eBay return - buyer has changed his mind

[muzzie]

Hello,

A person has purchased an expensive item from me. It was sold without "returns accepted" so buyer should be sure about what he is buying BEFORE buying. However, once the item has been received, the buyer has opened a return request stating "I don't like the item / no longer needed".

I've paid a lot to get it delivered to him, and will need to pay even more to get it returned, and might face possible customs issues - would need to pay taxes as proving it is the same item that I've sent so no taxes needed - it is impossible.

I see an option in the return details, that allows me to deny his request, and the return will be automatically closed. However, I am concerned that he might open another request from the SNAD category, and still get refunded.

What to do?

[Hank]

For change of mind returns then ebay should make the buyer pay for the return postage.
Also, in theory, there should be no customs issues for returns. (but who knows how that one will play out).

But you are right, if you make like awkward for them them you might find yourself on the receiving end of a deliberately damaged item returned at your expense, particularly if you're operating a business via a private seller account.

Simply accept the return and see how it plays out, it goes with the territory of online selling.

The last time I refused a return on an international order ebay refunded them and let them keep it. Lesson leaned on what was a relatively cheap item, it would make me think twice on a dearer item.

[murdered_by_ebay]

just deny return and see how it plays out , the worst case scenario is a paypal dispute

with expensive items I would limit delivery to the EU and USA and even in the EU only to a few countries

[agent006140]

This is a case of BUYER REMORSE ,not INAD(item not as described).
You could ask him to return the item at his own expense.
Ebay gives us x number of days to respond,if you dont respond,it could refund him in full,meaning you dont care to get the item back.
If he does not return in x number of days,Ebay will close the case,if he does return,he has to have tracking shown delivered,then you refund the item not shipping cost/
read ebay guideline on money back guarantee policy MBG

[muzzie]

But is it true that if I deny the request and he opens and wins it via PayPal - eBay will just charge me and lets the buyer keep the item?

[agent006140]

The case is open now,you must respond,else Ebay will come in and close the case without him returning the item

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

just deny return and see how it plays out , the worst case scenario is a paypal dispute

with expensive items I would limit delivery to the EU and USA and even in the EU only to a few countries

Yes, that is my biggest concern. If someone has purchased something online where it is clearly stated that no returns accepted - is there any chance that the PayPal would stand with the seller?

[Hank]

Originally Posted by muzzie

But is it true that if I deny the request and he opens and wins it via PayPal - eBay will just charge me and lets the buyer keep the item?

Correct, whilst you could deny the return we all know how it will play out in reality.

Many of us know the system and how to play it, indeed they may too and be using it to goad you into a mistake. It could be said they target foreign sellers with 'no returns' to play the system. Who knows?

Would I refuse the return on an expensive item, not a chance.

So was it a new item being sold on a private seller account? Could the buyer realistically say they though they were buying from a business?

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by muzzie

Yes, that is my biggest concern. If someone has purchased something online where it is clearly stated that no returns accepted - is there any chance that the PayPal would stand with the seller?

the question is if you are covered by seller protection in this case

they would have to file paypal against ebay not you

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

the question is if you are covered by seller protection in this case

they would have to file paypal against ebay not you

Maybe you have some experience is denying such a case and then getting the PayPal dispute won?

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by Hank

Correct, whilst you could deny the return we all know how it will play out in reality.

Many of us know the system and how to play it, indeed they may too and be using it to goad you into a mistake. It could be said they target foreign sellers with 'no returns' to play the system. Who knows?

Would I refuse the return on an expensive item, not a chance.

So was it a new item being sold on a private seller account? Could the buyer realistically say they though they were buying from a business?

It was a pre-owned used item sold on a "sole proprietor" account.

[murdered_by_ebay]

I got such a dispute in november but for a cheap item , ebay told me I was covered so it was closed without refund , it was files a not received and ebay wrote the bank sided with buyer

but with expensive items I don't know

in general if I were you I would only sell expensive items to: UK , Germany , Austria , France and USA

with USA I would only be using local fulfillment with additional agreement for item inspection in case of return

I personally believe international selling does not work for expensive merch if it is delivered through customs borders and/or overseas

[Hank]

Originally Posted by muzzie

It was a pre-owned used item sold on a "sole proprietor" account.

Can a business refuse a return, even for used items? I know in the UK legally they can't but I'm not sure what the policy is across the EU and non-EU countries.

I know you can apply 'no return' policies but are they enforceable. How would their payment provider view it if they could show you were a business trying to deny them their statutory rights? Just throwing it out there.....

I'm just looking at all possible worse-case scenarios, clearly the final decision on what route to take is yours.

