Subpoena bank info from PP

[Yasav]

I was wondering if anyone is aware of any precedents where the EB seller got sued under stealth account, and the plaintiff was unable to serve the seller under his stealth info, and had to subpoena PP for bank info, and served subpoena on a bank.

Is it even possible to subpoena your bank for your true info without your knowledge?

[GreenBean]

Absolutely.

More than one case.

Not just in the USA but also in the UK.

[rsot]

@OP, if this happens to you, you should get legal advice - not something to take likely and seek forum counsel...

[oompaloompa]

I do not think in order to do this a plaintiff would need to serve you or serve you under stealth info, otherwise people would not be able to get served as they do not exist etc.

If a court thinks that pp should be subpoena, then it can do so but it goes directly to paypal, I would imagine.

Big 'if' though, got to be a super heavy case, this is more along the lines of what the authorities would do for serious matters. It is not going to happen over some regular one-off INR or Snad case.....

[Yasav]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Absolutely.

More than one case.

Not just in the USA but also in the UK.

Well, that's pretty scary to say the least.

What about this?

"under Code of Civil Procedure §1985.3(a)(1). The statute requires that you be served with a copy of each subpoena and each Notice to Consumer (Judicial Council Form SUBP-025) at least five days before the subpoena is served on the bank (CCP § 1985.1(b)(3)) and at least 10 days before the return date specified in the subpoena (CCP § 1985.3(b)(2))."

So they must give you a notice before bank could release such info? What if a person objects, saying wth I did nothing, and denies everything?

[oompaloompa]

yes but how would they have your real details to serve you before they get subpoena to get your details? the written notice if it is under stealth info? Do you think that the action would not go ahead if you cannot be found or the person at the address is not correct? If it is serious enough, I think it is unlikely stealth would stop anything.......do you?

Also that paragraph does not say that the person served/written to has to give permission to release info, it is a notice of intent.....

ha can you imagine, unpardonable delinquent gets a notice and refuses to give permission and authorities just go away.....kinda pointless

[Yasav]

Looks like it will work this way, according my research;

1) Compaint - 1st attempt to serve @ return address on the package
2) If failed, subpoena PP/EB for registration/mailing addresses
3) 2nd attempt to serve at addresses from EB/PP
4) If failed, subpoena bank for bank/CC provided from PP
5) Bank HAS to notify you and give you an option to OBJECT before releasing your records. Theoretically, you can deny everything and object.
6) Attempt to subpoena ISP. Then turns out, it was VPN, which doesn't keep logs..
7) Then what??? By this point the plaintiff would already be 20-30k in legal fees/costs..

[oompaloompa]

Ok misunderstood, the bank informs you first.

What plaintiff? It would have to be a major company, not a regular buyer. Even a major company will do takedowns rather than subpoenas....A court would need to be satisfied it was a serious issue....You talking about selling a few foo foos or something bigger?

If it is non-ebay related, I know the authorities can do what they want in serious cases, no way can you object....

[rsot]

There is more going on here than meets the eye - what exactly you up to Yasav? Pretty deep analysis on your part...

[Yasav]

Originally Posted by rsot

There is more going on here than meets the eye - what exactly you up to Yasav? Pretty deep analysis on your part...

I was just researching previous cases and got curious as to what would have happened if those people used full stealth instead of their real info.

Personally I don't have any cases like that, as I don't sell VERO/foo-foos. I was just curious, that's all

[newjerseymax]

I know foo-foo text book sellers have been hit hard with subpoenas....

Since the rise of foo-foo text books the book owners have fought back hard...

[oompaloompa]

I think it is good to know your rights.
It can happen to any seller, or more than you might think, you do not have to be selling foos....eg. say you sell a brand, and you source from some third party, even dropshipping, because you found a margin - and the brand owner does not like it.

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

I think it is good to know your rights.
It can happen to any seller, or more than you might think, you do not have to be selling foos....eg. say you sell a brand, and you source from some third party, even dropshipping, because you found a margin - and the brand owner does not like it.

Think you mean bargain, not margin.


That said, you are deadly accurate with sellers needing to know their rights. So many different things to find out before selling.

I hope others read this and understand the need for research.
Good post here.

[oompaloompa]

nope margin....

