Forum

significantly not as described
 

i just got 2 of these opened, i was just wondering, as i read someone saying that when the buyer opens this sort of dispute they screwed themselves as paypal sides with the seller on this?

I think it's possible for them to side with the buyer in theory, but it's too much work for the buyer to "prove" their case by Paypal's standard so most of them either give up or get denied.

You go under scrutiny and so does the buyer. Judgment is made on merit.

I have never won a case when the buyer files this. Ever.

I have had no luck as well. Out and out pettiness on buyer's part

The last one I lost because the crappy buyer said the color of pink was off and didnt match her other pink items. What a crock! It's now our job as sellers to determine if something matches.
It is time for the buyers do do some of the work I think, or at least use some brains in their purchase.

Thought that was the one. Mine was because the item was not in a box. Listed
as 'unboxed train'. Buyer thought there should have been a box. I thought of
sending a box of used kitty litter.

Wow, Paypal must have really gotten stricter since the last time I had one of these.. :eek:

I had 2 or 3 of these and always won without me even doing anything. I never know why paypal allows this because the buyer could just go file a chargeback with their cc.

Paypal will RARELY side with the seller. At the end of the day, the seller cannot prove what they sent. The seller could just take some photos of another product, or in one of my cases, an empty box.

It's so easy to get screwed out of money with these disputes.

i have never won of those cases either. no matter how ridiculous the buyers claim is paypal sides with them. i think it depends on what kind of product you're selling too.

I just had one of these,what do you guys do about return shipping?
She is hounding me to pay for return shipping as well as a full refund!
Who pays for it?
Paypal sent a message about the dispute,but are not putting funds on hold.
But I am sure her cc company will.

I think the reason paypal always sides with the buyer is because they want to keep their image of being "secure". Obviously, there are not enough dishonest buyers in the world to turn this "secure" method into being completely unsecure as far as the seller is concerned.

Of course. Why would you sell her something that is not the same pink as her other items? You bad seller, you!

LOL! some people honestly believe that the buyer is always right no matter how idiotic their reasoning is.

HI:
I have had about 10 over the years. I just refund + get my product back..
MOST of the time, the folks who complain, didnt pay the right price anyhow, they got a bargain..
IN my experience, the ones that get the 99 cent deals are the COMPLAINERS..
the ones that pay $29.99, keep the item, give u good fb.
>> "I" , on the other hand, also buy alot of goods, so "I" have had to initiate not as described, when they send me plastic items, that are supposed to be marble, etc., or gold filled, when it says 14k solid..
---What "i" had to do was just go to a local jeweler, get them to write up their opinion, fax to paypal..
--I'm speaking mainly of Singapore, CHina, Japan.. (sorry imjustme)... :))
AND, these items were NOT 99cents, they were all over $100--up to $800..

How do you prove to Paypal? I had one of these disputes against me, I sell pc's BTW, I sent the pc exactly as described. When the buyer filed his case, I sent the tracking number to paypal but I lost. It really frustrates me because I make such a small profit on each sale and the buyers can be asses sometimes.

wow nice discussion going.

ive never had anyone screw me with these disputes ever, but if they do i will do all my best to get them suspended from both ebay and paypal by creating an account in their name (since i have their name, address and phone number) then just list lots of porn and plasma tvs. then make 10 accounts under his name and list more and more. that way i would get some revenge.
never had to do this yet, hopefully never will.

LOL
Thanks for the ideas, these guys better watch out. I liked ebay much better when Nigerians and jackasses didn't have access to internet.

hmmm, mental note to self: Do NOT piss off ivegotinfo

I had a nasty competitor last year who followed me for about 15 -20 accts, kept getting me taken off..
>>"I" could have used Ivegot info, myself.. :))

Ouch, that's a lot of accounts.

whoa just had another idea. since you have so much information about them... why not subscribe them to some free magazines, newspapers, send in resumes to random jobs and giving their phone number, post some craigslist ads saying you are looking for love - with their phone number again, sign them up to a university program..so they have guidance councellors calling them and university paperwork coming in..

wow this is a world of limitless possibilities :D .. this might not be very ethical, but i gotta be ready when any hardcore scammers try to screw me.

I have had 2 and have a current one. But, I have always won. It has been because the buyer wants to make up their own rules. I will list some of the product that I just need to move and have it as a "Variety", "Seller's Choice" and "May Include, But Not Limited To". Buyer comes back with their choices and gets upset when I don't give them what they want.

How on earth did he get so many of your accounts suspended?

Wow, that gave me some great ideas for my ex! ROFL

Thats the fundamental reason behind most of paypals bad practices. If the person paid with a credit card be prepared to loose any disputes opened because paypal knows they can just do a chargeback.

I have never won a "significantly not as described" dispute and have found forums of scammers who basically use this as their personal scam outline. For awhile people were just using it because they know they cant loose.

