Urgent help regarding abandonment by customs

Elisek · #1 02-06-2017

I need to resolve this before Wednesday (Feb 8th).

I've just been informed that a (rather expensive!) package I sent to Argentina over a month ago has been refused, either by customs or by the buyer refusing to pay the customs charges.

It is now being held and awaiting my instruction to return it to me, I have 48 hours to give them this instruction. If I don't confirm the return in time, it will be 'Abandoned by customs.' Basically, the package will be lost forever.

I have emailed the buyer to find out what is going on at their end. To see if there was a customs charge they refused to pay or something.

If this is the case and they buyer has refused delivery, can they argue that they are entitled to a refund? This was for nearly £400 :(

If they open a case for Item Not Received or something, will eBay decide in their favour? The tracking number shows that the package has already been 'abandoned'. There is no evidence so far to show that the buyer actually refused delivery or refused to pay customs.

Very confusing situation!

#2 02-06-2017

The buyer will win any item not received caae.

You need to arrange the package to be sent back to you or you could lose both.

Elisek · #3 02-06-2017

That's what I was afraid of.

The last I heard from the buyer was around Jan 27th, asking what value I had put on the box as customs were asking them. The actual item sold for nearly £400 but I put £50 to keep the costs down. For the record, there is no way customs can know the exact value of this item unless they are a collector in this quite specific field.

I told the buyer I had marked the value as £50 in order to keep any customs fees low but they never replied. The next I hear is about an hour ago that the package has been abandoned and I have 2 days to arrange the return to me or it goes to that special place where lost packages go!

MM78 · #4 02-06-2017

This is why I don't sell overseas, hehe....but sorry to hear your having this issue.

Elisek · #5 02-06-2017

Well after to speaking for over an hour on eBay chat, my point finally got across. I asked that because the buyer is at fault, will they still be entitled to a refund in the future.

They assured me that under UK law I have done nothing wrong and the fault is with the buyer if they refused to pay customs charges. I then pressed them for a guarantee that the buyer is not entitled to a refund if and they couldn't answer that specifically as didn't want to 'get my hopes up...'

I'm currently giving the buyer 24 hours to get back to me. After that, I will attempt to have the item returned to me. I'm told this is as my expense.

Worst case scenario - I never receive the package back from customs, it gets lost forever and the buyer opens a case & eBay grant a refund. I lose the item and the money.

Best case scenario - I manage to retrieve the package from customs, refund the buyer but deduct the fees that their refusal has cost me. Relist or offer to the next highest bidder. Never hear from the original buyer again.

If I manage to get the item returned to me, I have to refund the buyer out of morality. But is it fair to deduct the fees I'm being charged due to their refusal? Can the buyer argue for the full amount? If I've already partially refunded, can eBay get involved and grant them the full amount?

Sorry for all the questions....first time dealing with this problem!

Elisek · #6 02-06-2017

After speaking to UPS, I have found out that the shipment was refused/abandoned due to the fact that there are more than '3 of a similar kind of product' in the same box.

Apparently this is not allowed. I don't know if this is a rule as far as Argentinian customs go or if this is just a policy of UPS.

They have told me that is has technically cleared customs and passed over to a local delivery service, so they don't understand why it was suddenly marked as 'abandoned'.

I'm told that I have to instruct UPS that I would like the package to be retrieved from abandonment and delivered to the recipient. They were very confident that this would work. I'm trying to stay positive....

Play · #7 02-06-2017

Many people have had issues with eBays Global Shipping Programme (GSP) - to be honest I enable it on all my listings and to date I haven't had a single issue.

The premise of the programme is such that the buyer covers all costs from their side at time of payment, so they aren't surprised with customs charges later. Also your goal is to get item delivered to a UK depot, and eBay takes over from there to get it delivered to an international address.

If you do a lot of international sales, it may be worth trying it out. Like I said, some have had issues, I personally haven't.

