Forum

Paypal limitation ruins ebay account
 

Hello All.

Might i start by thanking you all in advance for any help or advice you might be able to offer us in this darkest of times for me, and my eBay business.

I must apologise for the volume of this post but understandably, when considering the position we find ourselves in, i feel it important to tell my story as clearly, comprehensively and accurately as possible, so we might benefit from all of the experience and expertise i believe there to be on this site.

Bearing in mind the trauma i have experienced in recent days, i will apologise now for any important information/detail i might have neglected to include but, should any further info be required, i will add it upon request.

About 3 years ago, i turned a hobby of mine into a business by selling used furniture through eBay and, through a lot of hard work, effort and luck, managed to develop this 1-man enterprise into an eBay business turning over £000,000's through a top-rated eBay shop. A real-life eBay success story. At the risk of sounding cheesy, it totally changed my life. I could provide for my family like never before and, more importantly, was able to involve and employ some old friends of mine who had fallen on difficult times, changing their lives for the better too. It was amazing. Understandably, i was the biggest eBay and Paypal fan you could find.

Until about 10 days ago.

Our modest success had led to us starting to sell our furniture internationally, as well as in the UK, through eBay and, most recently, we had sold a sofa to a gentleman in the South of France for £2000, for which he paid through Paypal. Courier (delivery) issues meant there was a delay in shipping this piece down to him as promptly as we would have hoped and, despite being in regular contact with him regarding this delay, he decided (without our knowledge) to open a Paypal dispute to register this fact.

Almost immediately he did this, we received the following message from Paypal.


"We need your help resolving an issue with your account. To give us time to
work together on this, we've temporarily limited what you can do with your
account until the issue is resolved.

We understand it may be frustrating not to have full access to your PayPal
account. We want to work with you to get your account back to normal as
quickly as possible.

What's the problem?

For reasons relating to the safe use of the PayPal service we need some
more information about some of your recent eBay and PayPal activity."


Naturally, i was alarmed. Up until this point, we had always enjoyed a trouble-free relationship with Paypal, processing between £1000 and £5000 of payments through our fully-verified business account a month (we also have a dedicated merchant account with our bank, through which we captured the majority of payments directly from our clients). These payments ranged from a couple of hundred £'s for modest, basic pieces of furniture, up to several thousand £'s for more rare, collectable pieces but, in the 3 years we had operated this Paypal account, we had not encountered a single issue/problem, until now.

Almost immediately this Paypal message arrived, the following message landed from eBay.


"We have limited your eBay account as a precaution because our review of your account has identified an issue regarding its safe use.

As part of our efforts to provide a safe and secure environment for the online community, we regularly screen account activity. We never share exactly what gave us reason to place limitations on an account as this information could assist an individual, who may present a safety risk, avoid such limitations.

Please understand we're not accusing you of dishonest behaviour. Our top priority is to keep our online community safe, which is why we'd like to ask you for some further information.

If, once we review your further information, we're confident that the use of your account does not present a safety risk to our service and customers, we'll be happy to reinstate your account.

Here's what you need to do to resolve the limitations:

1. Log into your PayPal account.
2. Click on the 'Account' tab.
3. Click on the sub-tab 'Resolution Centre'.
4. Go to the 'Action' column.
5. Click on the 'Resolve' button to view the requirements and follow the instructions provided.

After we have gathered the necessary information, we'll review your account and notify you by email of our decision.

Please note that any selling fees owed to eBay may become due and payable

We thank you for your prompt attention to this important matter.

Regards,

eBay Trust & Safety


H41380"

I was stunned. Within the space of 15 minutes, our thriving, relatively long-standing eBay business had been stopped in its tracks.

In a state of mild panic, i followed all steps required without delay, providing both eBay and Paypal with all the information and documentary evidence requested, and took the action of refunding the whole of the £2000 Paypal payment back to the French client in order to resolve the outstanding dispute (against his wishes, as he was desperate to secure this rare, collectable piece) in the hope that this would restore the situation back to normality without further, undue delay.

I was reassured that this had been the correct course of action when the following message arrived from Paypal.

"xxxxxx xxxxxxxx has closed this dispute.

Thank you for working with your buyer to resolve their concern. We hope
you found the PayPal dispute resolution process to be helpful as you worked
toward an agreement.