I had a seller last week purchase an item and overpaid by about 50%. They had over 800 feedbacks. After 9 days I filed a non paying bidder on them. I got a payment the next day and shipped it out the same day. Today I got an email saying they were returning it because it was too small!!! The listing description stated it measured 2"x2"x3"!!! LOL What an &%$. (Sorry Modee, but I'm mad!) So I have to suck it up and refund an idiot power seller for buyers remorse....not because of anything wrong with my listing or my product!

ok refund them and then... do some other stuff :) since they're a powerseller they wont be very happy with losing an account like that.

how "significantly not as described" does it have to be to win.
im the BUYER and bought a pair of roller skates size 4W, they arrived size 3.
i email the SELLER and they reply, box says 3, but skates are 4W, check again. i reply no, both say size 3 (box and skates), heres pictures for proof. she says, im sorry your unhappy, ship them back and then ill give you a full refund.
so heres my beef.
skates are not lightweight to ship. i think she should email me a return shipping label.
i as the buyer, should have zero loss in this deal. i bid on size 4W, and bid crazy too, because i was familiar with the skate and size.
i dont want to keep the skates and get a refund.. (the skates are no good to me). i just dont think i should have to fork out the money out of my own pocket to ship over thier mistake. this was the only pair of skates they were selling, so i dont where they got such a descrptive size 4 "W" when they were just a plain'ol 3. no 4 and no W located anywhere on the skates. makes me wonder if they even looked at the size when listing.
they were quick to reply to my emails until i sent pictures and now ive heard nothing and its been several hours later.
also, i dont think they have tracking cuz they sent them parcel post, i could open up a not recieved dispute, but that would be unethical, id rather do the honest thing and open "not as described" but from what read on here, buyers dont win that battle.
whats your take?

When you in a fight with a guy over your life, is it unethical to kick him in his groin with your knee?


You need to snap out of whatever hole you're stuck in, and get in your head that there is no such thing as ethical or unethical. That idea does not serve you well, it does disservice to you, since now it make you loose money.



You want to keep the item: File item not received dispute. Escalate to claim immediately. If seller is dumb they would never include those e-mails you send them (which are prove that you did receive them). They might have a tracking number, sicne tracking number for that kind of mail is free. If there is a tracking number it should say e/ Delivery Confirm, or it should have a green delivery confirmation sticker.

Hope that there was not delivery confirmation, and that buyer isn't as smart to include those e-mails in a claim.

Now, hope can only do so much. Call your credit card company, and dispute that charge. Tell them, you did receive skates, but instead of 4W they are 3. Tell them, you contacted the seller, and the seller refused to take them back. They issue you a refund, end of story.


Now if you used bank account for your transaction, you're screwed and have to hope for paypal to solve your problem.



Ethical lol. Thanks god that most people are as ethical as you are, it works out great if you're a seller selling things. Ethetical = can take advantage of.


How can I as a seller take advantage of this poor ethical boy? I could list size 3 skates at 4W, which will sell better. Then when sold, I tell the buyer they are 4W even though they say 3. If he's still not happy, I tell him to ship it back for a full refund, minus shipping and handling which I over charge, and minus restocking fee. Plus I can also say that I didn't receive them in the same condition.

You're being taken for a ride. Sad thing about this is that I don't think you will learn your lesson. You might as well stick to your old ways of life, which clearly does not work for you.

Apperantely you also believe seller is not responsible for selling you an item you didn't want.


I feel sorry for you.




P.S. You needed this bashing. You deserve it.

Now let me reply to his plea as a seller.


As a seller, I come across people that often want to defraud me. It's nothing personal, just business, those are just little bumbs on my road to success and I have to go around them.

The important thing here is not that I get justice, it is that I keep my good name (feedback) and keep on selling.


Thus, I tell the buyer, send them back for a complete refund, minus shipping and handling fees. At this point most get greedy and do not want to do it. They could file a claim with PayPal.


At that point, I write in the claim, No Sir, you have received the item. If you would like a full refund please ship it back to me. Then I immediately escalate. Then add a tracking number (after I escalate), so that buyer can not see it.


What if I don't have a tracking number? Perhaps I'm dumb enough not to get it (it is free).. So I can add whatever tracking number I have laying around from any other transaction I have going on. If none, I can ship something via first class to somewhere, don't even have to be his city or state. Add a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ tracking number basically. PayPal comes along, they don't check that tracking number.. Now they deside, and buyer has to ship item back. End of story.





Now I know that guy and his ethics. "But isn't this guy a crook? Isn't that unethical?" Who cares.



The buyer is trying to defraud me. What a *******!

xxxxtard, you are entitled to your ideas & they probably work for you.
What about Karma? You have to learn to be balanced.

