What do PayPal 'check'?????

mattytman · #1 01-11-2011

Ok - this is a little odd but I need some enlightenment on a very specific PayPal process...

I sell a product via say Gumtree. I accept PayPal payment to a 'random' email address. Once that payment is received to the random email address I create a PayPal account using a genuine address within say twenty miles of myself. I simply google addresses and use the correct phone number for that address. There is a good reason for this...but I'll explain that in a moment. I also create an eBay account with the same details.

I have a good standing 2 year + stealth eBay account with good standing PayPal account. I then wait say 24 hours and 'buy' something from myself on eBay with the account created the day (or two) before. So then the cash is in my good standing PayPal - free to withdraw or buy as I see fit.

I do this simply because Gumtree buyers often file chargebacks etc. If they do that then it leaves me unaffected because the PayPal address that they paid is only good for one transaction anyway. It doesn't need to be verified and it doesn't need much for just the one transaction.

So...8 times out of ten this works fine...and has done for around six months. However, when I sent the payment to myself from the random email/PayPal account by buying something...I get this message:

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXX,

XXXXXXXXXX paid for their item using PayPal. This payment is under review.

The Payment Review may take up to 24 hours. When we've completed the review, we'll either clear or cancel the payment. If the payment clears: You may proceed to process the order. To know if your item is covered, check the 'Seller Protection' section of the 'Transaction Details' page and ensure that it states 'Eligible'.

You shouldn't provide the item or service purchased until we let you know that the payment has cleared. We'll send you an email when the funds are released. Or you can:

* Log in to your PayPal account from PayPal - the safer, easier way to pay online
* Check the transaction History from your Account Overview

XXXXXXXXX is a Unverified Customer

Payment Details:

Amount: XXXXXX GBP

Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

View the details of this transaction online
It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.

Postage Information:

Address:

XXXXXXX
XXX XXX
XXXXXXXXXXX

Yours sincerely,

PayPal

Then, usually around an hour later I get this:

Payment Review Outcome: Cleared, OK to Send.

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

We have completed our payment review and have cleared the transaction below. You may proceed to process the order. To know if your item is covered, check the 'Seller Protection' section of the 'Transactions Details' page and ensure that it states 'Eligible'.
You can now provide the item or service purchased.

Payment Details:

Amount: XXXXXXX
Transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Buyer's Email: XXXXXXXXXX

Postage Details:

Address:
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXX

If you have any questions about this transaction, you may contact Customer Service by logging in to your PayPal account and clicking the Contact Us link.

Yours sincerely,

PayPal

When I get that - that's cool, and happens 8 times out of ten. However, the other two times I get this:

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXX,

To protect you from problematic transactions, we sometimes request
additional information about PayPal payments.

We need more information about this transaction. Please log in to your
PayPal account, click the "Resolution Centre" tab, and provide more
information by 11/01/2011.

If you need to provide information by fax, click and print a cover sheet:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?c...01-175-855-019

Please fax proof of postage or proof of refund to 08707 303 196.

We recommend that you do not post the item until our investigation is
complete. If you've already posted the item, please log in and let us know
where you posted it.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until we complete our
investigation.

-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------

Transaction date: XXXXXXXX
Transaction amount: XXXXXXXX
Your transaction ID: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Case number: XXXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your cooperation.

Yours sincerely,

PayPal

I am happy enough with 8 out of 10. But they ALWAYS get reversed when I get this email. Even though I have a real address to post 'something' to (have posted a chinese takeaway with tracking previously). Show it shows as 'sent'/'delivered', I leave myself positive feedback...I even put it as 'received' in the eBay section and STILL they reverse the payment.

Does anyone here know what PayPal are 'checking' during this hour or so. It seems so so random - but I'm hoping it's not and that I can bypass it...

Any help would be appreciated.

Sorry for the long post...

rsot · #2 01-11-2011

Sadly, you are asking for a simple solution. Your method of moving money around is somewhat dangerous but yet, all the best that your model works.

Paypal checks all kinds of factors - origin of payment, what is being bought, IP, location, etc. There is no simple solution. The logarithms involved are done by paypal actuaries and searching our forums, will give you a clearer idea but nothing is 100%.

The fact that your method works 8 out of 10 times is very nice.

vokonta · #3 01-11-2011

I have to say this your method appears rather complex. ...But then, i wish i could offer you a much simpler solution. Might be an idea to search forum just in case anyone has any tips

mattytman · #4 01-11-2011

Hi

I'm not looking for a 'simple answer'...just merely an answer. Having had a stealth account (x10) for many years I am aware of the things that PayPal check out when processing payments.

My IPs are different
Postal Addresses are real
All bases covered

The 'list' goes on. And, obviously, 80% of the time there is no problem. I think it may be random...nothing else makes much sense.

As for it being complex...I grant that it does look rather long-winded. However, through practice...from the point I have a payment from someone...I have this 'money' in my stealth account within 24 hours...so it's not so bad.

I was just hoping someone may have an idea on something I'm maybe 'missing'. An extra variable so to speak.

oompaloompa · #5 01-11-2011

The email will be telling you it is due to unverified address, but it is more than that, this will be a check on the ebay account/paypal of the buyer, it will be due to zero feedback and/or newly made eg same day or day before. It makes you look like a scammer.

It has nothing to do with the seller account, the IP is not being checked, it is to protect the seller. They have no idea they are dealing with golum and smeigel....

I think it triggered by various things, because not all zero feedback buyers are hit with a review, Ive had plenty of sales from those types myself. Higher price/overseas buyer/vcc, all triggers.......BUT only very new or unverified will be subject to those triggers......

your solution is to age ebay buyer accounts slightly more, I dont think you need feedback but it would certainly help.

rsot · #6 01-11-2011

Also if a buyer uses credit card as funding source - that plays into the hold algorithm too since chargeback is always a live problem.