Power Seller suspended as a BUYER for DSR & feedback left

notahappycamper · #1 05-08-2011

Hi everyone... I am new here.

I have a new one for you. I am an Ebay Power Seller and was just suspended for 7 DAYS as a Buyer and Seller. Well, sort of as a Seller.

This is what Ebay claims I did:

MC184 FB NOTICE: eBay account restriction - Feedback Manipulation
MC014 eBay warning - Feedback manipulation

I have like 30 active listing that Ebay is leaving up as active. I can sell from the active listing but I can not edit the listing, or list new items.

Ebay suspended me for leaving Positive Feedback and some low SDR's for the deserving bad Ebay Sellers. The bad sellers usually know who they are. I know how important the positive Ebay feedback is as well as Ebay's DSR ratings. I rate on the same playing field I get rated on.

I called Ebay that day and the day after suspension and both Ebay customer service reps stated exactly the same things in exactly the same order like robots. Ebay stated I was showing a pattern of leaving leaving positive feedback with some low DSR's. The low DSR's were only left for the deserving bad sellers. Ebay told me to stop or I would be suspended again or kicked off Ebay. I asked both Ebay customer service reps if I were to leave Negative or Neutral feedback to those deserving bad sellers would that correct the problem I was having with Ebay? The reply was no it would be no different and it would still cause me problems. Real Ebay?

In one of the 2 attached original Ebay messages and e-mail replies Ebay even states "There may be times when it is appropriate to leave positive Feedback and low detailed seller ratings." This is the actual proof of Ebay clearly stated I didn't do anything wrong. Ebay doesn't get it.....

Ebay is now "revictimizing" Buyers who left or leave even positive feedback and any low DSR's rating to the bad Sellers regarding of our own personal experiences. If the Buyers got the short end of the stick Ebay is now using that same stick to beat the Buyer and make the Buyer a victim once again. Isn't that what the feedback system and DSR rating system is for? If Ebay doesn't want Ebayer's to leave feedback and DSR's why have them? The feedback system and DSR scoring system is broken, flawed, and is not always running the right person away. Ebay is a total joke now days. As time goes by Ebay gets even worse.

My stats for those wondering:

I have bought and sold over 8,000 items on Ebay since Dec 1999. (If Ebay had a Power Buyer status, I clearly would be Power buyer!)

I tend to Buy much more than I sell on Ebay. I often buy items for my local customers as well as a lot of friends and family.

99.7 % Postive Feedback

DSR's: Number of ratings in the past 12 mounts:
Item as described 5.0 181
Communication 5.0 181
Shipping time 4.9 178
Shipping and handling charges 4.9 176

I only have 2 low 1's or 2's in the Shipping and handling charges from 2 buyers.

You can't make everyone happy just as Ebay doesn't know how to do it themselves.

If we could rate and score Ebay they would have been gone long ago themselves.

Let me know what you think. Has anyone seen this before?

Regards,
NotaHappyCamper

__________________________________________________ __________
Here are the 2 Ebay e-mail and Ebay messages:

MC184 FB NOTICE: eBay account restriction - Feedback Manipulation

Dear XXXXXX,

Your eBay account has been limited from buying or selling for 7 days because of a violation of our Feedback manipulation policy.

This recent account activity doesn't follow our guidelines.

Buyers aren't allowed to deliberately manipulate a seller's detailed seller ratings through a combination of repeat purchases and low detailed seller ratings (DSRs). Demonstrating a pattern of leaving positive Feedback with consistently low detailed seller ratings is also against our Feedback manipulation policy. You can learn more about the policy here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ipulation.html

Any seller fees that are still owed are due immediately. EBay will charge any amounts you haven't already disputed to the billing method currently on file.

After the restriction period has passed, you'll be able to buy and sell again on eBay.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

EBay Trust & Safety team

__________________________________________________ _____________

MC014 eBay warning - Feedback manipulation

Dear XXXXXX,

Your eBay account was recently involved in activity that violated our Feedback manipulation policy.

This recent account activity doesn't follow our guidelines.

