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What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Basically I want to make a private sale of an item and the buyer wants to use PP. I've explained I don't have a PP account but could use my girlfriend's one if they don't mind, which they don't.

So, using the normal stealth methods and ⊗⊗⊗⊗ personal information and creating a brand new stealth PP (unused bank account etc), what will happen if a few days later I receive a large payment into this stealth account, perhaps via an invoice sent by that account?

Will the funds be immediately held for 21 days, will there be an immediate ID request and questions asked, reasons for the transfer? etc etc?

I'm happy for it to be held for 21 days if need be and not withdraw it but obviously don't want the account closed! I just want to make the sale..

Just to stress, this is not via Eb and will either be just funds sent from the interested party's PP account, perhaps as PP Gift or after I've sent them an invoice from the stealth account.

Your thoughts and experience please... :)

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I would question the reasons why this person is so adamant about using PayPal for a private sale?

It seems like a LOT of potential for fraud against you.

and YES, expect PayPal to come at you with everything they got if you receive a significant payment into your virgin account.

Good Luck ;)

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Ha, that money will be lost in the sauce. And someone demanding to pay you a large sum through PP only is just waiting to scam the hell out of you. I won't wish you good luck because you have the guide and 170 posts. The fact that you even asked this question means you have learned absolutely nothing in your time here so far.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Yeah...seen from the other person's point of view, a bank transfer to a stranger is a LOT of potential fraud for them! Bank international transfers also cost the sender money whereas PP costs the receiver money. There's no safe way to send any money to anyone as any method plants the risk on to one or other of the parties..



What does "coming at you with everything they've got" mean though other than resignation that PP are a pain in the ass? What specifically should I expect?

Will it mean that any new user who uses PayPal for money transfer use from the off will have their money seized for 6 months? Or just that there will be ID checks and if so, what are they likely to be?

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Pah!

Your response shows you have lost all faith in the world and are jaded!

In the collectables world 50% of the people expect to pay with PP and think YOU are the scammer if for some odd reason you don't accept it. Then there are many who sell their old items via PP and so that's where their spending money resides, perhaps don't want it showing on bank accounts their other halves can see..

That is the effect of the PP marketing I'm afraid ! Worked its way well into the brains of the scared. They've at least branched out from only dealing with dealers and ventured into the private market place but still they want something to hold on to.

It is my experience in this particular enthusiast world that, as I say, 50% will insist on PP. Just I tend not to make any large sales very often or have done so via my girlfriend's actual account but this is slightly bigger and don't want to cause her problems.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

So any specific experience out there? What will PP ask for?

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Firstly, I'd go with the advice above and avoid Paypal all together.

What kind of "large sum" are we talking about here?

If you verify the account and get all limits lifted before receiving the money, you might get away with receiving a couple of hundred without getting limited. Very high chance of getting 21 day hold on the funds too.

If they do limit you, chances are they will ask for photo ID, proof of address, proof of delivery & supplier invoices. They may also ask for credit card statement and / or bank statement.

Once again, the advice is to avoid Paypal for this transaction.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

paypal deals with thousands of these transactions every day, the problem is not paypal, it is if there is a scam in the mind of the buyer. goods received, happy customer, no issues.

Paypal transactions go on all the time, paypal sometimes check a transaction and pause it, may make a call to buyer etc.....on a new acc no way would do it, any chance of a hold is no good, if I got a hold I would refund the money, but a stronger account can take larger amounts.

There is no way I would send goods until money withdrawn though, at least if you lose acc, you will not have lost goods and money. I have done alot of outside ebay deals, I cannot think of one issue or limitation. In fact the only problems I have had were scammers via ebay INR/SNAD etc

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I have trade customers and sometimes they want to pay me thousands of Euros but I ask them to do a direct bank transfer (which is free or very cheap within the EU).

However I agree that bank transfer may not be an option if the customer is in the USA because of high fees.

If I take big Paypal payments or am sending to a risky location I make sure I send the goods by a "signature required" service. Expensive consignments go via courier and the customer is usually happy to pay.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Your first born.

Then your second born.

Paperwork and info you need to supply.

Worse. you are facing the high chance of the buyer insisting on this private sale of giving you grief.

But, hey man, we are jaded.

What would we know

Avoid paypal for this deal

:doh:

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Start the couuntdown to limitation......

You nominated 3 procedures that flag accounts.

paypal is not for you

:nono:

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

It will be for about £1100 (that might not be a high amount for some people..)