Good luck with the outcome on your case though... a bit of a lame excuse from their side "having 3 similar kinds of products in the same box"..

oompaloompa · #8 02-06-2017

if you look closely at tracking events sometimes the timescan be mixed up, but if you say you see it went to local carrier, then it is ok, it is off to the buyer possibly...you are not out of the woods yet but sometimes things get stopped, BS reason written on tracking but then it clears....and takes a day or so to update....especially if there has been a weekend.......stuff like batteries etc can be problems but if your item is not a problematic one, then it should go through.....

Is it GSP or sent yourself? I heard GSP is safer, as ebay take responsiblity for it not arriving, even if it is a customs issue.....although not sure how it would work, suppose they just refund the buyer themselves.....

Elisek · #9 02-06-2017

Not GSP. I don't have that activated for my listings.

Sent by UPS, originally booked through Interparcel. They have to speak on my behalf so I've asked them to pass on the instruction to not abandon the package and instead to deliver in Argentina.

Completely safe item(s). Nothing illegal, dangerous or containing liquid/acids. There are just more than 3 in the box and I didn't know that wasn't allowed. But again, I don't know if this is a general Argentina customs policy or just a policy put in place by UPS.

Bloody annoying, I do know that!

If you guys would like to look up the tracking number with UPS, be my guest: 1Z61E56R6799021920

Bunneh · #10 02-07-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Play

Many people have had issues with eBays Global Shipping Programme (GSP) - to be honest I enable it on all my listings and to date I haven't had a single issue.

The premise of the programme is such that the buyer covers all costs from their side at time of payment, so they aren't surprised with customs charges later. Also your goal is to get item delivered to a UK depot, and eBay takes over from there to get it delivered to an international address.

If you do a lot of international sales, it may be worth trying it out. Like I said, some have had issues, I personally haven't.

Good luck with the outcome on your case though... a bit of a lame excuse from their side "having 3 similar kinds of products in the same box"..

ive had issues using it, since they dont combine on shipping/ postage on this and the buyer has to pay postage per piece he buys, so it wont work for everyone

rsot · #11 02-07-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elisek

Nothing illegal, dangerous or containing liquid/acids. There are just more than 3 in the box and I didn't know that wasn't allowed. But again, I don't know if this is a general Argentina customs policy or just a policy put in place by UPS.

If not dangerous, I have never heard of this "more than 3 in the box" - sounds quite odd - maybe a misidentification thing

oompaloompa · #12 02-07-2017

this is very bad luck....maybe it is classed as an importation and needed different paperwork to a gift or 1 in a box or sample or whatever....it is impossilbe to keep up with the rules of each country...

Elisek · #13 02-08-2017

It looks like I'm having to instruct the package back to me in the UK.

My buyer in Argentina spoke to UPS on the phone and they told her that, even though she had paid all the necessary customs fees, they couldn't deliver because there are more than 3 types of the same product in the box. They've given her absolutely no other options, so it's down to me to have it returned, cancel the order and refund her.

The order itself cost nearly £400, it cost me an extra £63 to ship it and now I'm having to pay for return postage from Argentina.... God knows how much that will be!

In this case, I'm not entitled to deduct my costs from the buyers refund am I? Because she didn't technically do anything wrong. She didn't refuse the delivery. And she was just as unaware as I was about this stupid '3 items' policy.

So I'm out of pocket in a huge way

oompaloompa · #14 02-08-2017

I would think you have to cover the return, only because the buyer cannot be expected to, for the reason given.....

with GSP you probably would have not had to foot that bill, worth remembering for the future, although not all countries are covered by GSP.

make sure you get your fees back, with a cancellation.....

Elisek · #15 02-08-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

I would think you have to cover the return, only because the buyer cannot be expected to, for the reason given.....

with GSP you probably would have not had to foot that bill, worth remembering for the future, although not all countries are covered by GSP.

make sure you get your fees back, with a cancellation.....

