Advice - Angry Buyer

Melissa1971 · #1 02-06-2011

This is what I got this morning from a customer, he bought an appliance from me

I received the oven. To my surprise the supposedly new ***** that I paid a considerable amount of money for is actually USED. You sold me a used oven that you claimed on Amazon.com was new. How do I know its used. Because it was making strange noises upon first use and when I opened up the power arm I found the drive belt in tatters about ready to break. The belt was yellow (they are normally orange when new), worn and there were pieces of it all throughout the power head. I was suspicious as soon as I saw the box and noticed it had been previously opened. My suspicions grew when I opened the box to find no instructions or other paper inside (which comes with a new one of these). So basically you sold me a used item that you tried to clean up and pass off as new. I could have paid $60 for this crap on Ebay. It's vendors like you that make me want to avoid using Amazon at all. I am completely disgusted by this.

My reply-

I am sorry you don't like the oven and yes, you paid alot for it no doubt. This was a Christmas Gift from my brother in law who bought it new. I will ask him.... but what he indicated was that it was on sale and it was an older model. Considering he owns one of the largest companies in our County, well he buys new items.

DO I believe it could have been used? yes I think it is possible someone could have returned it and they resold it to him. But nothing of what you are describing to me here. Considering it is the second newest model, they have made a newer one since, it is realistic to think it could have been returned. In the future, I will avoid selling these larger appliances (even if they are new )

Due to the nature of this email, am considering having you go thru Amazon for your refund. If I refund you, it is not on record and you are alloted only so many refunds. I'll make sure there is money for you but it sounds like we may have serious barries regarding communcaiton issues that if I attempt to do this without guidance, I will regret it.* They expect civility and professionalism at all times, they have stringent standards for Sellers so there is no need to stop buying from them because of a bad purchase. I've had things similar to this nature occur and never spoke in the manner you have. I'll get back to you on what they say, and learn how to do a refund thru the account in general. Thanks for letting me know, and I am sorry it wasn't what it should have been

Also sent him this reply one minute later-

I will get back to you today, as soon as I can. And what I meant about similar issues is I've paid for large items as you have and received a used item in its place but never spoke in the manner you have to them.
Never even considered it.

Anyhow you shouldn't have to wait long, it's about 7:30 am and I believe their offices will be open in a few hours.

Ok so...the*** I sent him was brand new. My brother in law is filthy rich no way did he buy a used ***. I checked it to ensure it was complete because once I sold a Printer and it was brand new but not complete. The customer opened it and a cord and software was missing. Spoke to Cannon who mailed it to her and explained to me that this isn't that uncommon, that mistakes happen. So one of their employees didn't do it right.

I was up all night, not sure if I have a sinus infection but my perceptions are all wrong because i am sick. Do these responses seem alright? I hope I am not too crabby, or maybe I was too soft, heck I have no idea right now. What could I have done better?

Also he hit the button to reply back to me, he didn't hit the defective item button etc... and I assumed Amazon was open Sundays but maybe not. so I can just refund him but he's kinda irate so I don't know what to do. He may go off if I ask him to return it but I would like to see it (then I'd have to pay $24 to have it returned though)

.

slapped · #2 02-06-2011

Well your Buyer is angry,,and Yes it is a Little Childish for someone to use the Language that Your Buyer chose to Use in his E-Mail to you,,,,However,,

You sold him something he is Not satisified with,,,Now Understand what YOU Did,,,,

YOU Listed an Oven as NEW,,then in YOUR own E-Mail you Admit that:

1) it was a Gift from your Brother in Law
2) That it Is Possible that it was Used,,that it Might have been a Customer return

And you Defend yourself by Saying that your Brother in Law is Filthy Rich,,therefore the Oven is New,,,then you Mention a Printer you sold,,so Because there was an issue with a Printer there Must be one with an Oven???,,,,Then you talk about PROFESSIONALISM,,,Do you have ANY Idea what that Makes you as the Seller Look Like??

