Amazon Stole Funds

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

Amazon suspended my account 8 months ago for forged manipulated documents on a real document with my real account information.

Piazza1234,

What exactly does the bold text mean then?

In other cases, this has meant amazon does not accept your documents because they can not confirm their origins.
I am just trying to see if you might avoid the expenses you could incur.

[chaichaoyi]

In Amazon's defense:

1) It is fair for Amazon to demand and enforce high standards to satisfy customers, and Amazon is doing a great job kicking out those who fail (for being incompetent, inexperienced, or just unlucky). If you do not agree with the standards, do not join Amazon.
2) Amazon does not have to give a suspended seller a second chance. In fact, it should not because otherwise suspension has no deterring power.
3) For those who have burned their real-info account, using doc forgery to get back is a gray practice -- definitely not a natural right, and Amazon is entitled to pursue and re-suspend those sellers. Again, this is to keep the deterring power of 1) so that the punishment does not look like a joke.
4) For accounts with f*** info, Amazon is entitled to refuse fund disbursement. Most likely the money will be turned over to the authority as "unclaimed", and even if Amazon keeps the money and report it as part of profit, I think it is a fair game.

In short, playing stealth is making a calculated gamble against Amazon. Good players win money IN AVERAGE, and bad ones lose money to Amazon and eventually quit. This is a fair game between two parties of different, and sometimes contrary, motives and agenda. Morally, we are no worse/better than Amazon. Personally, I've lost thousands of dollars to Amazon, but I do my best recovering them and when I fail, I just move on.

Describing oneself as a victim and describing Amazon as a thief is pure non-sense. If this is really what your relationship to Amazon looks like, my advice is: keep a distance from Amazon as you would with a thief. Quit Amazon, and be happier.

[Pizza1234]

Can no one read?


Greenbean, read the capital word slowly so you understand it is real information.

"Amazon suspended my account 8 months ago for forged manipulated documents on a REAL DOCUMENT with my REAL ACCOUNT INFORMATION"


chaichaoyi

I was not playing stealth do you just like to write without any context? You need to reread the post. The account information is real. the document is real. Amazon did in fact steal the funds as the document is 100% REAL.


Please read the original post before anyone posts. If you are unable to understand the situation please don't attempt to offer advice.

[Gladiator]

You improperly worded the first post which drove the confusion. Continue to be rude to long time posters and you aren’t getting any help.

If it’s been over 90 days, hire a lawyer. Go to arbitration or file with an AA accredited arbitration group yourself, pay the average opening cost, go get your money and fees back.

There’s no magic trick anyone on here can do to help you.

[GreenBean]

Do you truly think I do not get the part about your account being real, your paperwork real .
But why did amazon not grasp this and suspend your account & retain funds.

Quite simply, and I am starting to not give a damn, what made amazon make accusation of forged documents?

Was anything wrong with the quality of the documents?

Where they in another language?

Was anything blacked out?

[Pizza1234]

Okay, thanks for your reply GreenBean.

I took a picture with a new phone of the document, I did not actually scan it. The quality is good. The pricing was the only thing blacked out with a marker.

They did not contact the company that issued the invoice to confirm the order number. Has anyone experienced anything similar?

[Pizza1234]

This guy had the same situation and found a way to reinstate his account.

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/for...-amazon/389809

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

Please read the original post before anyone posts. If you are unable to understand the situation please don't attempt to offer advice.

I read between the lines, and I apologize if I did it a bit too much.

I just doubt that you are absolutely clean and the evil Amazon just grabbed your money simply because it can.

At the very least, even if you did submit legit doc and Amazon failed to acknowledge it, it is very likely that it is a genuine misunderstanding. Calling Amazon a thief implies you "know" something that you cannot substantiate and make allegation that I cannot agree with.

I am not an Amazon employee. Amazon also took my money before. But I am a happy Amazon buyer, and, most of the time, also a happy Amazon seller because it enables me to make a decent living.

I won't allow someone to call my Dear Amazon a thief without proper evidence.