Just had eBay clarify this -

I AM allowed to deduct my costs from any refund I give but ONLY if the buyer agrees to a partial refund. If the buyer does not agree, they could be allowed to open a case, which may mean they get a full refund!

wired · #16 02-08-2017

Buyer has done nothing wrong, you need to refund in full.

Any losses you have you should take up with Interparcel - however, I stopped using them last year because of similar issues like this, they wont pay a penny out I am afraid.

Bunneh · #17 02-08-2017

Quote:

My buyer in Argentina spoke to UPS on the phone and they told her that, even though she had paid all the necessary customs fees, they couldn't deliver because there are more than 3 types of the same product in the box. They've given her absolutely no other options, so it's down to me to have it returned, cancel the order and refund her.

The order itself cost nearly £400, it cost me an extra £63 to ship it and now I'm having to pay for return postage from Argentina.... God knows how much that will be!

In this case, I'm not entitled to deduct my costs from the buyers refund am I? Because she didn't technically do anything wrong. She didn't refuse the delivery. And she was just as unaware as I was about this stupid '3 items' policy.

So I'm out of pocket in a huge way

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elisek

Just had eBay clarify this -

I AM allowed to deduct my costs from any refund I give but ONLY if the buyer agrees to a partial refund. If the buyer does not agree, they could be allowed to open a case, which may mean they get a full refund!

it would not be fair for you to charge her for a mistake that is out of both your hands, you may have lost your shipping fee's but she has also paid customs for a parcel she hasnt received..

Be glad you were not fined for undeclaring, because customs have ways and can find out values of items and fines can go up to £5000 (or worse) for a false declaration.

Elisek · #18 02-08-2017

Well, the plot now thickens...

After instructing UPS to return the package - and waiting all day to hear confirmation that they are going ahead with a return - they are now telling me that the package was delivered yesterday!

But my customer says this is a lie and the tracking does not indicate it has been delivered at all.
I have asked for clarification and proof of delivery but won't hear anything until tomorrow morning at the earliest.

My fear is that I needed to instruct them to return it by the end of today, otherwise it would be 'destroyed'. And if they've made a mistake in saying it was delivered, then they obviously haven't processed my package for return. Which means it'll be destroyed.

I honestly want to tear my hair out.

stevebills · #19 02-08-2017

leave selling abroad to the chinise they are masters of selling cheap tack to th ends of the earth

Elisek · #20 02-09-2017

I seem to be getting more of the story now.

My customer was handed customs forms to fill in on Jan 27th before they could deliver. She didn't tell me this. Turns out the reason they are refusing delivery is because the one thing she lacks is an Import License. She also didn't tell me this. Due to the box containing more than 3 items, customs are assuming they are for trade or business even though it's marked as a gift and these really are for personal use.

No amount of fee paying or begging with them over the phone will solve this for her. They are point blank refusing to deliver because she's an individual and not a 'business'.
My only option is to arrange for a return and refund her when I get it back.

This is the first time I've ever shipped to Argentina. After some research because of this case, they are very very strict on almost every product out there. You can't bloody post anything!

newjerseymax · #21 02-09-2017

Man this really bites! I feel bad for you.

I'm with the GSP since start and never had any such issues. I assume Pitney Bowes is aware of most the rules so these issues are avoided.

Sending good vibes your way~~~

Elisek · #22 02-17-2017

Oh my god, I am fuming!

Since I originally booked with Interparcel, UPS will only speak to them regarding this issue, so they have to pass messages on my behalf while I wait (now rather impatiently) for updates.

Last week, I was told that a return to the UK from Argentina would cost £92.10, which I was willing to pay. So I told them 'yes please' and let's just get on with it.

But today - just now in fact - UPS are saying that because the package is held in customs, they would need to hire an external broker to pick it up, bring it back to their center, clear it and return it..... which apparently is now going to cost me up to $2500!

How the hell can a fee go from £92.10 to possibly $2500 in a week?!

This may no longer be worth the fight. Feeling very deflated :(