A Professional Seller KNOWS ALL About the Things they are selling,,,Where they come from,,,If they are New or Used,,Grey Market or Intended Market,,,Warranty information ALL that and MORE

When Someone Buys Something on Amazon or Anywhere THIS is the type of Seller that they "EnVision" They are dealing with,,,NOT Someone that is trying to Get rid of an Unwanted Gift,,,,Why did you Not simply list it as an Unwanted gift,,,I Know,,You would not have gotten as Much Money for it,,,,,,

My Advice Issue a Full REFUND and move on,,,and also to be a Little more careful as to how you list items for sale,,,

Melissa1971 · #3 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapped

Well your Buyer is angry,,and Yes it is a Little Childish for someone to use the Language that Your Buyer chose to Use in his E-Mail to you,,,,However,,

You sold him something he is Not satisified with,,,Now Understand what YOU Did,,,,

YOU Listed an Oven as NEW,,then in YOUR own E-Mail you Admit that:

1) it was a Gift from your Brother in Law
2) That it Is Possible that it was Used,,that it Might have been a Customer return

And you Defend yourself by Saying that your Brother in Law is Filthy Rich,,therefore the Oven is New,,,then you Mention a Printer you sold,,so Because there was an issue with a Printer there Must be one with an Oven???,,,,Then you talk about PROFESSIONALISM,,,Do you have ANY Idea what that Makes you as the Seller Look Like??

A Professional Seller KNOWS ALL About the Things they are selling,,,Where they come from,,,If they are New or Used,,Grey Market or Intended Market,,,Warranty information ALL that and MORE

When Someone Buys Something on Amazon or Anywhere THIS is the type of Seller that they "EnVision" They are dealing with,,,NOT Someone that is trying to Get rid of an Unwanted Gift,,,,Why did you Not simply list it as an Unwanted gift,,,I Know,,You would not have gotten as Much Money for it,,,,,,

My Advice Issue a Full REFUND and move on,,,and also to be a Little more careful as to how you list items for sale,,,

would you re-read ONLY our communication, I will go bold it now

The last part I wrote was to the forum, not my customer.

Sorry I have a 100 degree temp, down from 103 but had to talk to him as you know or he might go ballistic

Melissa1971 · #4 02-06-2011

The item was brand new. My husband even stapled it back as if it had not been opened. It was mentioned in the item condition it was a Christmas Gift. It was sealed but I know some companies repackage things that are used and sell them as new. But nothing as he described but maybe that is what happened and he is exaggerating. Cause it was SEALED and had all the paperwork. My husband is a contractor so he has those special tools, staplers and stuff here at the house.

I sent it to him Parcel Post paying $5 more so he could retrieve it from the local post office. I want him to have a refund, I refund everyone for whatever reason but when they start saying stuff that isn't true, then I feel guilty that if I don't let Amazon know, then he may do it again.

No I don't know that much about the item of where it comes from etc..only the small blurb of what my brother in law told me

MtnDew · #5 02-06-2011

buyer wins here if you like your account

if you didnt open it up how do you know he's not telling the truth? not picking at ya but just saying

Melissa1971 · #6 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtnDew

buyer wins here if you like your account

if you didnt open it up how do you know he's not telling the truth? not picking at ya but just saying

Win? It's not a contest. I refund everyone no matter the reason.

If he acts this way, my concern is can I trust him to mail it? I usually send cash. I hate to send a check cause it has our personal info and he sounds off.

There is not $200 in my Amazon account at the moment either. And how would I let Amazon know.

Read his description. No way do I believe even if I stretched it to think the Company had accidently put a used one in (as Cannon told me they've done) do I believe it would look like that. How i have no idea

HE is describing a very worn item, not the item I sent him. And it had the paperwork too, I checked it. He is lying.

MtnDew · #7 02-06-2011

Im sorry i wasnt trying to be a smart butt

...i've learned to just let these things roll off not worth getting worked up over. part of doing business

another reason to have a good return addy

Melissa1971 · #8 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtnDew

Im sorry i wasnt trying to be a smart butt

...i've learned to just let these things roll off not worth getting worked up over. part of doing business

another reason to have a good return addy

No problem, you're ok

! thanks for replying, I appreciate it. He sounds calmer but he's really telling lies. When I saw it was being sent to an Apartment, I really wanted to cancel the transaction cause somehow i knew what would happen.

I will refund him via mail but contact Amazon before sending it off.

Bang · #9 02-06-2011

To rap it up.... Just refund the buyer and move on. Look over yourself and see where you went wrong. There are errors here. Since this is Amazon, I recommend you to refund without a fight.

