A Unique VeRO Problem - Any Help Please!!!

[Big A]

Hi Guys,

I'm guessing this may be a unique VeRO problem and any help or suggestion could stop me blowing my brains out in frustration!!

So, very long story short, I invented a product quite a few years ago and as with previous inventions just relied on the UK Unregistered Design Act for protection! Then soon after started making the device and selling on Ebay no problems!

Then my best mate at the time, fancied a bit of the action, had some money burning a hole in his pocket from an inheritance and suggested having some moulds (I'd been making it by hand until then) made in China and increasing the profit margin.

So, 12 months later, I wont get into the details but we fell out big time and I mean big time, also not helped by his current partner who's got involved. Now what's happened is he's gone ahead and bought these moulds I designed, opened an Ebay business account and started selling the product under a different brand name.

So, to be fair and because I naively hoped that at some point we can mend our differences (also because his marketing is rubbish and he's only selling one a week), I turned a blind eye to it and so there have been two identical products selling on Ebay for the last year.

However, unfortunately and I believe this is mainly coming from his partner, I have been attacked on an almost daily basis, firstly with his/hers friends and family buying my version of the product and leaving outragious Feedback, which I can usually get removed. But now he/her has pulled an absolute stroke and registered the design without my knowledge providing him with a registration number from which he is totally destroying me with VeRO take downs, 7 in the last month, I'm actually amazed that I haven't been suspended yet!

So, my first move was to contact the UK Patent Office, no problem they said, fill out a form DF19A and send it and £48 back to us and if I can prove that I came up with the original design, which will be easy, his design will be invalidated.

Now, I know a lot of you can probably see now where this is going ...I then contact VeRO, tell them this, expecting a sympathetic reply and I get, sorry the account is now VeRO verified and even with the invalidation of the design it is very likely that if he continues to fire in VeRO complaints some muppet VeRO CS somewhere in the world will just take my listings down, or worse!!

So, now it's war, this is my design, I've been selling it for the last 5 years, I need to resolve this, any ideas, preferably without anyone saying move on, which is not an option!!!

I'm thinking if I can get a US account (I'm based in the UK) I could use the VeRO counter notice, as I know he wont fight his corner, but this is only available to US account holders - any ideas please???

Thanks

[walkingupwards]

Stop selling the item being Veroed and thank your luck you've not been suspended yet. Get in touch with eBay and explain the situation and hope they will remove the Vero strikes on your account (be creative, polite and calm when talking with the Vero department).

If you can afford a lawyer, then hire one and let him take care of the mess. Be sure the lawyer could get things right before you hire/pay him.


There are millions of items you can sell on eBay, point is you should have an eBay account. The world won't end if you can't sell this particular item anymore, just make sure you don't lose you selling "privileges".


Good luck!

[Big A]

Thanks for your replies.

Firstly, walkingupwards, this is all I sell, I've been selling it for the last 10 years, I've invested over £10k tooling into the the product! So as I said and I knew this would be a common reply, walking away is NOT an option!

Secondly, tinsoldier, I'm guessing from what your saying, continue down the route of applying for design invalidation from the UK Patent Office and that the majority of posts on this Forum propose 'ineffective ebay angles?

Thanks,
Big A

[yellowprintdirect]

Yeno tbh am always not surprised at stuff like this... Just like when I saw the founder !! That would of been the first move I wouid of done soon as your mate went solo! Shouid of trademarked your design.. dunno why you or the McDonald’s brothers didn’t think of it first.

[Pandoras_box]

Originally Posted by Big A

Thanks for your replies.

Firstly, walkingupwards, this is all I sell, I've been selling it for the last 10 years, I've invested over £10k tooling into the the product! So as I said and I knew this would be a common reply, walking away is NOT an option!

Secondly, tinsoldier, I'm guessing from what your saying, continue down the route of applying for design invalidation from the UK Patent Office and that the majority of posts on this Forum propose 'ineffective ebay angles?

Thanks,
Big A

Originally Posted by tinsoldier

Legal action, stop messing with ineffective ebay angles.

Do this ASAP ^^

If you think you're going to lose your account anytime soon, you may temporarily stop selling until you get that invalidation document from the authorities here in the UK.
In fact, I'll stop selling until I can successfully use those docs to take down his listings. Better be safe, lose a few quid here and there than be sorry.
Good luck

[Big A]

Originally Posted by Pandoras_box

Do this ASAP ^^

If you think you're going to lose your account anytime soon, you may temporarily stop selling until you get that invalidation document from the authorities here in the UK.
In fact, I'll stop selling until I can successfully use those docs to take down his listings. Better be safe, lose a few quid here and there than be sorry.
Good luck

Hi thanks or your reply, sounds like you know what your talking about!