Buyers aren't allowed to deliberately manipulate a seller's detailed seller ratings through a combination of repeat purchases and low detailed seller ratings (DSRs). Demonstrating a pattern of leaving positive Feedback with consistently low detailed seller ratings is also against our Feedback manipulation policy. You can learn more about the policy here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ipulation.html

You may have done this because the detailed seller ratings you left are accurate, but you're worried you may receive negative Feedback if you leave neutral or negative Feedback for your seller. We wanted to make sure you know that sellers can't leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. This means you can give honest Feedback without worrying about getting negative or neutral Feedback in return.

Or, you might have done this because you think 1 is the highest (or best) detailed seller rating that you can leave for a seller. However, our detailed seller rating system is based on a 1 to 5-star scale. 5 stars is the highest (or best) rating, and 1 star is the lowest (or worst) rating.

It is important to eBay, the seller, and other buyers that buyers leave appropriate Feedback for sellers. There may be times when it is appropriate to leave positive Feedback and low detailed seller ratings. However, in most cases, the detailed seller ratings and Feedback rating should agree.

We encourage all buyers to leave honest and accurate Feedback after buying an item on eBay. We understand that you may have been unaware of this eBay policy, and we encourage you to take a few minutes to learn more about our policies:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-ov.html

Thank you for your understanding.

Thanks,

eBay

nak · #2 05-08-2011

My opinion if u leave good feedback u should not leave below three stars. One and two stares kill sellers. So i see were ebay is comming from and i kinda am on there side. I have had buyers buy forty items and leave me all good feedback and them leaveme one and twos on dsr and yes this is just wrong. If ue happy with the item leave good feedback and good dsr. If u leave bad dsr its worse then leaving bad feedbackby far.

Road-Kill · #3 05-08-2011

I'm glad to see E-Bay is doing something to monitor inappropriate FB and DSR's. It sounds like you keep buying from the same seller and leave low DSR. Reading through your post you mention "repeat purchases"

It's against E-Bay's policy to buy something with the intent of leaving NFB or low DSR's. The seller would block you as a bidder, but since you are hiding behind the positive FB,they can't block you and E-Bay's doing what the seller would do anyway, if they knew it was you and had the same options.

notahappycamper · #4 05-08-2011

So Nak,

Thanks for the reply.

I personally think you are being a bit defensive since this was a buyer suspension mainly and not a seller suspension as the usual more often things to occur. You didn't answer if you had seen this type of occurrence before.

Are you telling me you claim to only leave high DSR even when you end up dealing with bad sellers? Not sure I believe that statement. Saying your kinda on Ebay's side without knowing the full details is a wrong position to take.

I buy more on Ebay than any one or any business I have ever known period. I am in the automotive repair business and I buy as much off Ebay as I can for my customers, friends, family, and myself. I buy more on Ebay than I buy from my local automotive suppliers and my wholesalers. I spend more on Ebay in a month than most people tend to make in a month. I guess it's time to start taking my business to other sources so I will still be able to buy needed items.

I leave mostly 5's and rarely leave anything below 3's or 4's when the shoe fits. I will never leave 5's for the bad seller that should be banned from Ebay due to their bad business practices and the hoops they make you just through just to get an actual item or due to their fraudulent practices. I am talking about those bad sellers that never answer e-mails, never communicate, no tracking information, items damaged in shipping due to seller's improper packing and or no packing material or just no mention of the defects and or damage that is often hidden, taking more than a week or 2 weeks or 20 plus days to ship while never hearing from them, contact info in Ebay is wrong or no longer valid, etc, etc.....

How about when you send them an e-mail to pad and wrap an automotive tool that has 2glass gauges since you buy so many of these and more arrive damaged or destroyed due to the seller improper packing and or lack of packing materials. Then only to have them arrive improperly packed and destroyed where the seller clearly didn't care how you received them. Those sellers usually don't care. Why should they since they took your money and now they try to state no return or refunds or just ignore you? Because when you buy something you have buyers protection with Paypal, the Credit card company, and even Ebay since they have gotten better and have a policy stating if you received the item damaged you are entitled to get a refund after Ebay forces the refund.