If you keep up with your attitude, you can kiss your Amazon career as well as this forum goodbye.

[Pizza1234]

chaichaoyi

You doubt I am telling the truth, but if I am telling the truth it must be a misunderstanding? And if i continue with an attitude I will forfeit my amazon career?

LOL

You dont believe that Amazon ever steals?


Provide me your seller user name on an account you have legit documents and I can make sure amazon shuts down your account and steals from you too. We can easily test your theory.

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

chaichaoyi




Provide me your seller user name on an account you have legit documents and I can make sure amazon shuts down your account and steals from you too. We can easily test your theory.

Again, you are using the word "steal" in a wrong way.

I believe Amazon punishes a seller if Amazon BELIEVES the seller is hurting the buyers' customer experience. The belief can be based on wrong judgement -- when that happens, I do my best to convince Amazon.

You seem to believe Amazon regularly takes money from sellers just to generate revenue. i.e. taking money is an integral part of their business model.

To act on your belief, you should stay away from Amazon so you do not get hurt.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by chaichaoyi

Again, you are using the word "steal" in a wrong way.

I believe Amazon punishes a seller if Amazon BELIEVES the seller is hurting the buyers' customer experience. The belief can be based on wrong judgement -- when that happens, I do my best to convince Amazon.

You seem to believe Amazon regularly takes money from sellers just to generate revenue. i.e. taking money is an integral part of their business model.

To act on your belief, you should stay away from Amazon so you do not get hurt.

Um...

You do realize, TOS or not...wrong judgment or not, that it's completely wrong for Amazon to seize someone else's money and be the judge, jury and executioner right? Your reply that they should just stay away from them if they don't want to get hurt clearly shows their business model is unconscionable (one sided) so your defense and dismissal of their issues are off base.

I didn't like their tone towards members helping them, but blind defense of Amazon's policies aren't helping. If he didn't ⊗⊗⊗⊗ documents and Amazon comes to the belief they did, their business model does in fact allow them to take the money for their benefit. You really don't believe it's just a small sector of sellers they do this to? This is a common problem, not just on Amazon. Going Gollum for them like they're your precious won't change the fact that Amazon steps on small sellers, large businesses and everyone in between for their benefit.

[oompaloompa]

OP is saying amazon said the docs were fa ke but they were not.

In which case, a lawyer or notary verifying your docs in person and writing a letter, might help.

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Um...

You do realize, TOS or not...wrong judgment or not, that it's completely wrong for Amazon to seize someone else's money and be the judge, jury and executioner right? Your reply that they should just stay away from them if they don't want to get hurt clearly shows their business model is unconscionable (one sided) so your defense and dismissal of their issues are off base.

No. I am just asking the OP to be consistent in words and action. IF he truly believes Amazon is thief, he should stay away.

Of course, I disagree and I love Amazon (even if Amazon occasionally froze my money and refused to return them). That's why I continue selling on Amazon -- it is a love/hate relationship, but most of the time, love dominates.

European KYC law already REQUIRES Amazon to proactively act as judge, jury and executioner (of course, with ex post arbitration process as protection). It would be a big hassle if US follows the footstep, but in terms of "principles", "legal basis" and "ethics", I don't see why such practices are "wrong".

[Pizza1234]

chaichaoyi,

Now you are just being obtuse. I am trying to get my funds back that they stole. Who said I wasn't going to stay away after? If you are unwilling to read the original post or any post after, please stop commenting.

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

chaichaoyi,

Now you are just being obtuse. I am trying to get my funds back that they stole. Who said I wasn't going to stay away after? If you are unwilling to read the original post or any post after, please stop commenting.

I was advising you to stay away from the "thief", who "stole" your money and (based on your characterization) will keep stealing from you unless you leave Amazon altogether. Fair advice?

Regarding your current attempt to recover your stolen money from the thief, I wish you good luck working it out with this kind of "thief-victim" self-pitying attitude.

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

chaichaoyi,

Now you are just being obtuse. I am trying to get my funds back that they stole. Who said I wasn't going to stay away after? If you are unwilling to read the original post or any post after, please stop commenting.