Edit: After reading your post... I personally do not ship to apartments or businesses. I don't have time for their garbage lol.

Melissa1971 · #10 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang

To rap it up.... Just refund the buyer and move on. Look over yourself and see where you went wrong. There are errors here. Since this is Amazon, I recommend you to refund without a fight.

Edit: After reading your post... I personally do not ship to apartments or businesses. I don't have time for their garbage lol.

Yeah I understand. That is appealing for sure. I sure wished I'd had canceled this or noticed my error before listing it but he's a Con so the result would always be the same. A no win situation

except he is saying it is essentially non functioning, looks like junk etc..but in a calmer fashion
They stoned people in the bible for stealing and I am helping him if I just give him money, let him keep the item without notifying Amazon.

It technically doesn't qualify as brand new but it certainly is Like New.

If I just refund him, that will be letting him loose to scan all of you and everyone else in the Amazon world. I have to contact Amazon. I know many have had their problems with Amazon and they are not perfect, maybe I'll be booted but I can't help him by being silent. Didn't read all of his junk, lists of things wrong with it.

They really need to review his account. It is like 3, 4 or 5 refunds a person can have at Amazon so I wonder how many he has. But I will refund him either way, but if the Amazon Rep indicates his background is shady, I will make him send it back first

Melissa1971 · #11 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang

Edit: After reading your post... I personally do not ship to apartments or businesses. I don't have time for their garbage lol.

Well at least not big items

Little items I've had no issues with apartments. I have about 215 transactions with 55 feedbacks (positive) no refunds or chargebacks or a-z in customer metrics, probably 5 refunds total not in metrics and just one late shipment but that was their computer error

If I cut and pasted my feedback, you guys would not believe it. Raving feedback, long paragraphs and it is all cause I refund the difference in shipping and leave a hand written note. But you just never know...my days could be numbered :>

kris · #12 02-06-2011

If it was me, I would probably try offering him a choice. Send it back to me for a full refund, or offer a partial refund if he wants to keep it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang

Edit: After reading your post... I personally do not ship to apartments or businesses. I don't have time for their garbage lol.

What do you mean you dont ship to apartments or businesses? What do you do if someone places an order? Cancel it?

And whats so bad about apartments and businesses anyways?

oompaloompa · #13 02-06-2011

I think you emphasied him speaking to you in the brusque manner a little too much, but generally you did the right thing. Honestly until you look at it, you cant tell if it was used because it may have been and you didnt know. Buyers tend to exaggerate faults to get what they want, Ive noticed this, if it has a scratch then suddenly its damaged or broken etc... as for paperwork, well that is an obvious lie. Either way scammer or fussy, I would offer a partial refund and let him keep it if at all possible, too much hassle any other way for postage.

feel better soon, my daughter has a temp at the mo, intestinal bug going round....puke city here...

Melissa1971 · #14 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

I think you emphasied him speaking to you in the brusque manner a little too much, but generally you did the right thing. Honestly until you look at it, you cant tell if it was used because it may have been and you didnt know. Buyers tend to exaggerate faults to get what they want, Ive noticed this, if it has a scratch then suddenly its damaged or broken etc... as for paperwork, well that is an obvious lie. Either way scammer or fussy, I would offer a partial refund and let him keep it if at all possible, too much hassle any other way for postage.

feel better soon, my daughter has a temp at the mo, intestinal bug going round....puke city here...

Thanks, good advice. But he won't take a partial refund yet that is what I will do. I am lower than dirt who totally screwed him over on purpose and should worry about my reputation (threat? LOL!) I was going to offer a partial refund and a new replacement belt from the company since he tampered with it under the guise of knowing how to fix it. But he won't accept it, he wants to keep the brand new on I sent him and be paid for it.
It appears my Brother in Law is right. They come taped with shipping tape and according to him, I'd be a dirty dog not to do everything in my power to ensure the order is correct. So opening it up and re-taping it makes sense.

I will probably need to have him go through my Attorney friend, no more abuse. He's gone too far. He will avoid me contacting Amazon at all costs (so bad feedback isn't a concern either despite the veiled threats) most don't want to draw Amazons attention to their thieving tactics.