Any funds associated with this payment that may have been considered
'Disputed' are now available for withdrawal.

Thank you,

PayPal"

However, far from this being the case, the following message from Paypal arrived shortly afterwards.

"To protect all members of our online community, we must part ways with you.
We've reviewed your PayPal account and determined there is excessive risk
involved in doing business with you. To minimize the disruption to your
business, you can continue to log in to your account for the next 180 days.

If you have a negative balance, please add money to your PayPal account. If
you choose not to add money and bring your balance to at least zero, we
reserve the right to collect the money through legal means.

Please go to the Resolution Center to resolve any outstanding buyer
complaints or chargebacks. If you would like to refund any of your buyers,
reply to this email with the transaction details. We'll send a refund on
your behalf using money from your PayPal balance.

Here's how to view the status of a buyer complaint:

1. Go to www.paypal.com and log in to your account.
2. Click 'Resolution Centre' near the top of the page.
3. Select 'Open Cases' from the drop-down list next to 'View.'
4. Click 'Status' next to the transaction.

After 180 days, we'll contact you with information on how to withdraw any
money in your PayPal account. You'll be able to transfer money to your bank
account or request a check. You can't withdraw it now because we want to
make sure that you have money in your account to cover any new payment
reversals.

If you'd like more information about our policies, please read our User
Agreement. Click 'Legal Agreements' at the bottom of any PayPal page, and
then click 'User Agreement for PayPal Service.'

Yours sincerely,

PayPal"

Needless to say, at this point, i was in shock, and totally devastated. I spoke to customer services at both eBay and Paypal immediately, with a view to making some sense of this situation but, whilst the chap at eBay was helpful enough to clarify that the Paypal situation would need to be resolved in order to have the limitation on my eBay account lifted (this, to me, made some sense), the lady i spoke to in Paypal Limitations was rude, curt, unwilling to discuss the reasons behind this decision (other than to repeat that this decision was final, and that no appeal could be made) and, eventually, hung-up on me.

At this point, the gravity of the situation hit me. Our eBay business was, potentially, dead in the water, with all the associated consequences for both me and those others involved. You will not be surprised to hear that, for a short while at least, i was in bits.


I called Paypal again later that day, in the hope that, by speaking to someone else, i might get more information and help on this matter. The lady was a little more forthcoming on this occasion, and even agreed that she could not see why this decision could of been arrived at, and escalated the matter back to the department responsible for this matter to be reconsidered. However, despite being asked for further information by Paypal again (which i provided immediately and comprehensively), my hope that this could all be a misunderstanding/mistake was only to last the day or so until their response arrived.

"We have reviewed your PayPal Account, and due to the excessive risk
involved, we would like to begin parting ways in a manner that is least
disruptive to your business."

Again, this left me totally devastated. A further phone call to Paypal proved pointless, as the operative simply re-itterated that this decision was final, and that no further opportunity for appeal was available to me.

This was confirmed by the following message from Paypal that arrived yesterday.

"We appreciate your interest in PayPal; however, our decision to leave your
account in a permanent limitation status is final.

PayPal reserves the right to limit access to any account reported to be
involved in possible fraudulent or high risk behaviour. In the event of a
dispute, PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your
PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal
balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any
other legal means.

We regret any inconvenience this may cause.

Yours sincerely,
Rudi
PayPal"

So, in the course of about 7 days, i have gone from having everything to having nothing, and due to reasons i am at a loss to explain.

From the very start of this eBay business 3+ years ago, we have being honest, courteous, transparent and genuine in all of our dealings, as our near-perfect eBay feedback and Paypal record would confirm, and Paypal thinks it appropriate to twist the knife in its parting shot by accusing us of "possible fraudulent or high risk behaviour"? Unbelievable. Surely, the ultimate example of adding insult to injury.

So, what on earth do i do next?

Our pristine eBay sellers account is entirely limited (i can sign-in, but cannot access any information at all) until this Paypal issue is resolved to their satisfaction which, now, it would appear impossible to do.

From what i can gather, i cannot set-up on eBay or Paypal again as our business/bank details will probably lead to any new accounts becoming linked and limited too.