If a seller did any or more than 1 of the above things wrong how would you have scored them? 3's, 4's or how about 5's just to help them out? I don't think so. How about those bad seller's that made you file a dispute to get the proper resolution and never made contact with you?

My last negative feedback and low DSR ratings was left for a HUGE seller that did a bait and switch sending an entirely different item, brand, color, features, etc. Then the only reply was what makes you think it isn't XYZ brand? How about the brand is on the box with the item number, model number, and it does match what was listed. Then look further and see that the seller doesn't even have the item they sent me on their massive Ebay seller page. What would you do here? They refused the return, never replied back, and they listing states has the no refunds statement. That would be fine had they sent what they claimed they were selling. They don't answer the cell phone number linked to the Ebay system. They mostly had good feedback but looking through their feedback you see there are mounting complaints similar in nature. Many large sellers will blow you off since you are only 1 buyer. They know what they sent you and how improperly it was packed.

Again, thanks for your reply. A little off key but you voiced your opinion.

Regards,
NotaHappyCamper

notahappycamper · #5 05-09-2011

Road-Kill,

Thanks for your reply.

Although, you are way off key here.

I have not been buying for any sellers making repeat purchases. If there are sellers that I buy from repeatedly they have all gotten positive feedback and 5's for DSR's with glowing reviews or I would not be buying from them. Usually when I make more than 1 purchase from the same seller it is done at the same time and items are sent together. So that's not it either. Try thinking outside the box, not inside.

I am a former Florida Police Officer and know the meaning of the word intent. That was not it either. I don't play games trying to crash a Seller's DSR's. Although, Ebay still has some bad sellers that often get the feedback and low DSR's they deserve.

I love how so many Sellers claim they did nothing wrong when their feedback and DSR's show other wise. And by that I don't mean like 2 bad apples out of a 100.

Thanks for your input.

ShadyOne · #6 05-09-2011

Ok, from what I read, just phone eBay up an explain it to them.

I have seen this before and the account usually gets reinstated but phoning eBay would let you clear things up.

Well if you received a fa ke or someone intentionally mislead you, stop leaving positive with low DSR and be honest. Leave a negative for scammers. Otherwise you are just being to kind leaving a positive and then being honest with DSR's, this obviously looks suspicious to eBay

GreenBean · #7 05-09-2011

To keep all this kosher, and to have it NOT develop into the Pinocchio tale, mistercamper,
send me a pm with your ebay ID. It's the nature of this type of forum for trolls to visit with stories.

Frankly there is a basis for what you have stated about feedback.
But, equally frankly, I'm not going to wade & read thro' pages of whatever on the off chance you are a troll

.

Simples: show me the ID & we'll chat away.

nak · #8 05-09-2011

im just saying that its people like you who get sellers kicked off ebay by leaving bad dsr and good feedback. and yes im glad ebay is doing something about it. If i knew who left me bad dsr but good feedback i would put them on my bbl also but the matter is you DONT know who does it because it is good feedback you can hide behind.

and if you have a bad seller WHY THE HELL would you leave Good feedback. Thats what Neg feedback is for to let people know they are a bad seller. just does not make any scene to leave good feedback for a bad seller but in your mind you like "well ill just give that guy some low dsr that will show him" it might show him but to the other buyers out there they only see the good feedback. LEAVE NEG feedback if it is a bad seller not pos with low dsr.

Road-Kill · #9 05-09-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by notahappycamper

Road-Kill,

Thanks for your reply.

Although, you are way off key here.

I have not been buying for any sellers making repeat purchases. If there are sellers that I buy from repeatedly they have all gotten positive feedback and 5's for DSR's with glowing reviews or I would not be buying from them. Usually when I make more than 1 purchase from the same seller it is done at the same time and items are sent together. So that's not it either. Try thinking outside the box, not inside.

I am a former Florida Police Officer and know the meaning of the word intent. That was not it either. I don't play games trying to crash a Seller's DSR's. Although, Ebay still has some bad sellers that often get the feedback and low DSR's they deserve.