Melissa1971 · #15 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by kris

If it was me, I would probably try offering him a choice. Send it back to me for a full refund, or offer a partial refund if he wants to keep it.
What do you mean you dont ship to apartments or businesses? What do you do if someone places an order? Cancel it?

And whats so bad about apartments and businesses anyways?

He already tampered with it with the intent to send me his old one back to me. SO he voided the warranty. That is what I see coming. It is clear what he is describing is a very worn model, nothing like we sent him. Interior and Exterior, he tried to fix it coming off as if he knew it well. Actually he said he's owned this model before, down to knowing the interior colors and inner workings

But Companies often surprise by offering to fix things for free, discounting the item that needs replacing. He says he already attempted to fix but as expected, he won't repeat that. He wants to keep the new one and keep my $200 or so dollars

My Attorney friend said he made a huge mistake tampering with it voiding the return. So if needed he will send him a letter I will type up and he can edit it, goes faster that way. Before that I will allow him opportunity to honor his amazon user agreement without putdowns by being open to giving me the serial number and contacting the company at least. He lives in an Apartment so yes, I considered canceling the transaction as my other scammer lived in an Apartment. Normally I sell smaller items and never had problems with apartment dwellers

I need to stop refunding the "overage" postage because people put raving paragraphs in feedback about it. I wonder if scammers seem me as a bank

Free gifts and money

Melissa1971 · #16 02-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

I think you emphasied him speaking to you in the brusque manner a little too much, but generally you did the right thing. Honestly until you look at it, you cant tell if it was used because it may have been and you didnt know. Buyers tend to exaggerate faults to get what they want, Ive noticed this, if it has a scratch then suddenly its damaged or broken etc... as for paperwork, well that is an obvious lie. Either way scammer or fussy, I would offer a partial refund and let him keep it if at all possible, too much hassle any other way for postage.

feel better soon, my daughter has a temp at the mo, intestinal bug going round....puke city here...

Glad we aren't puking, poor thing.
I hope she gets better too. Sounds like the flu.
So many here have sinus infections but I am the last in the family to get it

tokie · #17 02-07-2011

I forgot what was already been transpired between you and the buyer but try to desolve the situation as much as you can, at this point letting it get anymore heated will do no good in either case.

Tell him you are a bit confused at the problems he is experiencing and would like to see photographs of the issues he is talking about as you photograph all items that you sell and would like to compare as possibly he was sent the wrong item *just saying*. In doing this you

A.Get to make sure he is in fact speaking of your product
b.Get to see if he has done any damage in taking things apart.
c.See if thier is actually any problems at all with the item and he is simply not trying to pay you.
d.even take the time to take the photos or decide his complaning is going to be more trouble then he bargained for.

If he does bring the issue to amazon you can easily answer that you have requested these photo's in attemp to resolve the situation.

Buyers have a lot of chance of being schemed, played, ripped off etc but only the sellers know how much crap we have to put up with from buyers that are constantly trying to get partial refunds, full refunds and bs returns, etc, ect

Just the other day I sold 3 Nintendo DS games (purchased at gamestop) to someone with over 3000 feeback, I figured no problems, I get an email the next day "Uhmmm these games are counterfiet they do not work in the DSI and the manual is a cheap copy".

Now belive I have seen counterfiet DS games and in fact the newer ones play in a DSI no problem but the fact is these were not counterfiet and I have the receipts from gamestop where they were purchased, obvisouly this buyer has been around ebay long enough to know exactly what to say and is probably planning on sending me some counterfeit crap back and keep the real one to re-sell..........sorry wont happen, I have pictures and recipts of the items I sold but you do have to protect yourself as a seller these days.

tokie · #18 02-07-2011

Also only you know if you were wrong and if so, refund the money and move on it defitanly is not worth the trouble

GreenBean · #19 02-07-2011

Your reply makes you sound unprofessional & a tad self-righteous. WTHeck wants to hear about your brother. never tell a buyer anything they do not need to know. YOU keep the upper hand.
Customer is not happy. It's NOT an item you purchased but got given. You're even unsure yourself about what it was like. Better approach 'Let's arrange a refund at once. I am sorry you were inconvenienced'.