I have a personal eBay account too which, as a consequence of the link to my business (it has a different name, address, email address and bank details, but shares a delivery address as, when not at home, i chose to accept personal deliveries at work) has also been limited. I can buy through it, but cannot sell until the issues relating to my business account have been resolved, so it would appear that my personal and professional life on eBay is at an end.

It would appear i have exhausted all avenues for appeal at Paypal and, despite all this extended correspondence with them, still cannot get any concrete reasons for our expulsion from, or contact with, those who saw fit to impose this decision upon us. I really am lost for words when it comes to the lack of transparency exhibited by Paypal throughout this process. For a company in their position, I really do not know how they get away with this kind of behaviour and practice, or that it is even legally sound.

All that said, any thoughts/help/advice would be gratefully received, as I really am at a loss as to what to do next.

Regarding the business, our cashflow has practically dried up overnight, but the bills and wages still need paying and, if nothing changes in the next week or so, i will be left with no option but to let the business go which, as you will no doubt appreciate, will truly break my heart (not through self-pity however, but due to returning my old friends back to the difficulties from which this business rescued them).

I had considered selling most of my more valuable personal effects on eBay to prop things up for as long as possible but, with my personal eBay account being limited, i do not even have this option left open to me.

My apologies for this post resembling "War and Peace" but, as i hope you will appreciate, this means an awful lot to me (and others), and i am desperately trying to find a solution to, what appears to be, an impossible situation.

Thank you for reading my story and, again, many thanks in advance for any help or advice you may be able to offer.

Warm regards.

Oh sh*t:eek:

I cannot offer any good news apart from the fact you are among people who are not surprised and who empathise with you.

The first thing you must do is buy the stealth guide.

Then boil the kettle, make a nice cup of tea, relax and read it from beginning to end.

You are obviously articulate and knowledgeable and absorbing the information contained in the guide will not be difficult for you. It will require a change in your mind set and it will take some time to get back to the situation you were in - but it can be done.

First step is get the guide and become a subscribed member:thumb:

From today onwards it will get a little bit better every day.:amen:

damn that sucks.... Ebay closes what they feel. Oh yeah and by the way Hello Forum!:yar:

What could his motive be in doing that IF you say you were in contact with him? What was his buying history like? Was his paypal verified & confirmed?


Not an unreasonable request from paypal considering this was an international transaction. They protect themselves more than you. And sadly this you have found out.



It takes one problem to ruin alife and an account.


Ah the ebay doing the protect themsleves rubbish. Means nothing if they think you are compromising them


. Elaborate further. Did you get the sofa back? Answer might be useful in your defence.


Usual yada yada yada knife you in the back paypal speak.


You would have better to hit your head against a brick wall.



I read War and Peace in French. Yours was easier to understand. Phone calls are always chancy with ebay/paypal. It has much to do with the IQ level of the person on the other end of the phone. The scenario is similar to others we have dealt with here.
Where does that leave you? Badly hurt I would say.
Couple of questions and feel free to reply by pm if you want

refund of monies for the sofa ensured said sofa back in your possession?
If so, who paid freight?

Dealing with attempting to resolve matters outlines, info faxed & confirmed as being received?

Phone calls to ebay/paypal to level 1 staff or to managers?
Any contact with T & S in Dublin?

I have an evil mind so please excuse the questions :juggle::suspicious:

sorry to hear about this lordbrowns,
but i`ve seen these kind of stories many times,
pp & eb dont care about you!!!
they are selfish people who care about one thing & one thing only £££££££......
now,you need to learn how to work the system,
get the stealth ebook,spread you business over numerous accounts
within a few months you could be making double of what you was making before
good luck:)

:welcome; sad story but theres thousands more out there the same with many people in the same position.

go stealth its the future...you wont look back!

:peace:

Sorry to hear about your story. It's no consolation I know but the same thing happened to me 5 weeks ago. I am just starting to get my s**t together thanks to the Stealth Guide but the trauma that this has caused is immeasurable.

Like Grannytranny said, buy the stealth guide, pop the kettle on then start reading - then make notes, read the book again and then double-check that you know what your are doing. I was still asking, in my own words, "Thick" sounding questions last night but now I am totally ok with the way forward.

