Returning Stealther - Feeling Overwhelmed!

[Nielh123]

Hi guys and gals,

I was on here well over 10 years ago. Read Stealth. Bought some UK accounts. Make mistakes and asked a few questions. Re-read Stealth. Finally got my head around it all and had some great accounts up and running fine for several years.

Fast Forward a decade…. I decided to start selling again. Re-joined here and …. my head is positively SPINNING with all the new hurdles! From MP to ID checks. National Insurance numbers to mass suspensions, digital sales reporting … ad infinutum. I won’t lie, I feel completely overwhelmed and don’t know where to start.

Seems it’s not just a case of re-reading Stealth as (so far as I know?) it has not been re-written to keep up with all the new developments (no criticism intended; things seem to be moving so fast that doing so would be an impossible task!).

Before I tear out what little is left of my hair, could someone tell me – is UK Stealth even possible any more? What are the biggest unexpected hurdles (I heard of unexplained suspensions shortly after several successful sales? And that eBay have other methods of checking a seller is who they say they are - other than the old method of supplying docs?).

Yes, I will be bunkering down to do a lot of reading over the coming weeks but any pointers would be very gratefully received.

Thank You :-)

[agent006140]

How long ago did you sign up with your real ID(name,address,DOB,etc)?

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by Nielh123

Hi guys and gals,

I was on here well over 10 years ago. Read Stealth. Bought some UK accounts. Make mistakes and asked a few questions. Re-read Stealth. Finally got my head around it all and had some great accounts up and running fine for several years.

Fast Forward a decade…. I decided to start selling again. Re-joined here and …. my head is positively SPINNING with all the new hurdles! From MP to ID checks. National Insurance numbers to mass suspensions, digital sales reporting … ad infinutum. I won’t lie, I feel completely overwhelmed and don’t know where to start.

Seems it’s not just a case of re-reading Stealth as (so far as I know?) it has not been re-written to keep up with all the new developments (no criticism intended; things seem to be moving so fast that doing so would be an impossible task!).

Before I tear out what little is left of my hair, could someone tell me – is UK Stealth even possible any more? What are the biggest unexpected hurdles (I heard of unexplained suspensions shortly after several successful sales? And that eBay have other methods of checking a seller is who they say they are - other than the old method of supplying docs?).

Yes, I will be bunkering down to do a lot of reading over the coming weeks but any pointers would be very gratefully received.

Thank You :-)

No, full UK Stealth is no longer possible, simply put. Aged Stealth accounts can still operate but with NI number requirement, no one knows how long hooky numbers will work for, could be tomorrow, could be forever.

You can still create Stealth accounts if you know the correct procedure to do so, but it is VERY rare creative docs pass now, and once you hit that 1740 total, you'll need to enter your NI number anyway.

You can use legit details to turn aged stealth accounts into legit ones, this works fine, currently, may change in the future.

All the information we have has been shared on the countless threads already, just do some reading, make some notes and ignore everything agent006140 writes.

[Nielh123]

Originally Posted by agent006140

How long ago did you sign up with your real ID(name,address,DOB,etc)?

At least 12 years ago now I'd say, possibly longer.

[Nielh123]

Originally Posted by BeachedHead

No, full UK Stealth is no longer possible, simply put. Aged Stealth accounts can still operate but with NI number requirement, no one knows how long hooky numbers will work for, could be tomorrow, could be forever.

You can still create Stealth accounts if you know the correct procedure to do so, but it is VERY rare creative docs pass now, and once you hit that 1740 total, you'll need to enter your NI number anyway.

You can use legit details to turn aged stealth accounts into legit ones, this works fine, currently, may change in the future.

All the information we have has been shared on the countless threads already, just do some reading, make some notes and ignore everything agent006140 writes.

Thanks, this is helpful, albeit largely just confirming my fears. It's interesting that there seems to be someone selling UK accounts though. Might chance my arm after a week's worth of reading :-)

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by Nielh123

Thanks, this is helpful, albeit largely just confirming my fears. It's interesting that there seems to be someone selling UK accounts though. Might chance my arm after a week's worth of reading :-)

They will work for a period and then fail.