I'm aware that this would flag the account immediately but I was also hoping that people's methods for varification, ID provision etc were so strong with stealth that all the information looks genuine and so PP assume it is a good account.

Are we really saying that our stealth methods regarding PP are fairly flimsy and they crumble at a second glance (and therefore must avoid needing second glance)? Or can they be just as robust, the same as any genuine user but it's being said here that a genuine user doing this would also have their money taken for 6 months, account limited?

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

1. A large sum for a first transaction with PP can flag it for limitation.

2. WHY use PP when you have other ways to accept money...forget this idea.

3. Explore other options.

4. PP is kind of unpredictable to say 100% sure what will happen.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I counted 4 procedures, which flag accounts?

1) Sending an invoice
2) Receiving PP Gift
3) Receiving standard payment
4) Transaction not to do with ebay

Essentially all of those are the whole premise of PayPal... So we could kind of say that ALL use of PP causes a flag unless you are using PP in conjunction with another PP afilliated service (like ebay) which shares info.

Or are we saying that this everyday Joe activity only flags the account because it is new?

Although in that case doesn't the newness of an account cause a flag for pretty much any use as long as the amount is above a certain threshold? What is that threshold?

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Where have you been?

Why do you think many of us joined the forum?

paypal took funds from genuine accounts and screwed users royally.

This is not some users telling you to be smart.

We are trying to tell you given what you described has the potential to harm.

If we fail to do that, we may as well not reply to posts.

:peace:

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

That is a large sum for a new account genuine or stealth. An aged tries and tested with a good track record stealth PP would be fine most the time with that sum. Any brand new account will likely have issues (paperwork request, holds, limitations are all possible)

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Again - you can never be 100% CERTAIN of how pp will act so...why risk using that platform when you DONT have to? Get rid of this risk step.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

The other factor is your BUYER dictating the terms.

One word question WHY?

He wants the item, he goes along with you.

YOU control your own business.

:nono:

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

not on a newly created account. It would be ok on an aged one with previous transactions....

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I was hoping with 1) that those well versed in PP Stealth would say that providing ID docs is easy and therefore it would all be sorted in the end..

I guess that is the crux of my question.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Thanks for the re-frame there!

The seller dictating the terms is what happens when you're thinking you're desperate to make the sale. Yet long term kind of makes you poorer with that thinking.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I was slightly surprised to be honest as the guy is German and bank transfers are even de rigueur on eb in Germany.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

It is via an private ad website though in this case, eb not involved in anyway whatsoever..

I normally make the odd sale via enthusiast forums but this via a specialist advert website.

Of course anyone can behave in any way but all the signs are there for being a genuine collector/enthusiast, all the right references in conversation.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

OK, to move this on then.

How would one go about preparing a PP account strictly for use away from eb, what kind of purchases to make, receive payments etc etc?

Just a general slow build-up, some consumer purchases to the ⊗⊗⊗⊗ address?

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

OP, please just go ahead and lose your money already. You seem determined and assume you are completely invincible to PP just because your account "looks genuine".

Hahaha, wow, I can't even say that without laughing my a$$ off. Call PP and let them know you look genuine so you should be able to create new accounts and transfer all the money in the world with no limitations.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I understand what you mean but PP can still deny the appeal with the documents :( sad like that

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I'm not sure what you mean here...

You seem to be saying that he idea of using PP for ANYTHING in any way is completely stupid and risky..

.. so what is this forum all about then?? It's about finding ways to use PP without getting limited isn't it?

Essentially you're advising not to use PP period? Or perhaps your advising to only use PP for very small amounts which restricts all selling on Eb to small items? I know from reading this forum that many people use stealth EB + PP for high value sales successfully.

So why should this now be impossible when using PP in stealth mode for business that has nothing to do with Eb? Even under the same business name and details and ID as the very same business on Eb?

Perhaps I'm missing an important point in that we get away with using PP only and precisely because it is in conjunction with Eb and therefore the accounts confirm each other? Without the two working in conjunction we are defeated?

It would seem very short sighted on their part if that was the case, them providing each others security data and relying on that to make risk judgements.

In other words, I'm not sure what all the hoohaa is about in this thread.. not entirely helpful - too emotive and leaves you none the wiser at the end of it other than learning by rote.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I guess it needs a deeper understanding than I have of how PP works to find a way to confirm your stealth ID with PP, make it rock solid without using Eb..

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

You can not, and can never expect rock solid and paypal to be a union.

At best, you can use paypal wherever you like but must operate with the background thought, paypal has the power to limit an account.

Try not to be naive with regards to them.