You are not alone, you will get through this but be prepared, I am 5 weeks in and only just now starting to bring a little money in - some months I was taking over £3k per month, that is a lot of money to lose but hopefully I am now in a better place. From feeling like I wanted to scream and cry in the early days, I now feel really excited about the future.

chin up my boy, Churchill always had a number of different ideas up his sleeve in case the first one fell on its face - the stealth guide will give you loads of options to go forward. :pry:

Hello All, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the responses and messages of support given so far. I am on a pretty steep learning curve here, so please bear with me as i try to get my scrambled brain up to speed.

To answer the points raised in response so far............

The Sofa in question was never shipped to the client in the south of France due to difficulties the delivery courier was experiencing with his schedule around the double bank holiday, so it is (and was, at the time of the dispute being raised) always in our possession. That being the case, the full refund seemed to me to be the best course of action to take (Ironically, the client was devastated at this, as the sofa was super-rare and collectable, and has since decided to purchase it from us directly). At the point of the dispute, we were days from shipping when all this blew up so, in retrospect, i guess i should consider this a blessing in disguise. However, should i mention this fact to Paypal? Could it make a difference?

I have no idea about the Paypal standing of the purchaser, but his eBay feedback was comprehensive and at 100%, and has since proved to be a thoroughly good egg (he rang Paypal in France to complain at our treatment, who told him our account would be restored once the refund had arrived. I wish. More fibs) so my gut feeling is that the problem would not lie with him directly. You might, however, tell me otherwise.

Regarding our contact with Paypal, we have furnished them with everything they have asked for (confirmation of ID, Address and proof of ownership) but to no avail. Each appeal (of which we have had 2) has been declined without any further reasoning or explanation.

I have spoken almost daily to both Paypal and eBay (but more Paypal, as they seem to be the problem) but, again, without success. From what i can gather, i have found my way through to the limitations dept. at Paypal in Dublin most times (the accent was unmissable) and have spoken to numerous representatives, but am finding myself racing down something of a dead end so far. All they seem able to do is sympathise (or sometimes not, depending on their mood) and confirm that the decision to close the account is final and cannot be appealed any further.

This was, and is, the reason i decided to post on here. I really am running out of ideas, and am desperate to keep my friends in work if at all possible.

I will be fine, but it is them, and their families, that are giving me sleepless nights currently.

As ever, any help or advice would be gratefully received. Thank you.

From what you said, it appeared the sofa was delivered after a delay. Strange he opened a disput although you were communicating?

@GB, whoa what an analysis with commentary ha - like one of those books with notes in the margins hun =P

@lordbrowns, good write-up although sadly noted. Rest assured that you are NOT the only one targetted by this pa yp al / eb ay machine - their actions and decisions can be quite nonsensical and devastating - has happened to a LOT of people, whether small-time sellers or big businesses.

Your business is NOT done yet. Not you are the threshold of implementing "stealth" tactics to get back on eb ay. Read around the forums +/- get the stealth guide for its sheer simplicity in how to return to eb ay in a "different unlinked" user account. Once you have THAT creation down, you setup MORE accounts - you spread sales.

Yes, initially, business will be slow BUT you will backups ready - 10 accounts x some transactions over time will solidify your account reputation.

Now WHILE you do this, you chat up eb ay - you might have a chance to restore the eb ay account. Forget the old pa yp al and old buyers, etc - if you can get the eb ay account working, then we can discuss other ways for people to pay.

But right now focus on stealth and how to get BACK on eb ay without using your old jaded info.

All the best.

Thanks again All.

To clarify, the French buyer told me he felt compelled to open a the Paypal dispute in order to protect himself (and, more specifically, his payment) should the issues we were experiencing regarding shipping prove to be a terminal problem. His understanding was that he had to open a dispute within 4 weeks of making payment in order for that payment to be protected? Not even sure if that is true, but that was his rationale. In his defence, at the point he opened the dispute, it was 3 weeks since he made payment (it is not easy to organise for someone to deliver a 3m x 1m x 1m sofa to a far-flung corner of the French Riviera) so it made perfect sense to him at the time and, in fairness, he has been mortified at the consequences of his actions. Not as much as we have though.

