Is it worthwhile going to small claims court against buyer?

[SMckay]

Non stealth eBay account.

We have a buyer who purchased wallpaper from us back in April this year (2021)

It arrived, they installed the wallpaper then they emailed us saying that there are gaps in the wallpaper where it joins....

We pointed out our eBay advert/description and the images on the eBay listing which has step by step visual instructions too.

Our description basically says to install the wallpaper you have to overlap each section to match the pattern, you then cut away the overlap section.

I told the customer that due to the way you have to install the wallpaper it is physically impossible to be defective wallpaper and the only way you will have gaps is if it's installed incorrectly. Each section overlaps each other so there can't be any gaps unless they haven't overlapped our they have cut away the overlapping section too much. We will not be refunding etc....

They opened an eBay dispute for "item defective" (keep this in mind as it plays a big part later on), obviously they couldn't return the wallpaper back as it's installed INCORRECTLY on their wall, so eBay decided in our favour.


Fastforward 6 months and the buyer has now opened a chargeback with their payment provider (Later found out it was PayPal)

On the chargeback on eBay, we could only upload 1 file so tried our best to get all the evidence in there.... buyers emails, our item description, our pictures with instructions etc.... needless to say the chargeback was decided in their favour and we were forced to reimburse the buyer £170. A note said if possible, the item will be returned. (It has never been returned as obviously impossible to do so)


We made an appeal with eBay under seller protection and on the phone they granted it in our favour, the £14 chargeback fee was automatically reimbursed when on the phone but the £170 for the wallpaper wasn't. We were told that could take 48hrs to go back into our managed payments.


7 weeks later now, we have had numerous calls trying to get out funds back from eBay. Been told must have been a glitch on the system and it's now processed and will be in our account within 48hrs again, to promised call backs to eBay staff hanging up the phone on us as they didn't have a clue how to resolve.

Finally today managed to speak to a higher eBay manager who basically said, we aren't covered under seller protection and the appeal that was granted in our favour was only for the £14 chargeback fee and not the £170.... she apologised and said we'd been told the wrong information numerous times etc.... she saids the original case on eBay was for "item defective" but the chargeback the buyer opened was for "Item not as described" so it's 2 different reasons. If the buyer had said their payment provider it was defective (the same reason they used originally on the eBay case) then it would have been covered under seller protection..... it does say that on eBay too, even though both are pretty much the same?


I've just got off the phone to PayPal who can't speak to us as the payment was done at the buyers end via PayPal and the only part we had in the transaction was via eBay managed payments and therefore they can't help us.

If it wasn't for managed payments and we were still dealing with PayPal directly, I'm 99.9% confident a quick phone at the start of the chargeback and it would have been resolved in our favour, but due to eBay's negligence and the lack of information we could submit to the chargeback via eBay, it's been decided in the buyers favour.


I'm thinking the next step is small claims court but is it even worth it? Would it even be decided in our favour at court? The buyer has not admitted to installing it incorrectly, but there message says there are gaps and our description says you need to overlap the wallpaper to any one with half a brain can see that it's down to the buyer not installing correctly, but just don't know if it's worth it?

Been told by Ebay and PayPal to speak to Action fraud, but not sure what they could do?

Any advise is appreciated and apologies for the wrong read.

[DENDEN76]

Cost of doing business....let it be

[SMckay]

Originally Posted by DENDEN76

Cost of doing business....let it be

Deep down I know that, just a hard pill to swallow.

Wasted a lot of time and energy on trying to get it resolved and thought I've come this far, is it worthwhile taking it the extra step.

Just horrible feeling knowing you've been done over.

Issue our fair share of refunds for other genuine faulty/damaged products etc... so it's never a problem refunding, just this one blatant liar who can't hold their hands up and admit they are at fault and costing us money.

Thanks though.

[james_112233]

Wow ... £170 ? ... i've taken £1000+ losses trading online from deliberate liars. But thank God for ebay and etsy otherwise i'd be queing up at the doll office.

It's the cost of business as pointed out. Forget about it ... lesson learnt. Carry on moving your inventory out of your warehouse and focus on getting more sales. It's not worth the time and effort or stress.

[DENDEN76]

Originally Posted by james_112233

Wow ... £170 ? ... i've taken £1000+ losses trading online from deliberate liars. But thank God for ebay and etsy otherwise i'd be queing up at the doll office.

