selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ on ebay - illegal under all circumstances

[anotherebayhater]

usually when real stuff gets veroed its from a competitor reporting it as a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ they get so many they just take it down without investigation.

[tcho]

Originally Posted by anotherebayhater

usually when real stuff gets veroed its from a competitor reporting it as a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ they get so many they just take it down without investigation.

Just to clarify on this: The RIGHTS OWNER has to contact eBay directly for VeRo to take it down. It can't just be another seller who's selling the same thing. So if Tiffany or Nike or whoever contacts us to remove 250 auctions, we'll remove them assuming those auctions are all selling Tiffany or Nike products. VeRo doesn't care if it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not, it'll remove any listing which a rights owner asks to be removed.

Infringement however is what deals with ⊗⊗⊗⊗ products, and no one has to contact them, although they can. So another seller selling the same thing as you can email Inf. and give them some auction numbers. The Inf guys will review the listings and if they determine it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ (regardless what the guy emailing in says), they'll remove it/warn/suspend. Inf have their own guidelines/experts to determine whether an auction is selling a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ item or not, and it doesn't matter what other people say.

[Whateverittakes]

The RIGHTS OWNER has to contact eBay directly for VeRo to take it down. It can't just be another seller who's selling the same thing. So if Tiffany or Nike or whoever contacts us to remove 250 auctions, we'll remove them assuming those auctions are all selling Tiffany or Nike products. VeRo doesn't care if it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not, it'll remove any listing which a rights owner asks to be removed.


If this is the case and the right's owner can do that, why don't they just do all of them, all the time, day and night untill there are no more brand names listed. If your criteria for VeRO is to shut down apon request, what stops them from requested that they all be shut down?

[tcho]

Originally Posted by Whateverittakes

If this is the case and the right's owner can do that, why don't they just do all of them, all the time, day and night untill there are no more brand names listed. If your criteria for VeRO is to shut down apon request, what stops them from requested that they all be shut down?

You'd have to ask the rights owners They have to provide VeRo with a list of auctions they wish to be removed. I guess they don't have the resources to dedicate to that kind of operation day/night week after week? Just a guess.

[anotherebayhater]

thats a good story but eather ebay or vero dont know what they are doing because a ton of real stuff gets removed all the time. its because people write to the rights owner and they just assume its a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and request it be removed. im sure if its even suspected it gets removed because the rights owner dosent want to take a chance a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ will be sold because they didnt have a reported item removed. they dont investigate they simply remove. vero or ebay or the man in the moon.

[tcho]

Originally Posted by anotherebayhater

thats a good story but eather ebay or vero dont know what they are doing because a ton of real stuff gets removed all the time. its because people write to the rights owner and they just assume its a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and request it be removed. im sure if its even suspected it gets removed because the rights owner dosent want to take a chance a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ will be sold because they didnt have a reported item removed. they dont investigate they simply remove. vero or ebay or the man in the moon.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying in my earlier post.

VeRo will remove *any* listing which a rights owner complains about (as long as that listing is owned by the rights owner. So if Nike asks for a listing to be removed, and that listing is for a pair of Nike shoes, eBay HAS to, by law, remove it.

_It doesn't matter if it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not_ I want to emphasize that. It could be a real pair of Nike's, it could be a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, but if it's carrying the Nike brand and Nike wants it removed, VeRo will take it down.

The only thing VeRo checks for is that the listing that's being requested to be removed IS actually owned by the rights owner, ie Nike can't ask for a pair of Adidas shoes to be removed.

Authenticity doesn't matter.

[Whateverittakes]

If the right's owner doesn't care if it's authentic and Ebay doesn't care if it's authentic, they just automatically shut down an auction apon request, the only victim is the seller, if the seller is selling authentic pair of Nikes. You say that by law, Ebay has to remove the listing. Why is that is there is a possibility that the item is authentic? Doesn't the seller have the right to sell a pair of authentic Nikes? What law is this that says, if Nike says no, ebay caves and removes the listing? I don't want to say, "This sh!t ain't fair, because a lot of things in life aren't fair, but that seems....communistic, for lack of a better word.

[ebayisanecessaryevil]

Originally Posted by tcho

Just to clarify on this: The RIGHTS OWNER has to contact eBay directly for VeRo to take it down. .

Regarding the Vero program, what steps does ebay take to verify the identity of potential Vero members and moreover, the validity of their claims of "ownership?"

[JackNoMore]

Moreover, how conservative are the rules regarding application for being a "rights owner"? If they involve tons of paperwork, fees, licenses and verification...that's one thing. But anyone can say they represent "so and so incorporated" under a separate user name for the express purpose of cutting down competitors so they will own a monopoly.

