it's a match or no that's it, so your info is taken very seriously, and is not given out to no one , they may confirm something with u present and with ur permission but never give ur info out.

As far as Law enforcement wanting your information that is another situation, they will need to go to a judge and once the judge gives the order to the bank than your bank needs to give whatever is in the court order, they can even freeze your funds

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

When two of my credit cards were stolen a couple years ago, my credit card company actually called me first. And to my surprise, the cops called me after that. Afterwards, a cop visited my house to get a statement and then I received a phone call from both the cops and my credit card company stating money was being returned to me for the fraud purchases and that the persons who stole the cards were now in jail and waiting for a court date. I remember even asking why there was a court case and whatnot since I personally "did not press charges". They said my state automatically presses charges and it now was a county and state case and that I could either join in or not, I decided not to since I already received my funds back. The total purchases that were made when my cards were stolen was less than $150. So card companies do initiate things with law enforcement, that I do know. Perhaps my card company had pressed harder than other companies would, though.

..as for PP, I've called them once (regarding a limitation) where a rep stated they needed invoices, etc submitted to them just in case they were ever to receive a subpoena for the items I sold.. A bit strange since I only had sold 2 or 3 items for less than $50. But I submitted the docs anyway.

Anyway, this whole topic seems a bit off from the original op, guess I didn't help either lol just my 2 cents.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

ReRead my post, Banks do NOT Freely release client info,,,,But DO, in the presence of a Court Order,,,which is VERY easy to get,,,Believe me, NEITHER You or I, will be able to walk into a Bank and get ANY information about a client of theirs, Unless we have a Court Order, then they will give us ANYTHING we want

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@honehh

In Your case I can ASSURE that you were just part of a Larger Crime, one that Im quite sure involved Many Victims,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I FIRMLY believe that they purposely did NOT tell you about the FULL Scope of their investigation, for MANY reasons, and they ONLY spoke to you about you and your specific transactions.

You cannot convince me that the Police Called YOU, AND CAME to see you about a crime that centered around $150.00,,NO Way, not unless your last name is Obama

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

I ended up knowing the two who stole my cards (and so did the cop who took my statement), so I pretty much know the story. Their records and court cases are public on the web still through the courts website, I can provide the website if you would like proof on what had happened and the total that was stolen? Sorry you do not believe what happened to me, just throwing it out there. Perhaps what happened in my case was rare, I wouldnt know since it's the only time ive ever had cards stolen from me... All I do know is that I did not initiate any of it since my card company had called me before me knowing that funds were even stolen.

Re: Paypal decides I'm a thief and keeps money?
 

aww, I read through these 4 pages of posts...interesting reading.

Some very wise words from you slapped, no surprise there in that respect. I have to moreorless concur with pretty much what you have said as well as the other folks on here in that vein :-