It's the cost of business as pointed out. Forget about it ... lesson learnt. Carry on moving your inventory out of your warehouse and focus on getting more sales. It's not worth the time and effort or stress.

True OP should be grateful this isn't a reoccurring incident. Some sellers get scammed often

[slokor]

A big waste of time (if it is even found in your favor...).

[solefoodbk]

The cost it would take to bring someone to court for that amount would be counter productive.

[agent006140]

item defective and item not as described?
With Paypal,and Ebay,there is only item not received and item not as described,so item defective would fall under Item not as decribed.
but your buyer filed a chargenack with his cc issuer,neither Paypal nor Ebay can do anything about it,as the cc issuer decides who is right,and most cases,it is its own customer,your buyer.
But here is the problem for those who dont have their own merchant account,you cannot speak or ask your merchant account provider to speak to the buyer cc issuer and point out that he has already installed the wall paper and waited too long to complain,once it is installed,it is his to keep.

[DENDEN76]

One time buyer claimed item defective and uploaded a picture of a bent tool - I believe sabotaged due to buyers remorse (it was a heavy duty tool). I wasnt expecting to win at all and I claimed my terms state free replacement no refund. He initiated a charge back and got a refund. Like 3 months later the cc issuer found in my favor and I got the funds back...I wasnt even requested to send a replacement

[rsot]

Originally Posted by DENDEN76

One time buyer claimed item defective and uploaded a picture of a bent tool - I believe sabotaged due to buyers remorse (it was a heavy duty tool). I wasnt expecting to win at all and I claimed my terms state free replacement no refund. He initiated a charge back and got a refund. Like 3 months later the cc issuer found in my favor and I got the funds back...I wasnt even requested to send a replacement

That's a pretty lucky one-off

[SaiJin]

yah no... at first I thought this is over tens of thousands of dollars.

Cost of doing business unfortunately that you have to get used to. It'll happen time to time

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by DENDEN76

One time buyer claimed item defective and uploaded a picture of a bent tool - I believe sabotaged due to buyers remorse (it was a heavy duty tool). I wasnt expecting to win at all and I claimed my terms state free replacement no refund. He initiated a charge back and got a refund. Like 3 months later the cc issuer found in my favor and I got the funds back...I wasnt even requested to send a replacement

when your buyer won the chargeback,did his cc issuer give him a deadline to return the tool?
If he did not,that could be the reason why you got a refund.
With high ticket items such as your tool,he has to return the item to get a refund,cc issuer is fair

[matanasow25]

Happens often.
Just let him have his way.
Block him report him and move on.

[DENDEN76]

Originally Posted by agent006140

when your buyer won the chargeback,did his cc issuer give him a deadline to return the tool?
If he did not,that could be the reason why you got a refund.
With high ticket items such as your tool,he has to return the item to get a refund,cc issuer is fair

He claimed through PayPal...PayPal disagreed then he claimed through his CC issuer and got an automatic refund. Then PayPal allowed me to provide information they could use to argue my case. Which eventually resulted in me getting the funds back. I didn't get any communication about what to do whatsoever...

[rsot]

Originally Posted by DENDEN76

I didn't get any communication about what to do whatsoever...

Seems a bit more common about the lack of communication these days :(

[vettefever17]

I dunno if the UK system of courts is the same, but even when you win a civil (small claims case) you still have to figure out how to collect. Based on your loss, I would let it ride and write it off on taxes. It sucks to take, but I have had to eat those size losses as well.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by vettefever17

I dunno if the UK system of courts is the same, but even when you win a civil (small claims case) you still have to figure out how to collect.

Same in Canada - the collection part enforcement is hard depending on the nature of the case and amount involved

[muzzie]

Very cheap item to go to the court. Suggest treating this as a cost of doing business.

[agent006140]

I have taken a vendor to small claims court in TX,USA.
The judge will first ask us to gothru mediation,if unresolved,then back to court and he will hear the case.
So 4 of us piled into a windlowless room the size of a closet,the mediator is not a lawyer,I won and he wrote me a check.
But if he does not write me a check or the check bounced,the court is not obliged t o collect for you,you have to hire a sherrif to go to his store and seize enough merchandise,hire an auctioneer to auction off the goods,after his fee and sheriff fee,you get what is left.
in OP case,just write it off as business expense.and if there are too many cases on Ebay,thinkl of not selling on Ebay