You may think I was picking on you. But I truly find trouble accepting your attitude and as an example, here is how I will post a thread if I were you:

"My account was suspended because my doc did not pass verification. My doc was authentic/f***/hybrid/any-honest-description .................... what should I do to work this out and reinstate my account".

Period.

Saying "thief", "stole", "I am innocent and do not deserve this unfair treatment" are all pointless. Amazon is doing its job, and you are making a living. It's not a bad-guy-vs-good-guy situation.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by chaichaoyi

I was advising you to stay away from the "thief", who "stole" your money and (based on your characterization) will keep stealing from you unless you leave Amazon altogether. Fair advice?

Regarding your current attempt to recover your stolen money from the thief, I wish you good luck working it out with this kind of "thief-victim" self-pitying attitude.

Definition of thief - a person who steals another person's property, especially by stealth and without using force or threat of violence.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/thief

Definition of steal - take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/steal

Pretty sure falsely accusing someone of supplying ⊗⊗⊗⊗ documents when they didn’t with no “intention” of returning the money (property) is stealing.

When cops illegally seize money under civil forfeiture laws they get sued and media blasted for “stealing”.

I honestly don’t know if you’re just trolling because you’re being pedantic over words that fit his narrative.

[johnwick1]

This happened to me as well. I wonder if arbitration is needed.

[chaichaoyi]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Definition of steal - take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
.

Yes, that's the right direction.

On legal rights: it is in the TOS, you give the rights to them when you eagerly click YES and beg to join Amazon seller community. And trust me, legally, it is waterproof, you can't challenge that clause in court.

On intention: Amazon contacts you and offers a recourse for conditional return. A thief stays out of sight (forever) after it runs away with your property.

Now you see why I said the OP abused the words "thief" and "steal'?

Again, I have no idea whether the OP was entirely honest (a question raised multiple times throughout this threat). This point is not important. I just do not like his name-calling on Amazon as if he fell prey to some kind of evil scheme.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by chaichaoyi

Yes, that's the right direction.

On legal rights: it is in the TOS, you give the rights to them when you eagerly click YES and beg to join Amazon seller community. And trust me, legally, it is waterproof, you can't challenge that clause in court.

On intention: Amazon contacts you and offers a recourse for conditional return. A thief stays out of sight (forever) after it runs away with your property.

Now you see why I said the OP abused the words "thief" and "steal'?

Again, I have no idea whether the OP was entirely honest (a question raised multiple times throughout this threat). This point is not important. I just do not like his name-calling on Amazon as if he fell prey to some kind of evil scheme.

Only one Federal Court (ninth circuit) found the contract wasn't an unconscionable contract as applied to the terms of the case. It wasn't even a published opinion so it isn't binding on another court of panel with different facts. There's arguments to be made that it is, and I'm sure the punitive class that is pending against them is still dealing with those arguments.

Amazon has offered him no recourse here. They accused, they took, they ignore. Once again, you're being pedantic.

You're defending Amazon like they are your own. Amazon has crushed big and small for years, they're trash to their own warehouse employees...but sure, whine about someone saying they stole thousands off of them after FALSELY accusing them of theft because of the words he used. Amazon is perfection, we're just mere mortals ungrateful for their many blessings of book store closures, employee mistreatment, failing to deliver prime within 2 days. Let them bestow their wisdom upon thee for the infallible corporate overlord that they are.

[Pizza1234]

Johnwick1,

What is your situation?

I spoke to two lawyers about arbitration, including one who specializes in Amazon disputes. They said it probably isn't worth it unless the balance they stole is much higher then $8k.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Pizza1234

Johnwick1,

What is your situation?

I spoke to two lawyers about arbitration, including one who specializes in Amazon disputes. They said it probably isn't worth it unless the balance they stole is much higher then $8k.

Have you thought about just doing it on your own? If you're in CA you can even request waiver of the AA Firm fees to start the dispute. It isn't ideal, but hey it's worth a shot if you don't want to pay legal fees.