Yeah ethics are extremely important. Do the right thing because its the right thing, even if it damages you in the moment. In the long run, you'll be benefited. Whereas break the [ethical] rules because of the moment, and in the long run you'll fall. I'd call it sowing and reaping (whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap) rather than karma, but in the end its pretty much the same principle.

I understand "iwuvmyson"'s issue with paying the return postage, ethically speaking though if the seller says in their listing the buyer is responsible for postage (and return postage) then you are liable for it as you agreed when you won the item. If they didn't, and it is after all their mistake, then you could be in your right to demand return postage costs. If however, it "wasn't the right shade of pink", then there's no way the seller should pay return postage, even (IMO) if they didn't specify in their listing.

nevemind---

[QUOTE=suspended_*******;31170] File item not received dispute. Escalate to claim immediately. If seller is dumb they would never include those e-mails you send them (which are prove that you did receive them). They might have a tracking number, sicne tracking number for that kind of mail is free. If there is a tracking number it should say e/ Delivery Confirm, or it should have a green delivery confirmation sticker.

Hope that there was not delivery confirmation, and that buyer isn't as smart to include those e-mails in a claim.

QUOTE]
None of this matters. If the seller doesn't provide the proof they mailed, the buyer can say IN THEIR PAYPAL CLAIM that they received it, and the seller is still S.O.L.

I had a buyer file a non received dispute because I would not refund her money before she sent the purchase back. I had emails that I sent to Paypal. I even called Paypal. In the end, I really didn't care. My baby had just been born 2 months early and he was still in the NICU. So, I just wanted it over.

Now, nothing leaves my house without a delivery confirmation.

suspended_******* get the f out of here with replies like that.

sheesh! you guys are passionate! lol
well, i am a seller aswell as a buyer, so i have opinions from both ends. if i sold something and said it was a size 2 and accidently sent a size 4 instead, i would not make the buyer jump through hoops to get what they paid for or to get thier money back.. i would do the right thing "ethically" and immediately issue a replacement OR money back since it was MY mistakes. I would not make the buyer have to go out of their way in any way.
i dont care if they say in their listing "refund minus shipping" i paid for a 4W and got a 3. im not complaining of color or something stupid.. i basically didnt get what i bid on. i got something different. so i should have zero loss in this return. (if i got what i paid for and still wanted to return, i would not complain about return policies)
the title and description BOTH say 4W, i got a 3. i sent this guy pictures for proof cuz he was certain the tag said 4W, i am not trying to take him for ride, nor should he take me for a ride.
throughout the years i have had mixups and it is so refreshing when a seller makes it right immediately without pointing a finger. as a matter of fact.. my ink supplier made a big mistake with my first purchase.. he was amazing with accomdiating me and doing the "ethical" thing in making it right.. and now i will not go anywhere else for inks. had he taken my money and run, he would have only made $70 off me, but now he will get continued business from me because he is someone i know i can trust, he offers quality products and superb service! Not only does he get my business, i pass his name along to others. so i do believe one should do the ethical thing when something goes wrong with a transaction, i beleive (from experience) it pays off in the future.
now, if i was complaining because it was the wrong shade of pink, i would deff. expect the middle finger lol..
anyways, this guy has finally offered to refund the whole amount plus extra shipping once i return the skates.. BUT after reading these posts, i feel the best thing to do is try to resell them myself, because as stated above, what if he says they are not returned in the same shape" then im deff. screwed.. i may aswell just resell them and hope to get the full amount i paid origionally.
supsended_*******, i do find your post amusing..and eye opening lol. i'd deff. want to do the "ethical" thing in a transaction with you, who knows what kind of revenge plots you've got in your back pocket..
and trust me, i dont let people take adavantage of me.. i have my ways of revenge aswell, but i like to start off nice first, then if i have to get ugly i will.
grandpa always said, the best revenge is on a mans pocket book... lol grandpa is an 80 year old italian man still conducting business deals..

so in this particular instance, your saying ethics is simply good customer service?

I have a new one for you. Whenever I was suspended from EBay for using stock photos, they listed under my user name as "This member is no longer a registered user." At the time, I was in the middle of 20 or so transactions. Likewise, I had a few PayPal disputes opened, for people simply wanting to return an item. I always accept returns to avoid poor feedback.

However, one buyer refused to return the item for a refund and demanded his $130.00 upfront. He escalated the claim in PayPal, and once again I offered to refund his money including s/h. A 100% full refund. I even offered to pay the whopping $5.00 for him to return the item. Well, PayPal informed me today that he provided proof that this item was not legit. They further instructed him to DESTROY the item and upon proof of the destruction of my merchandise, they would refund his money.

All I can say is WOW! Does PayPal have the legal right to destroy merchandise? This is so absurd, especially knowing I offered a full refund. The true shame is that on the suspended account I had a 98.8% positive feedback rating. 531 positives and 1 negative.

I would love to hear some of your guys' ideas. I am thinking about small claims court. After all, I simply want my merchandise back.


Thanks