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you really think Paypal is going to figure this out? I'll just call them, when you get a rep on the phone it's a lot easier.

The original tracking, when typed into the USPS website states it was attempted to be delivered, but was never completed.

The buyer cannot just take a peak at it at the post office, and say, sorry i dont want it, return it to sender, without paying for it. You can't open a package and say you want to return it, AFTER 2 WEEKS...

So i think i have figured some things out.

I shipped the item to him in the first place using USPS. When it got to germany, usps handed the item over to DHL, where the new tracking number: 641609732525 was given to the package.

When the buyer added return tracking to paypal, they used the same number for the package i sent (just the DHL name) which is 641609732525.

When i looked up the tracking for: 641609732525 on DHL it states:

Date/Time Status Description
17.09.09 12:58 Posting/Collection at sorting hub Posting/Collection at sorting hub
18.09.09 10:15 Departure from outward Office of Exchange in Country of Origin Departure from outward Office of Exchange in Country of Origin
20.09.09 17:13 Arrival at inward Office of Exchange in the Country of Destination Arrival at inward Office of Exchange in the Country of Destination
21.09.09 15:15 Import entrance Import entrance
21.09.09 18:44 Parcel centre of dispatch The shipment was processed at the outbound hub
23.09.09 02:17 Delivery parcel centre The shipment was processed at the inbound hub
23.09.09 15:17 Delivery The shipment has been handed over for customs clearance.
29.09.09 20:12 Delivery parcel centre The shipment was processed at the inbound hub
30.09.09 15:31 Delivery The shipment has been handed over for customs clearance.
02.10.09 15:41 Local delivery hub Shipment processed at local delivery hub
02.10.09 15:48 Delivery The acceptance was refused by addressee, Shipment returned to sender
02.10.09 18:18 Parcel centre Shipment processed at parcel-hub
02.10.09 18:21 Parcel centre of dispatch Shipment to abroad was processed at the outbound hub
05.10.09 03:40 International Parcel Station Shipment to abroad was processed at the International Parcel Station (IPS)

This tracking starts on Sept 9th, shows when it arrived in Germany and on Oct 2nd, it states that the package was not accepted and that it was returned to sender (me). And it also shows the updates as it's being returned to me.

This is what paypal will see. This tracking does NOT state what address it is being sent back to. The tracking he posted is the same tracking DHL assigned the package when i was sending it to him.

Paypal will only see that it arrived in germany and that he DENIED acceptance. Nowhere in the tracking does it state the item was delivered before he sent it back. Hes filed a SNAD claim which implies he must have taken delivery, seen this mysterious "damage" and sent it back to me on his own penny!! But he hasn't!!

He never even accepted the original delivery. The tracking he posted is just my tracking number in the DHL form. He can't just deny acceptance and get his money back.

Will paypal realize this?

I just hope that return to "sender" s your return address, not some other place in Germany where he can pick up and you never receive.
I don't know, but I think its best to talk to PayPal and see what they think. It is rather complicated. I hope you receive your item back in the same condition you sent out. If so, just give refund and don't sell any more to Germany without taking all neccessary precautions. Let us know when you receive the package back... They may be using the same number assigned in Germany, so I wuldn't worry too much about that.

well i called paypal again today.

They said since i "agreed to issue refund when i get it back" that i cannot argue that "they didn't even open the package". Paypal said, since i pulled the trigger my only option now is to file an appeal when i get it, if:

1. the item returns with more damage than what he described it to have
2. i open the box to find nothing there, or something else there.

Or of the tracking never states it gets delivered, or if there is no signature. Since the price is over $250 signature is required even upon return.

I'm going to guess when i get the package back, there will either be nothing in it, some other item in it, or find a microscope with mis-matched parts.

My only option per paypal is to appeal and provide proof (as if they'll even look at it) and pray they look at the appeal.

Does anyone know if my signature will be requested upon return? All he did was tell DHL to "return to sender". I shipped it USPS with signature confirmation, but since it's being returned by DHL, i'm not sure if they'll just leave it at my door or if i'll need to sign for it.

Another concern is that i'm not sure if i put the right address in the "from" field when i sent it to him. If i was a little sloppy and they can't read my address (which is totally possible) it won't get sent to me.

I asked paypal, "what if i deny the package" and they said then i'd lose...

Oh god, there are so many unknowns here!

just an update!

On the 6th, i received a message from paypal telling me they completed the claim and the money was given back to him. EVEN though the tracking stated it was still in transit back to me!?

I called paypal and they told me in certain countries such as Australia and Germany, when returning a package, they don't need to prove it was delivered or even with sig confirmation, they just need to prove it WAS indeed shipped.

I told them that was BS, and they told me i could file an appeal. They also told me i can appeal up to 3 times, for 3 different reasons (which is cool).

So i filed the appeal over the phone, and they told me they'd get back to me by Oct 22th with any details.

Well, here it is the 20th and the tracking he posted (when returning it) has NOT been updated since oct 5th. It still states it was processed at the IPS station in Germany (whatever that is....).