As the consensus so far seems to be to explore ebay stealth, i will buy as directed and get reading. To date, i have always been the kind of straight-laced chap who tries to do things "by the book" (no pun intended) so am a little nervous about embracing the dark side but, if needs must, then so be it.

In the meantime, all constructive thoughts on my situation as is are most welcome.

Thanks again All.

In response to rsot's message, how would i go about "chatting" ebay up with a view to being able to keep my existing ebay account?

I really don't know if this possible or realistic (probably not) but if i could keep the existing account (being identified as before, and with the long history of positive feedback that would bring, would certainly help in being able to reach our existing customers and followers, and in recruiting new customers to buy our very specific, high-value pieces in confidence) it would be of huge benefit, so i am willing to do whatever "chatting" needs to be done for this to be a possibility.

They tell me that unless i am able to resolve the issue related to the paypal account attached to that ebay account, the ebay account will remain permanently suspended. Also, it is my understanding that an ebay account has to have a valid paypal account attached to it for you to be able to buy and sell through it to any degree. Is this the case, or is there a light at the end of the tunnel, irrespective of how long the tunnel is?
(Alternative payment methods are already available, as we have our own merchant facilities through our bank).

Any help clarifying the above would be of great assistance.

Thank you.

really sorry to hear this, so you have lost your entire income? never ever put your whole finances in their hands again, diversify, if necessary and if you need to, have another part-time income that would pay some essential bills if it happened again. I suggest read the stealth guide carefully and do nothing in haste. You can get back on ebay, if you want to.

Welcome to the forums :yar:

Very sad story but it happens to the best of us.

My advice to you would be to forget about that account as hard as it may be.

Listen to the wise people on this forum and buy that Ebay Stealth guide.

Read it,read it and read it again.

You will be able to get back on your feet.This i am sure of :thumb:

I'm not so sure going stea lth is the answer. His average sales exceeds what he'll get as a limit not to mention the 1900 GBP limit on PP. It'll just be endless paperwork and exercises in futility.

One thing I would do though, is to collect as many email addresses from the eB account. Collectors tend to be repeat buyers. He can always start a website and market directly to them. Instead of PP, there are plenty of other e-wallet processors. Don't start signing up for more accounts out of desperation, that would just give them more ways to link the accounts.

Another story that shows how volatile eBay is when it is your only outlet.

Stealth is the answer if you want to get back to selling on eBay, though it wil take you some time to learn and apply the steps.

Anyway so was eBay your only outlet? I shouldn't just assume :D

Good luck in whatever you decide to do :thumb:

<----- My belief, using PP Alternatives will allow ebay accounts to last longer


"sources" My Experience

lordbrowns,
my statement about making double within a few months was optimistic & a little misleading,
i know you can do it but maybe a bit longer than a few months,
you sound like a determined individual who has alot of drive,
so,with the stealth ebook & a guidence from the forum`ites you will be able to get back to winning ways,im sure
all the best

What really makes me angry ebay is forcing UK customers to use paypal as the main payment option. In other words - no paypal no ebay. People in other countries and US have a choice in payment option but we dont.

Can someone tell me. Do paypal link your name and DOB (date of birth) to identify you?
Thanks

@lordbrowns, I'll break up my response into 3 parts, feel free to correct any factual errors.

I. Facts

1. On or about May 1, you were notified by PP that a buyer has file a dispute and your account has been limited.
2. Your eB account was limited as a result of the PP limitation.
3. You resolved the dispute by refunding the buyer.
4. You submitted all of the required documents to have the PP limitation lifted.
5. The account was reviewed and, you got the 180-day email.
6. You called PP and the lady told you to bugger off.
7. You called PP again and they escalated your case for another review.
8. You complied with all their requests for paperwork.
9. The appeal as denied.
10. You confirmed that there's no recourse with another phone call to PP.
11. The monthly transction volume on PP is a few thousand pounds. With average ticket in the hundreds to the occasion thousands.
12. Majority of payments are processed through your own merchant account.

II. Issues

1. As you look at the PP's resolution center, have you completed all the tasks?
2. Is your PP account negative?
3. Were you able to get PP to disclose that the ban was due to high risk and not potential fraud?
4. Would it hurt you finacially if PP were to keep a reserve for 60-days?
5. Do you have another sale venue with a proven track record to show PP?