The weird thing is, I don't feel that I'm going to lose my account soon (famous last words) I have complained and explained the situation to VeRO and got a very nice reply asking me to keep them in the loop, the problem is, as you all know is the different reactions you can get depending on which CS rep answers the request!

So, I've filed the DF19A with the UK Patent Office and paid the fee and I'm 99.9% sure of winning this as the design registration being used for these VeRo takedowns was dated 26-11-2018 and I invented this product in 12-06-2010, so I've a mountain of evidence of previous sales!

The problem is, anything to do with UK Government takes time and to get back to my original question, is it all going to be a waste of time if I still get the odd take down from some muppet VeRO CS who just acts on a complaint without even looking into it!

This is why it is so frustrating for us Brits that we don't have access to the US DMCA route of countering these takedowns as I know for a fact that this guy is just trying to f*ck me over, he knows he isn't going to win any serious IP challenges, he's registered this behind my back purely to fire of ⊗⊗⊗⊗ VeRO claims every 5 seconds to p*ss me off.

That's why I came on here to see if anyone had a way of me listing the product in the US so that I could then use a DMCA counter!?

Cheers,

[Big A]

Originally Posted by Pandoras_box

Do this ASAP ^^

If you think you're going to lose your account anytime soon, you may temporarily stop selling until you get that invalidation document from the authorities here in the UK.
In fact, I'll stop selling until I can successfully use those docs to take down his listings. Better be safe, lose a few quid here and there than be sorry.
Good luck

Hi again!

Look, have I made a schoolboy error here? Absolutely, but to be fair, I've been inventing/making stuff to put on Ebay since 1997 and never had a problem, not even with the Chinese! My products are very niche and small volume, it's just not worth anyone copying my designs and therefore not really worth me spending thousands Patenting stuff, I also have very good protection with Unregistered Design rights in the UK for the first 10 years from conception, which is free!

This is purely a case of someone playing games and knowing full well how Ebay deal with complaints, the lowest common denominator way and without looking into that facts of a case!

And the bizarre fact o this case is that it's all about priority, who was first:

Fact 1. This '⊗⊗⊗⊗' design registration is dated 26-11-2018

Fact 2. VeRO have received a complaint and taken down adverts that first appeared on Ebay 12 months before this date ...exactly the same frigging adverts!!!

Again guys, please don't tell me I should have done this or should have done that ......I've taken my eye off the ball, what can I do now!?

Cheers

[0nelove]

Hell if I had power you have, id just take his down too.
And after every take down I'd text him a smiley face
I prefer fighting fire with fire ��
Also definitely the legal action, he's causing you loss on your design

I know my user name is one love but I now believe most humans are liars and selfish
And I just don't give a fk anymore

[Big A]

Originally Posted by tinsoldier

You told us you invented the item in 2010. Here's an extract from the Unregistered Design Rights:

During the last five years of the term of design right its effect is reduced. During that period, the proprietor must, if requested by a third party, grant a licence, the terms of which will be settled by the UK Intellectual Property Office if not agreed by the parties concerned. This means, effectively, that design right cannot be used to stop copying during this period, but it can be used to generate royalties.

Contrary to what you think, you do not have the leverage you think you have, indeed, it's possible that the VeRO registration may be valid.

Clearly you don't know, so as I suggested, earlier stop looking for ebay counter claim angles and go see your solicitor to determine how you're going to get your royalties.

One thing is for sure, nobody here will do it for you regardless of how much you protest your case.

Thanks tinsoldier, the product was conceived and invented 2010 the current design which has been copied dates 2016.

tinsoldier, it sounds like I'm starting to annoy you Seniors which was never my intention! I am filing the DF19A Invalidation notice on Monday and I will win ......but, it's probably gonna take time and there's a principle here, my reasons for coming on this forum was because there's a lot of you guys advertising USA accounts (unless I'm mistaken), So, although I could just keep my head down until the case is won (3 months or so) I don't want to, I'm pissed, I'm being f*cked over and if I can list the product on an US account and then file a DMCA contra when it's taken down, I'd be a happy man!

But so far, no one has suggested this, it seems to me that the general feeling is that I should keep my head down, despite this forum being full of guys advertising USA accounts!

Cheers

[Big A]

Originally Posted by 0nelove

Hell if I had power you have, id just take his down too.
And after every take down I'd text him a smiley face
I prefer fighting fire with fire ��
Also definitely the legal action, he's causing you loss on your design

I know my user name is one love but I now believe most humans are liars and selfish
And I just don't give a fk anymore

Hi Onelove,

Know how you feel man, I've been a creative type all my life but I also have Aspergers which means I struggle with people, too trusting and with reading and writing, which means I also understanding legal docs, patents etc.!

Products I invent, take months, years of development sometimes and it really gets me pissed when someone just comes along and f*cks you over in 10 minutes, but I guess I need to roll with the punches even though what I actually to do is punch someone!!

Cheers