:nono:

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Response:
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/78/7891...67f36789f9.jpg

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

The answer has been posted here repeatedly.

Avoid paypal at all cost. You will MOST LIKELY BECOME LIMITED due to the age and sum.

YOU need to be the one to dictate the sale. NOT the buyer. If they do not want to use bank transfer (Fees or not) then its best to AVOID the sale altogether.

If they want it bad enough, they will use another method.

Even as sent as a gift, if your account is limited, you will either have to provide documents, or wait 180 days. Even if sent as a gift. There have been instances where gifts can be reversed.

To go against EVERYONE just to hear the answer you want to hear is just beyond me with your experience/posts

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

We advise using PayPal in the correct way, which is not the way you are trying to do it.

You need to build trust with PayPal. That takes time.

An account that is years old can handle a transaction worth £1000's

An account 5 minutes old generally cannot.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

I hear you all, I really do..

Just frustrating to see regular people on forums with likely sparse eb purchase and pp use just selling their gear of a similar value, taking gift payments via forum sales or specialist advertising websites and then not having any problems whatsoever.

Surely a GOOD stealth character will be indistinguishable from a real person and so, at some point, a stealth account can be used in exactly the same way?

Perhaps what I'm overlooking here is that ALL these people have multi-year aged accounts and engage in activity which links everything they do to their real IDs, like making purchases from their bank account funds so that their name is received and confirmed from the bank, electoral role etc.

So.. perhaps my underlying thinking is about how to go deeper stealth, make everything absolutely believable rather than the usual acceptance that something WILL go wrong and therefore accepting the compromise between quicker account creation over long term survival..

Of course, part of the psychology of a REAL account IS one of naivety - the once bitten, twice shy attitude of all of us who have been limited is absolutely NOT the psychology of a genuine account holder. Becoming limited and recovering from it is probably part and parcel of a genuine account ... Recreating a false sense of naivety in the eyes of PP could make the account much stronger in the long term.

A REAL GENUINE PP user WOULD quickly join PP and accept the payment, get limited and then fight to have the funds released. With real ID and scrutiny, that new customer would no doubt eventually get hold of their funds even after long arguments and end up with an account completely confirmed and verified albeit after being told by PP that they need to build trust in the account..

How does one recreate that experience of a naive but GENUINE PP customer via stealth? That brings me back to the OP, the reason behind the thread if not concisely expressed at the outset.

But hey, sounds more like an art project rather than being practical for just making money.

P.S. Multi-quote doesn't seem to work. Is it my PC? had to cut and paste the quotes myself.

P.P.S With regard to customers insisting on PP being dodgy, I really don't see how that is different from the seller insisting on a bank transfer which can be seen by the customer as being dodgy. There is risk on both sides without a genuine independent escrow service out there. Each situation is nuanced and blanket refusal to accept any risk yourself only serves many to see you as dodgy or at least unreasonable in a hobbyist market..

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Again, you keep saying that a real account would get this and get that.

PayPal cannot tell the difference between real and stealth accounts.

PayPal are not on your side. They are on their side. They want to protect their money and their business. They are not going to run a deep investigation into if you are a real person. They will just limit you.

If a 'real' PP gets limited 99% of the time in the UK you will have to wait 180 days to get your money

If a 'stealth' PP gets limited 99% of the time in the UK you will have to wait 180 days to get your money

There is no differences.

The way you can get over the limitation is by providing PP which what they want. That applies for both stealth and real accounts.

There is virtually nothing that a 'real' account can do that a 'stealth' account cannot do.

You cannot accept £1000 straight away on a real account
You cannot accept £1000 straight away on a stealth account

Both will get limited. Both will unlikely be unlimited.

Again to repeat, in the UK there is virtually 0 difference between a 'REAL and a 'STEALTH' account.

Do not think that just because your account is under your own details that PayPal will release all your funds and let you get payments of £500 from the off. They will not. They do not know or trust you.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Hurry up and lose your money already OP. This is taking too long. I need a good laugh ASAP. Thanks

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

It's like watching a Nascar Race Car wreck...magical!

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

OP - my PP account is more than 12 years old. I frequently have 1500+ GBP paid into it from non Ebay sources but I dont transfer it to my bank account all at once. I do it 500 GBP at a time over several days.

Some account holders strip every last $$ out of their account but I never leave less than a couple of hundred $ in my account to refund buyers if needed.

Re: What will happen if I open stealth PayPal and sent a private large some of money?
 

Always good to leave amounts with PP - never strip it dry...or TRY to strip it dry