Sounds Mad
 

Man this is what its like with paypal and ebay,,,but after reading your story,it sounds like the buyer as done more then filed a dispute,,,,sounds like he must have said that your item was stolen or something on that line cos what they did to you seems far to harsh even for paypal.....btw i got banned again for opening 2 ebay accounts with one paypal lol so im on my sixth account with both of them again lol

Hello All.

I remain overwhelmed at the generosity and kindness shown by those who have taken the time to consider my situation, and to offer me the chance to benefit from their expertise and experience.

I learn something new with every response. At the moment, every day is a school day.

To those who suggest a more diversified approach to our business, i couldn't agree more. Our relative success had lulled us into a false sense of security about our position prior to these events but, rest assured, never again. A dedicated website was always in our plans, but has now become a priority.

You live and learn (hopefully).

In response to the posts by "stillselling"....

1. We have completed all tasks asked of us through the resolution centre at Paypal,
2. We currently have a £0 balance on the a/c,
3. Paypal have only confirmed that they consider us an "excessive risk" and of "possible fraudulent and high-risk behaviour" to date,
4. We could comfortably allow for Paypal to hold funds for 60 days,
5. We have a proven, extensive track record of sales activity through our Natwest Merchant account.

Hope this information helps?

In response to "stillselling"'s post, i shall be calling Paypal again today to offer to accept the terms outlined as being those they may accept. I will report their response as soon as i am able. Wish me luck. My experiences so far tell me i think i will need it.

Still, hope springs eternal.

Warm regards, as always.

Not what I would do.

At the very least,if you phone, ask for a manager. Dont make any convo with anyone but a manager. Get their name as well. Where you stand right now, they do not give a toss about you. Your case is hovering at a point where they could refuse to take your call and you will get no-where.

If you read this B4 you make the call, consider not do it:doh:

Hello All.

On the advice of a particularly helpful forum member, i spoke to Paypal T&S in Ireland again, and proposed the following.

To negate all future risk to Paypal, we would be happy to agree to the following in return for Paypal to restore our account.

1. Process all future transactions through our own merchant account
2. Create a "rolling-reserve" of funds to cover any potential future chargebacks and
3. For all payments to be held for 60-180 days to, again, protect Paypal from any future chargebacks.

I spoke to a Manager (Eva, who was actually really pleasant) who escalated this proposal to the relevant department responsible for the original decision, and told me to expect an email response within 24-48 hours. She said she had never escalated such a proposal, and agreed that all offers within the proposal dealt directly with the concerns stated by Paypal as reasons why they no longer wished to do business with us.

So, til then, i shall sit and wait and hope for good news.

What more could a seller offer? Admittedly, offer 1. might not be to their liking, but i fail to see how they could reasonably refuse to accept offers 2 and 3.

I hope their response to this proposal is positive but, if nothing else, should all parts of this proposal be rejected, it will at least confirm all my worst fears, and your thoughts, about their modus operandi.

Rest assured, as soon as i hear back from them, i shall post their response.

Fingers crossed.

I wouldn't hold your breath. I was in a similar situation and was told, in no uncertain terms, once you get the 180 days limitation there is virtually no chance for that account any more.

I was doing a roaring trade selling high-end phones and was a fully registered UK company displaying VAT numbers and a business address on an eBay account which has been around since 2002 with NO negatives or even neutrals, yet they decided to limit my account for "unusual activity" in November 2010. The imbeciles even phoned me two weeks earlier to tell me that I was doing an excellent job and to "keep up the good work".

Maybe your situation is slightly different as you are selling fairly low-risk (I'd assume) items, and they may agree to your terms even though they are pretty unfair on you. Good luck though, it's certainly worth pursuing and you seem like a stand-up guy.

Hi, Lordbrowns, sorry to hear about the way you have been treated.
The same thing happened to me at te beginning of March, totally out of the blue, they shut all my accounts down and froze my paypal account for 180 days with over £500 in it.

Although i wasnt making the sort of money you were and employing people, i was supporting my family, with an income of around £800 - £1000 a month from ebay, they were making plenty of money from me in listing and final value fees, paypal were making plenty of money in payment processing fees, but after one unsubstantiated anonymouse complaint from what i am 99% sure was a competitor who was playing dirty, they destrioyed my business overnight!