[ebayisanecessaryevil]

Originally Posted by yoko07

lmao ebaykilla, you sound like you're experienced . And I don't care, if you don't want to help him don't answer. But don't disrespect.

PRECISELY- Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Especially on the innernet

[ebayisanecessaryevil]

Originally Posted by Jack

Moreover, how conservative are the rules regarding application for being a "rights owner"? If they involve tons of paperwork, fees, licenses and verification...that's one thing. But anyone can say they represent "so and so incorporated" under a separate user name for the express purpose of cutting down competitors so they will own a monopoly.

I know this happens. When you get veroed and it's a freaking web-based email account as the contact info you know you and ebay are being duped! I had first hand experience with this about 5 years ago. All you get is an EMAIL ADDRESS- No real-world contact info for you accuser whatsoever!!!

Maybe they are a little more careful about who let allow into the vero program, now? "Maybe."

But take a look at the list of Vero members and you can TELL some of them are ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Or, just self-appointed experts in a field that ebay accepts at face value and who ARE NOT CORPORATE REPRESENTATIVES, OR RETAINED BY THE TRADEMARK OWNERS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DEFENDING THE TRADEMARK WHATSOEVER!!

Especially the Beanie baby people from a long time ago. So-called "experts" were just glorified power sellers knocking down "unauthorized auctions" ahem- COMPETITION!!

TELL ME- HOW ETHICAL IS IT TO HAVE "AUTHENTICATORS"/VERO MEMBERS WHO ALSO SELL ON EBAY???? JUST A TAD BIT OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST???? SO MUCH FOR A FREE & FAIR MARKETPLACE!!!

Sorry for shouting THIS is one of MANY contradictions that gets under my skin about ebay. SHOW ME that a vero member IS EMPLOYED by XYZ brands OR they are actually ATTORNEYS for XYZ brands. Ebay can't because they don't even know.

[egyptman90]

if your going to try to avoid this vero junk you have to be slick with the auction discrition and the way you take the pics...dont mention the authenticity just say its brand new, and have a satifaction guranteed...if there not satified they can return...works good and never had complaints...unless your dealing with major ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff like gucci and coach...its very hard to move thoose on ebay without getting busted or auctions removed

[tvaughan08]

I really think Nike and all other brand names have a certain amount of listings they have to remove in a week or 2 weeks or month or whatever...I don't think it has nothing at all to do with copywrite infringment or anything. Whoever has that job on ebay VERO program more then likely has a certain quote to meet within a certain time frame for the company. That's why they have the job, also lets just say everyone on ebay sold authentic goods and could verify they were authentic before posting then there would be know reason for VERO. But I bet they still would pull listings...what I found out is this, on each account u have a certain time frame with selling knockoffs before u get VEROD but it will happen im 99.9% positive.

[tcho]

Originally Posted by Jack

Moreover, how conservative are the rules regarding application for being a "rights owner"? If they involve tons of paperwork, fees, licenses and verification...that's one thing. But anyone can say they represent "so and so incorporated" under a separate user name for the express purpose of cutting down competitors so they will own a monopoly.

Jack, it does involve paperwork and verification. No fees though I believe.

How eBay Protects Intellectual Property (VeRO) more information about the VeRo program.

and eBay Help : Community Standards : Policies and conduct : eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) About Me Pages About Me pages of VeRo members.

Again, eBay doesn't care about authenticity when contacted by a VeRo member. Nor do they care how many/few listings are removed. There is no stupid quota. If a VeRo members wants listings removed which infringe on their trademark, then they're getting removed. Real or ⊗⊗⊗⊗.

[ebay-sucks]

Ok, right up my alley.

Rules do not apply for everyone the same on ebay.

Lady sells 1500 ⊗⊗⊗⊗. kockoffs, repos, junk on ebay PER MONTH and calls them real, old, one of a kind, rare, makes up stories of how she found this item none of us could match and Ebay knows about it, knows about her and NEVER been kicked off ebay in 10 years.

Ex: She tells the buyers it was found in an attic in an old house that has not been lived in for 50 years, rare, priceless and gets 800.00 for it, then sells another one a week later for 800.00 again.

Now, I am totaly blown away by something.

I bought an item at a local thrift store, put in my ad I dont think it was authentic, knew it couldnt be and listed it as-is, all sales final, your the buyer dont bid if you think it is old, because I dont think it is.
What happen, it sold for stupid money, the buyer got the item and had the balls to email me and tell me it was REAL and he just ripped me off bigtime.

He turned around re listed it, got nothing for it and then emailed me back to tell me I sold him a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ piece of crap.

Buyers have a responsibility, even more then sellers, you are the experts if your buying something, why the hell bid if you dont know what it is?

Has anyon ever had a buyer email you and tell you I want to pay you more money for this great item, I dont think so.