So i'm wondering what will happen now. Since a "claims specialist is still reviewing my claim" since the 6th, i am assuming they are waiting for the return tracking to state it is delivered to me.

How long will they allow for it to get returned back to me?? They told me they'd update me by the 22nd (in 2 days)- what if in 2 days the tracking still doesn't update? They can't allow an unlimited time for return... i mean where is the line?

Any thoughts?

Any update?
 

I found this thread fascinating...

Any UPDATE?

I've been watching this play out. I have refrained from making any comments before now due to my inability to be polite.

The item could have been insured for up to five THOUSAND dollars, not 500 as was stated by OP. If 500 were in fact the limit, a student smart enough to get into college should be smart enough to separate the unit into 3 packages (base, neck, optics) and insure EACH for 500 (which in fact isn't necessary).

I see potential for scam on both sides and it would appear that the OP has 'colored and refined' the story for our amusement. The OP does not tell a plausible fairy tale. Either he is stressed and confused or misreporting the facts.

This link: USPS - Insurance Purchased at Post Office
Tells us this:
Insurance Purchased at Post Office Insure your package up to $5,000 at your local Post Office.
Provides up to $5,000 indemnity coverage for a lost, rifled, or damaged article.
For items of greater value requiring additional insurance, try Registered Mail™, which covers up to $25,000. Registered Mail can be used with First-class Mail ® and Priority Mail®.

$500 maximum insurance my @ss.

Um, no.

I was told by the person at the counter at USPS the MAX insurance for sending express mail to Germany was $500. He asked me how much i wanted it to be insured for, i told him $1500, and he told me the max was $500 with the method i was sending it.

I could NOT send it registered, first class or priority because the only method for shipping with Signature Confirmation is Express.

Signature confirmation was more important than insurance. If i sent it any other method, it wouldn't come with sig confirmation, which would mean an automatic lose.

If any of that info is incorrect, it's not my fault as that's what the guy at USPS told me.

Again, BE THAT AS IT MAY, this is my CURRENT situation. I started this thread for help on my CURRENT situation, not to receive suggestions to what i SHOULD/COULD HAVE done.

For everyone else, a new update. Last night i received an email from paypal telling me they need more time to review my case. So i guess we wait.

The return tracking still hasn't been updated since Oct 5th... So if paypal is waiting for it to get returned to me, this could take a while...

If most of what you say is true:

From what I can determine, your buyer inspected the package, found damage, refused to leave the premises with the item and would not sign to accept delivery.

Thus, even though it SHOWS as delivery attempted repeatedly, that only means they begged him to take the thing off their hands so they wouldn't get stuck with the thing sitting around until the statute of limitations ran out.

Again, if most of what you report is in fact true: release the funds to the buyer, take the thing back. If damaged, file your claim for repair compensation and then resell it SMARTER.

Thing is, you obviously didn't read the full wording of the USPS link. Express packages can be insured up to 5 grand.

If the federal employee lied to you, it would be on their surveillance cameras and you could hold them liable. If he lied to you, you could have split the package into 3 'modules' and insured each.

Point is, you have a problem on your hands no matter what. At this point, I doubt any of us can help you, honest or otherwise.

Fight it and lose or surrender and move on. I am pretty sure you are stuck. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. It would be the second. Have a nice day.

From the USPS D.M.M. at: Germany

Germany will not accept any Express Mail International or Priority Mail International insured item valued at more than $500. Items valued at more than $500 will be returned to sender.

Well, there you go. You can insure it, but they won't permit it to ingress. USPS is cool, Germany is not. Had you been more lucid regarding the terminology, you might have made a different plan - like 3 packages.

It seems to me you must have misdeclared the item, if they allowed it in. Had you stated that it was $1700, you would have saved yourself some grief.

i wasn't going to send the microscope in three different packages at $80 for express mail, are you out of your mind. Then that's three packages that run the risk of never getting there.

Out of my mind cutting the losses via better insurance? vs. you cheaping out and misrepresenting then getting buck raped?

Rewind and try again.

P.S. - You mucked up your punctuation. Waste of a Pell Grant.

Seee... you need to buy Folgers on eBay for .99, so than you have money to save money and spend on important stuff..That's the point.
Don't hate me, Vic...;)

I could NOT take the microscope apart and ship in THREE boxes, shipping at $80 a piece. The auction was for a complete scope, not individual parts. This isn't a playground set.

What is your problem vicvelcro? I started this thread asking for help to my CURRENT situation. I specifically asked you not to make ineffectual suggestions on what i COULD have done.

I also don't appreciate the negative tone and shots at my punctuation. It's clear the people on this forum aren't Harvard graduates, no offense to you personally.

You are barking up the wrong tree, dude. I've been known to bite back. My initial posts were blunt but intended to be constructive. Your ego and guilty conscience have influenced you to go off the deep end.

Paying $160 extra to KNOW the money was good is better than lying, being cheap, and eating pschit. N'est ce pas? You are less than a moron.

I'm not a Harvard grad myself. I attended 3 comparable schools and have 3 degrees. A science student would not have such poor grammar and punctuation.