2 months down the line, my savings accounts are all empty, i dont know how i am going to pay my mortgage this month, i have been doing some casual work where i can find it to get some money through the doors while i am rebuilding my business - unfortunately eb ay are such big players that you need to sell on there to get any kind of serious income, and they know it and do whatever they please to whoever they please and know they have no recourse whatsoever.

If nothing else, it is a terrible way to run a business, they are literally turning away money from loads of sellers on a regular basis, because of some over-paranoid business model that must have been dreamed up by a madman!

However, there is a small light at the end of the tunnel for me, i bought and digested the stealth guide, i have just opened up my 4th stealth account and i am selling again, just not at the level i was before though because of their ridiculous listing limitations on all new accounts, which seem to be done at random as well, but i said to myself 3-6 months to build the business back up again, and it looks like i was about right with that, am hoping i will be able to list unlimited amlunts on at least one account soon!

I have learned a very valuable lesson though, never to keep my eggs all in one basket, i am looking at other ways to make money both online and offline, and even with ebay i wil never again have 2 accoutns linked together if i can help it, if it happens to me again for any reason i will have other accoutns ready to go.

Several people on this forum have recommended having 10 separate eb and ppal accounts, which is my aim, 4 down 6 to go! This really does seem like good advice, and this forum is full of very helpful people, so i do wish you the best of luck with them!

I really wouldnt hold out much hope of appealing to any sense of reason with anyone at ppal though, it really does seem like once they have made their minds up that is that, i do strongly suggest you dont pin all your hopes on them giving you any kind of reinstatement, get a few spare unlinked accounts started asap, i generally leave a few days at least before opening one, even if they do by some miracle reinstate your account, you will be future-proofing yourself by getting other accounts up and running, and you know they will be going through your reinstated account with a fine tooth comb looking for the slightest of reasons to pull the plug on you again and keep your money!

Best of luck, do keep us all informed of the outcome!

Please don't try to copy what OP has done. There are communications that you're not aware of.

Don't take PP for idiots, beyond the CS reps, they actually have experts working in loss prevention. If you sell foo foo, can't provide REAL paperwork, and can't provide customer service up to eB standards, just move along, there's nothing to see here.

Wow,I am sorry to heard that man.
Something i dont really understand is,Why this idiots pp and ebay close an accounts for 1 stupid complaint or just cause the buyer didn't liked what he buy?.
Who will drive more money to their accounts? buyers or sellers?..SELLERS!!
why this idiots always stay at the buyer side,a person who use their sites once a year or maybe 2 and let the sellers suffer all humilliations..
Damn i wish google or another famous place open a crowded auction site to dump ebay and pp.Amen

Hello All.

You will be unsurprised to hear that my proposal was turned down point blank, without any explanation as to why. Unbelievable.

That being the case, whilst i had the T&S Manager on the phone yesterday afternoon, i suggested that the only course of action i believed was left open to me was to request all information held on our business account by Paypal under the Data Protection Act, with a view to having it poured over by our solicitor, prior to taking our case to the FSA & Ombudsman & MP & National/Local Press & BBC Watchdog.

Whilst being our least preferred course of action, as going through this process was likely to cost all concerned a considerable amount of money, we clearly had nothing else to lose (including our business) so were committed to taking this matter as far as was legally and morally possible.

Her immediate response was to offer to re-forward this case to "Executive Escalations" (the layers of management at Paypal would appear to be never-ending) for their consideration. I, of course, agreed to her offer to do this, and was told i should expect a response within 48-72 hours.

So, the dance continues.

Certainly, i expect the same outcome as before but, if that is to be the case, it will at least allow us to exhibit to whoever we do take our case to that, not only are we an entirely genuine, honest, transparent and successful independent online retailer of fine used furniture, but that we have gone to the ends-of-the-earth to resolve and negate any outstanding or future issues to the satisfaction of Paypal.

I do not see how much more compliant we could offer to be?

As ever, a thousand thanks for those who are still prepared to offer their thoughts and advice on this episode as, not only are you educating and equipping us regarding the harsh realities of life when dealing with Paypal, your messages of support continue to galvanise us through this difficult time.