Buyers are out to RIP YOU OFF if they can. They will bid it to hell and back and then get it and find its not what they thought and expect you to return the money.

Believe me, I had more rip off buyers thinking they was going to pull one over on me then you would ever believe.

I never buy a damn thing unless I know for certain what it is, ask questions in detail and hook the seller to tell me more before I bid on anything. I know the item the seller may not, it is my job to ask.

All sales on ebay should be 100% as is like any other auction.

I have caught buyers of my items buy it, relist it, then tell me they are not happy with it and want a return because I didnt call it what it was. Paypal and Ebay will take the buyers side every time.
He relisted this item and it didnt sell and expected me to pay him.
Hell NO dude, eat it ! I am not your local investment bank.

All sales are final.... auctions are ALL as-is everywhere but on freak bay and buyers need to stop ripping off good sellers.

⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not, if you bid you bought it. If you intentions was to rip the sellers off then why cant sellers intentions be the same.

Sell it............ if they dont like it do damn bad... I have had enough of the buyers getting and item and returning something different then I sent them.

[DogFacedBoy]

Saw a listing for an obviously ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watch. The guy said he drove a bus in Brooklynn and it was left on the bus. How many people riding a bus wear a $7500 watch? If he was a bus driver doesn't he have a responsibility to turn in lost property?
Same watch, same story, same picture was listed a week later after feedback was left for the first one...obviously ⊗⊗⊗⊗!

[anotherebayhater]

Originally Posted by tcho

Just to clarify on this: The RIGHTS OWNER has to contact eBay directly for VeRo to take it down. It can't just be another seller who's selling the same thing. So if Tiffany or Nike or whoever contacts us to remove 250 auctions, we'll remove them assuming those auctions are all selling Tiffany or Nike products. VeRo doesn't care if it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not, it'll remove any listing which a rights owner asks to be removed.

Infringement however is what deals with ⊗⊗⊗⊗ products, and no one has to contact them, although they can. So another seller selling the same thing as you can email Inf. and give them some auction numbers. The Inf guys will review the listings and if they determine it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ (regardless what the guy emailing in says), they'll remove it/warn/suspend. Inf have their own guidelines/experts to determine whether an auction is selling a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ item or not, and it doesn't matter what other people say.

is that how it works in canada?

[JackNoMore]

This actually does sound pretty close to what I've noticed and heard in my past experience, and I don't think it's just Canada.

[tvaughan08]

Originally Posted by tcho

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying in my earlier post.

VeRo will remove *any* listing which a rights owner complains about (as long as that listing is owned by the rights owner. So if Nike asks for a listing to be removed, and that listing is for a pair of Nike shoes, eBay HAS to, by law, remove it.

_It doesn't matter if it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not_ I want to emphasize that. It could be a real pair of Nike's, it could be a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, but if it's carrying the Nike brand and Nike wants it removed, VeRo will take it down.

The only thing VeRo checks for is that the listing that's being requested to be removed IS actually owned by the rights owner, ie Nike can't ask for a pair of Adidas shoes to be removed.

Authenticity doesn't matter.

I didn't think u worked at ebay before but now your actually giving info that I kind of thought from the jump...but I also think vero has a certain number of auctions they have to suspend on ebay within in a certain time frame. Kind of like a police officer and giving out tickets, they like to say they don't have to meet a quote for the month. But my uncle is 5.0 and he told me they do...so I think VERO has the same obligation they have to hand out a certain amount of many tickets "suspension" "warning" "removing auction" a week or month or whatever there time frame is. That's why I tell people it does not matter what your selling, if it's a brand name you will be VEROD at some point and time or another.

[Chris Hanson]

Ebay releys on there rats and snitches to turn people in. It's thousands of Ebay snitches out there that report listings.

I think that if Ebay gets enough complaints they will cann the listing/s. and send you the canned vero message.

Now think about this before anyone say Ebay doesnt vero anybody only the rights owner can. Now what message will Ebay send you if they have alot of Ebay users turning your listing in for ⊗⊗⊗⊗ items or copyright infringement so and so??


have you ever had Ebay send you a message stating we had alot of complaints from Ebay users stating your items is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ etc....No, they usualy will send a vero notice or copyright infringe..

[anotherebayhater]

they can prob use the excuse they are removing listings they have deemed suspisous on the copywrite owners behalf

[anotherebayhater]

yes but who can really tell unless its a BAD ⊗⊗⊗⊗ if a thing is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not? competitors can report using differant ids and get listings removed to elliminate the cometition. vero is also ebay and both remove listings due i think because they were reported. sure some are really ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and should be removed but others are removed when they are authentic. I just think so many auctions are added every day that they dont have time to check every one of them so they just remove whats on their list and prob. hardly have time to get those which is why some ⊗⊗⊗⊗ are removed and some stay up.