I am sorry you are poorly with a temperature. But that's the very time you don't do involved business.... see how muddled this all got? At the 1st email, an acknowledgement of receipt, no comments and I will advise your further what we can do to resolve this. Hit send, take antibiotics, climb into bed, have a nap & wake up feeling better

Then if you are not bemuddled, look at your options. Still bemuddled? Back to bed. You have sent an email advising you are not ignoring the situation...buyer can wait

This talking to attorney friends has little use unless you are taking the buyer to court. Stop tripping yourself in who is more right. It's a sale that went wrong.

Hope you feel better soon,Melissa

slapped · #20 02-07-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa1971

would you re-read ONLY our communication, I will go bold it now

The last part I wrote was to the forum, not my customer.

Sorry I have a 100 degree temp, down from 103 but had to talk to him as you know or he might go ballistic

,,Sorry,,I Did indeed Believe that your Comments to the Forum were also part of your Response to your Buyer,,,But still,,,,Yours are NOT the actions of a Polished Professional Seller,,,

This thread is reading more and more like you looking for advice on How to WIN this thing,,as opposed to how to handle it,,,Fact is you Cannot Win,,Amazon will Not let you,,at the end of the day the Buyer will get a Full refund with or without your consent,,,,so there is no way to win,,,,

Returns and Customer Dissatisfaction (Up to a Certain Degree) are Simply Part of the Business in order to succede your MUST be able to deal with them Successfully when they occur,,of course keeping those occurances to a Minimum is the KEY,,,

You Need to offer a Refund,,a Partial one where the Buyer Keeps the Oven is Preferable,,,but if it has to be a Full Refund,,So be it,,,

and all this Talk about Lawyer Friends,,,come on now,,,,I think you Tempature might be affecting your Judgement,,,

I will say it again,,,Refund and Move on,,,there are PLENTY More buyers out there,,,

Melissa1971 · #21 02-07-2011

I am going to have him mail the item to my friend at his Law Office. So I am at peace and happy with it. They usually ask the address of where to mail it to though he may balk. All I have to do is offer. He isn't allowing any courteous communication, just accusations, veiled threats etc without any true resolution so I will end it there with that offer and looking into the Company to learn about the seal possibly
Sorry I cannot include our last communication which was really bad but the good buyers make up for it. And I sold a couple hundred dollars on Ebay today, the store thing may work out well. So that is positive. Thanks to everyone. I took some and left some. Your opinions are appreciated

Melissa1971 · #22 02-07-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapped

,,Sorry,,I Did indeed Believe that your Comments to the Forum were also part of your Response to your Buyer,,,But still,,,,Yours are NOT the actions of a Polished Professional Seller,,,

This thread is reading more and more like you looking for advice on How to WIN this thing,,as opposed to how to handle it,,,Fact is you Cannot Win,,Amazon will Not let you,,at the end of the day the Buyer will get a Full refund with or without your consent,,,,so there is no way to win,,,,

Well that may be the usual process but you just never know. No there is no need to be "professional" to someone who is abusive. the last communication went way too far. All I can control is my actions. Whether they refund him doesn't matter to me, it's all good.

Quote:

Returns and Customer Dissatisfaction (Up to a Certain Degree) are Simply Part of the Business in order to succede your MUST be able to deal with them Successfully when they occur,,of course keeping those occurances to a Minimum is the KEY,,,

I agree, good thinking. So far it's been great with all my accounts, got one neg once from a Seller years ago (I was the buyer) but overall all issues have not resulted in anything major. That's been a blessing

Quote:

You Need to offer a Refund,,a Partial one where the Buyer Keeps the Oven is Preferable,,,but if it has to be a Full Refund,,So be it,,,

Then he will go on to do it to others though I am open to a partial refund. To just refund would've been great but wow, what a load he dumped on me. Had a few rude buyers who blamed me, I was nice and one sent me my brand new item back! wow that was neat. But nothing like him.

Quote:

and all this Talk about Lawyer Friends,,,come on now,,,,I think you Tempature might be affecting your Judgement,,,I will say it again,,,Refund and Move on,,,there are PLENTY More buyers out there,,,

I only have one lawyer friend, and he has helped me in problems when this happened before. My other scammer left no bad feedback nor A-Z but I've felt bad I paid him off to keep my account. Needed to at the time so that's fine but I cannot contribute to a thief, just can't. But Amazon is free to refund him on my behalf