I will report back as soon as i have more to share.

Warm regards.

sorry cant help but.......
 

.....but im in the same boat!
paypal accnt was running fine until i hit the £1900 limit.
they wanted verification, which i did, green ticks everywhere.
but they still wanted more, ie docs!
now, this is where the fun starts, cos the accnt was "creative", and in my rush, i forgot to jot down ALL the details, like my creative DOB, etc etc.
so, you guessed it, now they wanted my DOB, which i didnt remember!

tried the old trick of entering wrong details 3 times, in the hope that they'd give me the coice of email verification, but no!
they asked for id documents.
oh well, time to don my creative hat again......;)

someone told me about karma....well, the amount of bad karma paypal have accumulated over the years by annoying off so many people, they'll all probably be reincarnated as ticks at the mouth of a camel's rear!
!

I like the options you mentioned- that's the way to go because I really don't think you will get anywhere with the people in Ireland.

I'm also with Daz - I've given myself 3-6 months to get up and running again even though my savings are dwindling I have managed to start selling again and am doing about 1/3 of my original sales, just need to build things up. However, my personal website is also up and running, no sales yet but it looks good - just need to promote it.

Keep the faith, all hail Aspkin :hail:

:amen:

@lordbrowns, I found the words "potentially fraudulent" in PP's original response to you rather harsh considering they've decided to part ways. We have focused on the high risk part, maybe the problem was the potential fraud all along.

Stripping out all the extenuating circumstances, this is what's left. You sold a piece of funiture for 2000GBP and for 3 weeks nothing happened. It wasn't until the buyer filed a claim before you refunded him fully. If you had criminal intentions, you could've gotten away with a lot more in that timeframe.

We all thought by providing the refund, it's the end of that issue. That could be where the PP differ from us. It's up to you to document and demonstrate to PP that the delay is an one off event despite your best effort. Would you be able to get some sort of collaborating letter from the courier? Or a log of phone calls you made to the courier? Have you forwarded all your email correspondences with the buyer to PP? I understand that the buyer spoke with PP regarding the problem, but maybe PP uk is not aware of that.

Stay strong.

Hmm - you put it a lot better than most of us do - you are obviously an accomplished wordsmith. ;)

I do know that both EB and PP dread adverse publicity and it could well be that because of the level of business that went through your account they may view you a lot differently to the usual oicks (thats me!) that make these kinds of threats. They may well view it that you could, and would, manage to do the things you state (Forget Watchdog - it aint going to happen)

I would make one point - the 'enemy' undoubtably troll these forums and from the information you have already posted it would not be difficult to ascertain who you are on their systems. If you do manage to get fully reinstated it will only be a matter of time before you are blown out of the water again. The 'enemy' does not like its decisions questioned or over turned.

Whatever the outcome you must take steps to ensure this does not happen again - you know by now how to do it!:thumb:

I hope you get where you want to be:yar:

yes that is a very offensive term and actually sometimes they do not even write 'potentially' beforehand, they say we have reason to believe you WILL be fraudulent or give bad customer experience, phrases like that, and you can literally not understand that they are referring to you. Dont be so sure about watchdog, it will be on there, the scale is so vast though, what can they do, I mean it wont stop people using this monopoly. Understand the rules of the game, do not leave large sums in your balance, do not use your real address, this is what I would advise to anyone even a first timer starting a business with them.......

Good advice!!:clap:

lordbrowns, your story has really touched a nerve with me, and i am really keen to hear how you got on with executive escalations at pay p al, do you have any updates for us all?

Even if they have reinstated your account and everyting is hunky dory again, it would be nice for all of us in this forum to know that, it may provide a small ray of hope to somebody else in your situation!

I guess the OP must have sorted out his problems. Would have been nice to hear the outcome though:pop2:

(in a voice of mystery and wisdom)

grannytrannyeeeee.......

have faaaaith my friend....

all....is not losssst

he could still be awaiting the outcomeeee........

dont worry......he is on the path to enlightenment

(and vanishes in a puff of smoke)

sorry,been watching stargate SG1,got abit carried away

Mr GTB - I really think you need some help, now, my doctor can see you tomorrow at 4.30 ..... LOL:clap:

pmsl:D

i know man

heeeelp meeeee!