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

I got such a dispute in november but for a cheap item , ebay told me I was covered so it was closed without refund , it was files a not received and ebay wrote the bank sided with buyer

but with expensive items I don't know

in general if I were you I would only sell expensive items to: UK , Germany , Austria , France and USA

with USA I would only be using local fulfillment with additional agreement for item inspection in case of return

I personally believe international selling does not work for expensive merch if it is delivered through customs borders and/or overseas

No way he can fill in INR case as he had it received with a signature with his name on it, and as he had said he didn't like it, it means he really had it in his hands. Item was delivered to US. So hard choice here... eBay also said I am protected against returns if I've selected "no returns accepted", even if the case is opened in PayPal, but in reality the outcome can be very different.

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by Hank

Can a business refuse a return, even for used items? I know in the UK legally they can't but I'm not sure what the policy is across the EU and non-EU countries.

I know you can apply 'no return' policies but are they enforceable. How would their payment provider view it if they could show you were a business trying to deny them their statutory rights? Just throwing it out there.....

I'm just looking at all possible worse-case scenarios, clearly the final decision on what route to take is yours.

eBay works somewhere above this, as they are allowing a sole trader to restrict returns in listing settings. So I wonder, what will work - laws, or ebay rules.

[Hank]

Originally Posted by muzzie

eBay works somewhere above this, as they are allowing a sole trader to restrict returns in listing settings. So I wonder, what will work - laws, or ebay rules.

I'd like to think that my credit card provider would work to the applicable law and not some bogus ebay option. This is assuming it gets that far with your buyer, it's all guesswork until you make a decision.

[murdered_by_ebay]

what I can tell you for sure out of my own experience:

banks always or almost always side with complaints for non received items but if they file as not as described they can easily loose as banks tend not to care much if they know the item arrived

in my opinion it is worth a try since the buyer already admitted the item arrived so not as described is the only way to go for them

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by muzzie

But is it true that if I deny the request and he opens and wins it via PayPal - eBay will just charge me and lets the buyer keep the item?

depends on how he open a case with Paypal,since your tracking shows he has the item,then IF He wins ,he will be asked to return the item to you with tracking.
I dont recall if Paypal will make you pay for return shipping,at one time,Paypal will pick up return shipping up to a certain amount.
But Paypal could refund him in full(item and shipping)
Does not matter how he opens the case with Ebay or Paypal or his credit card issuer,he cannot have his money and the item.
The only time he does not have to return if he claims this is counterfeit,he will be asked to destroy the item,but no one would know if he does?

[agent006140]

dunno about AMZN,but Ebay is the only venue which punishes the seller for INAD by making him pay for return shipping by issuing a return shipping label to the buyer,once he uses it to ship the item back to you,USPS charges eBAY and Ebay charges you the seller.
Thats for domestic buyer,if he is overseas,I dont think Ebay can send him a shipping label,you may have to send him the money instead.
Etsy and Rubylane leaves it to the seller to handle who should pay for return shipping

[SaiJin]

Originally Posted by muzzie

Hello,

A person has purchased an expensive item from me. It was sold without "returns accepted" so buyer should be sure about what he is buying BEFORE buying. However, once the item has been received, the buyer has opened a return request stating "I don't like the item / no longer needed".

I've paid a lot to get it delivered to him, and will need to pay even more to get it returned, and might face possible customs issues - would need to pay taxes as proving it is the same item that I've sent so no taxes needed - it is impossible.

I see an option in the return details, that allows me to deny his request, and the return will be automatically closed. However, I am concerned that he might open another request from the SNAD category, and still get refunded.

What to do?

Man, sorry this happened to you.

as everyone has said eBay usually sides with the buyer regardless and I'm sure you know this.

In the future I'd limit shipping of expensive items within your own country.

about the return, I'm pretty sure that if it's a buyer's remorse the buyer will need to pay for the return themselves.
So to limit the chances of you losing the item, I'd just take it back and have them pay for return shipping.

If you wanna fight it, you could but chances are higher that they win.

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

what I can tell you for sure out of my own experience:

banks always or almost always side with complaints for non received items but if they file as not as described they can easily loose as banks tend not to care much if they know the item arrived

in my opinion it is worth a try since the buyer already admitted the item arrived so not as described is the only way to go for them

some venues will protect the seller(Etsy) if seller can prove he has shipped the item with tracking .it helps if seller uses Etsy to print shipping label.
also irregardless of which venue,taking out insurance helps

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by SaiJin

Man, sorry this happened to you.

as everyone has said eBay usually sides with the buyer regardless and I'm sure you know this.

In the future I'd limit shipping of expensive items within your own country.

about the return, I'm pretty sure that if it's a buyer's remorse the buyer will need to pay for the return themselves.
So to limit the chances of you losing the item, I'd just take it back and have them pay for return shipping.

If you wanna fight it, you could but chances are higher that they win.

Thanks for the input! I've decided to jump into the cold water and rejected the return, and explained the buyer that this item has been sold without the possibility of return.