Inevitably you will not know most in-depth things especially about the law until it happens to you......ha just try foreign law, I have just had a personal run-in - and I asked how was I meant to know that, it was completely counterentuative!!

This forum forewarns us sometimes, what a great place....

[Yasav]

There we go - found this.

"ORDER FOR SERVICE OF PROCESS BY EMAIL OR BY PUBLICATION that 1. That a copy of this Order be published in The Washington Times within fourteen (14) days after entry of this Order.."

Looks like they would just serve the stealth person via email/publication. I think by far the biggest weakness of stealth is the bank account info on PP but they still would have hard time locating the true identity. So it seems that stealth could potentially avid in civil liabilities.

Although I could be wrong, as I am just sharing the results of my research. Always consult proper legal aid if you feel concerned about any legal matters.

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

nope margin....

Inevitably you will not know most in-depth things especially about the law until it happens to you......ha just try foreign law, I have just had a personal run-in - and I asked how was I meant to know that, it was completely counterentuative!!

This forum forewarns us sometimes, what a great place....

Pfft, tell me about it. Then paperwork turning up in a different language. Bah.

Mostly we manage to avoid these involvements. Not pleasant when they happen.

[Yasav]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Think you mean bargain, not margin.


That said, you are deadly accurate with sellers needing to know their rights. So many different things to find out before selling.

I hope others read this and understand the need for research.
Good post here.

Agreed 100%. I personally would never again trust EB/PP with my real info, especially EB which hands your real info left and right. Under the new VERO rules, EB can share your information with a 3rd party without you even knowing about it. And it may not even be related to VERO at all. Recently I opened a case against a seller, where he forgot to use overnight shipping, even after me paying extra $ for it. The seller was unresponsive, so I called EB and they provided me his info via message (name, address, phone, email) so that I could work things out with him. Overall, I am just saying that giving you real info to EB is not a great idea, REGARDLESS of what you are selling.

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by Yasav

There we go - found this.



Although I could be wrong, as I am just sharing the results of my research. Always consult proper legal aid if you feel concerned about any legal matters.

Safe advice.

Feel that I should say there is a sort of division within groups who may have need to issue subpoenas. For want of a better word, the transgression mayy be dealth with differently. It basically depends on the level of involvement for the company chsing after a person. Laws in the USA,UK and Australia state postal service is permissible. It is possible to serve a subpoena in person.

There are many things to know. The seller must find out how to sell safely.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by Yasav

Agreed 100%. I personally would never again trust EB/PP with my real info, especially EB which hands your real info left and right. Under the new VERO rules, EB can share your information with a 3rd party without you even knowing about it. And it may not even be related to VERO at all. Recently I opened a case against a seller, where he forgot to use overnight shipping, even after me paying extra $ for it. The seller was unresponsive, so I called EB and they provided me his info via message (name, address, phone, email) so that I could work things out with him. Overall, I am just saying that giving you real info to EB is not a great idea, REGARDLESS of what you are selling.

eB agents/CSReps can and do slip up

[Yasav]

After running a $250 tab on Pacer, I would like to conclude my research..Please do NOT share this in the public section of the forum; if you must do so, please do it privately via a PM. This is just my personal research that I did in my spare time based on past precedents related to EB; the reality may or may NOT be the same. Always seek proper legal help if you find yourself in any potential civil trouble. No one in this forum, including myself, can provide legal advice, as no one of us are lawyers.

1) Complaint - 1st attempt to serve @ return address on package
2) If failed, subpoena EB/PP for registration address/mailing address
3) If failed again, use IP from PP subpoena
Note: PP provides IPs in subpoenas, whereas with EB you have to specifically request it, as usually the plaintiff is seeking just selling history with EB. If IP leads to VPN --> basically dead end. If IP leads to a real ISP --> ISP has to notify "real you" and give you an option to object before releasing your info. Theoretically, you can object, deny everything and argue that anyone could have used your IP. Then it becomes sort of a dead end.
4) Subpoena bank info from PP. CC leads to VCC --> dead end, VBA --> dead end. If real bank account, same process as in step #3, even harder as plaintiff has to notify "stealth you" before doing bank subpoena.
5) Finally, request to allow "special" methods of service (email, newspaper). Then basically, dead end, if no one comes to light.