So if you don't mind investing the money into them, knowing after £1740 (if not before) you will need to chance converting them into genuine details or submitting hooky docs and NI number knowing your bank account will always be the HMRC trace to you anyway and could at some point verify the legitimacy of NI numbers submitted, then knock yourself out.

For me, tts a large price to pay for effectively after fee's approx £1200 turnover.

[gladys]

Totally hear you it’s a lot to take in after being away. Things have changed, but with some patience and updated reading, you’ll catch up. You’ve done it before, so you’ve got this.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by gladys

Totally hear you it’s a lot to take in after being away. Things have changed, but with some patience and updated reading, you’ll catch up. You’ve done it before, so you’ve got this.

Explain how as you must have some secret sauce that no one else knows about

[WestHammer]

Originally Posted by BeachedHead

Explain how as you must have some secret sauce that no one else knows about

Stealth is not dead. It can still be done, it's just now you have to cross red lines that you didn't have to before. Now it's all about what you're prepared to do.

[james_112233]

If you're looking to simply get back on ebay (because you were previously banned) to register and start a business and scale it. It can be done via a couple of methods. It won't be stealth but semi-stealth / good enough so that ebay doesn't detect and ban you again.

If you're looking to regularly sell vero and churn through accounts, dodge taxes etc. It's nearly impossible now.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

Stealth is not dead. It can still be done, it's just now you have to cross red lines that you didn't have to before. Now it's all about what you're prepared to do.

I get your POV but how is one 'Stealth' when your real or ⊗⊗⊗⊗ NI number attached to an account and subsequently a real bank account attached to your account which is all reported the HMRC at the end of the year?

I can quite see hooky or mismatched NI numbers being on the first list of accounts the HMRC will investigate, if they do.

[WestHammer]

At the moment we don't know what's going to happen with the NINO's. My advice from several sources, including two very experienced tax accountants, is that you'll need to be turning over 6 figures to interest HMRC. They're looking for the big fish and won't be bothering chasing the smaller accounts which will only reap maybe a few hundred or a couple of thousand. The advice I've received is to sit tight, and do nothing.

As an aside, someone much more familiar with the legislation has told me that once the platform has reported the financial data to HMRC their obligations are complete. It's down to HMRC to chase whoever for whatever. I've asked about whether or not platforms are obliged to correct what is seemingly false information (⊗⊗⊗⊗ NINO) and the answer was that there is no obligation to the platform. Make of that what you will.

The bank accounts problem can be overcome, but that comes as part of the "what are you prepared to do" part of my above statement.

Right now Stealth is not dead. NINO's has the potential to kill pure stealth, but then there were people who claimed Managed Payments was the end of stealth in 2020/1.

[james_112233]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

At the moment we don't know what's going to happen with the NINO's. My advice from several sources, including two very experienced tax accountants, is that you'll need to be turning over 6 figures to interest HMRC. They're looking for the big fish and won't be bothering chasing the smaller accounts which will only reap maybe a few hundred or a couple of thousand. The advice I've received is to sit tight, and do nothing.

As an aside, someone much more familiar with the legislation has told me that once the platform has reported the financial data to HMRC their obligations are complete. It's down to HMRC to chase whoever for whatever. I've asked about whether or not platforms are obliged to correct what is seemingly false information (⊗⊗⊗⊗ NINO) and the answer was that there is no obligation to the platform. Make of that what you will.

The bank accounts problem can be overcome, but that comes as part of the "what are you prepared to do" part of my above statement.

Right now Stealth is not dead. NINO's has the potential to kill pure stealth, but then there were people who claimed Managed Payments was the end of stealth in 2020/1.

Anyone looking to simply get back on ebay can still do that. True stealth is only needed for those that want to burn through accounts because they are selling questionable items and you have to ask is it worth the effort anymore as you're not just fooling ebay representatives here to get back on the platform, but breaking the actual law.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

At the moment we don't know what's going to happen with the NINO's. My advice from several sources, including two very experienced tax accountants, is that you'll need to be turning over 6 figures to interest HMRC. They're looking for the big fish and won't be bothering chasing the smaller accounts which will only reap maybe a few hundred or a couple of thousand. The advice I've received is to sit tight, and do nothing.

As an aside, someone much more familiar with the legislation has told me that once the platform has reported the financial data to HMRC their obligations are complete. It's down to HMRC to chase whoever for whatever. I've asked about whether or not platforms are obliged to correct what is seemingly false information (⊗⊗⊗⊗ NINO) and the answer was that there is no obligation to the platform. Make of that what you will.

The bank accounts problem can be overcome, but that comes as part of the "what are you prepared to do" part of my above statement.

Right now Stealth is not dead. NINO's has the potential to kill pure stealth, but then there were people who claimed Managed Payments was the end of stealth in 2020/1.

The first part doesn't make sense, because the VAT block on eBay is already in place at 90k.

So the HMRC are looking at the under VAT trader, as they have already been dealing with the +VAT traders for years, so the six figure stuff is baloney as much as I would like it to be true.

[WestHammer]

Originally Posted by BeachedHead

The first part doesn't make sense, because the VAT block on eBay is already in place at 90k.

So the HMRC are looking at the under VAT trader, as they have already been dealing with the +VAT traders for years, so the six figure stuff is baloney as much as I would like it to be true.

HMRC are looking for those entities that are taking VAT and not declaring it in their financials. They'll reap alot more tax by squaring that circle than chasing people for a few hundred quid.

[james_112233]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

HMRC are looking for those entities that are taking VAT and not declaring it in their financials. They'll reap alot more tax by squaring that circle than chasing people for a few hundred quid.

The whole point of what they're doing is to go after more of those that fall under the "few hundred quid" bracket.

It's all going to be A.i and automated. Manual checks are too expensive but using A.i is far more cost effective.

Companies house UK just sent out a email today as well with some major changes on the way.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

HMRC are looking for those entities that are taking VAT and not declaring it in their financials. They'll reap alot more tax by squaring that circle than chasing people for a few hundred quid.

You don't understand.

When you pass the VAT limit on eBay, you have to register for VAT ns give eBay your VAT number otherwise you're blocked from selling. (there is a workaround but no I wont tell anyone).

Then you have to submit your VAT tax return, there's no escaping when your VAT registered, there never has been, sure you can under declare but as you're already paying VAT (20%) and the 40% but you are more exposed than a sole trader under the VAT allowance . In short, they are already managing the VAT people, they are going after the small guy as per Starmers Police State.

[pward33]

Originally Posted by james_112233

Companies house UK just sent out a email today as well with some major changes on the way.

Are you able to elaborate?

[WestHammer]

Originally Posted by BeachedHead

You don't understand.

When you pass the VAT limit on eBay, you have to register for VAT ns give eBay your VAT number otherwise you're blocked from selling. (there is a workaround but no I wont tell anyone).

Then you have to submit your VAT tax return, there's no escaping when your VAT registered, there never has been, sure you can under declare but as you're already paying VAT (20%) and the 40% but you are more exposed than a sole trader under the VAT allowance . In short, they are already managing the VAT people, they are going after the small guy as per Starmers Police State.

I'm sorry but I disagree.

I know all about the VAT limits on eBay and what happens when you get close and pass them.

But until eBay send that information to HMRC they haven't got a clue. Don't forget, it's very easy to register for VAT with HMRC, upload that information to eBay and just carry on. The left hand, HMRC, doesn't know what the right hand, eBay, are doing. I know people who do this, then file either very basic accounts, or even claim they've just not traded at all.

This legislation is aiming to close that loop hole.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

I'm sorry but I disagree.

I know all about the VAT limits on eBay and what happens when you get close and pass them.

But until eBay send that information to HMRC they haven't got a clue. Don't forget, it's very easy to register for VAT with HMRC, upload that information to eBay and just carry on. The left hand, HMRC, doesn't know what the right hand, eBay, are doing. I know people who do this, then file either very basic accounts, or even claim they've just not traded at all.

This legislation is aiming to close that loop hole.

I think this is just wishful thinking tbh.

Sure you can do that, but by doing that, you have literally green lighted HMRC with all your information, an NI number isn't going to change that. They can audit you anytime they want as you;ve registered and deregistered.

The HMRC did the whole VAT investigation thing years ago, hence the eBay blocks.

This is going after the small person because they never change the narrative, no government does, they want to invest in screwing the small person, be it people on disability benefits or those making a few quid on the side as a side hustle, than go after the major tax evaders.

However, I do feel a lot of this is smoke and mirrors , at least for the time being.