I love how so many Sellers claim they did nothing wrong when their feedback and DSR's show other wise. And by that I don't mean like 2 bad apples out of a 100.

Thanks for your input.

I'm not sure of the specific's of your issue, so I have to read between the lines. That's about the best one can do with forum post's

I think the bot's saw something that raised a red flag or a seller reported you. E-Bay then looked into the issue and then sent you a mild warning. Maybe the bot's just send out this warning without anyone looking at your account first, that could be the case too. E-Bay won't be clear about that, an it is a important thing to know.

Most of the rules are totally biased in the buyers advantage. So justified or not in your case, you aren't going to get much sympathy from most sellers.

The result of E-Bay issuing warnings like this to buyers, will be that less NFB and low DRS's will be left on sellers accounts. I don't have a problem with that, but like I say I am biased towards the sellers point of view and don't have a problem being up front about it.

newjerseymax · #10 05-09-2011

Do you sell the same or similar product? Could be why you got flagged...

notahappycamper · #11 05-09-2011

Yes, I do sell mainly the same items. I mainly sell new automotive a/c parts. Can you explain your thoughts into that?

newjerseymax · #12 05-10-2011

They may suspect that you are trying to eliminate the competition via low DSR Feedback.

GreenBean · #13 05-10-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by nak

im just saying that its people like you who get sellers kicked off ebay by leaving bad dsr and good feedback. and yes im glad ebay is doing something about it. If i knew who left me bad dsr but good feedback i would put them on my bbl also but the matter is you DONT know who does it because it is good feedback you can hide behind.

and if you have a bad seller WHY THE HELL would you leave Good feedback. Thats what Neg feedback is for to let people know they are a bad seller. just does not make any scene to leave good feedback for a bad seller but in your mind you like "well ill just give that guy some low dsr that will show him" it might show him but to the other buyers out there they only see the good feedback. LEAVE NEG feedback if it is a bad seller not pos with low dsr.

Don't forget much of what you say is an assumption based on info given in the thread. Sometimes we can be incorrect with what has actually happened in the real world.

'camper gave me the ebayID. My gut feeling is that a competitor reported him.
That said, other factors contributed to the situation as well.

His niche is very competitve, cut-throat. Not unreasonable that competitors have more than one account & he got punished because of that.

Without stepping on the 'camper's toes, there's a certain amount of confidence expressed that may well be seen as arrogance. LOL. We know how sensitive ebayers are.

What seems to have happened is the feedback is clearly not suitable to placate ebay. That's exactly what some of the replies have indicated in this thread.

Leave feedback but it must be left in such a way to be effective. Becomes a matter of selecting words & appoitioning those pesky stars or omiting FB altogether.

Road-Kill · #14 05-10-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by newjerseymax

They may suspect that you are trying to eliminate the competition via low DSR Feedback.

That sounds like what the end result would have been if the other sellers weren't watching their accounts closely or the bot's didn't notice this.

Even though E-Bay tells buyers that DRS's ratings are anonymous, they really aren't It's not that hard to figure out if you are a seller and watch your DRS's. If you have a 5.0 one day and the next day you have a 4.9 and only one buyer left FB it's real easy. So the PFB doesn't hide the DSR's unless the seller gets lot's of FB.

If I were selling auto parts and another seller in the same category bought from me, all my internal red flags alerts would be at full mast.

KingRay · #15 05-10-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road-Kill

That sounds like what the end result would have been if the other sellers weren't watching their accounts closely or the bot's didn't notice this.

Even though E-Bay tells buyers that DRS's ratings are anonymous, they really aren't It's not that hard to figure out if you are a seller and watch your DRS's. If you have a 5.0 one day and the next day you have a 4.9 and only one buyer left FB it's real easy. So the PFB doesn't hide the DSR's unless the seller gets lot's of FB.

If I were selling auto parts and another seller in the same category bought from me, all my internal red flags alerts would be at full mast.

Yeah, I agree, I have went through and blocked ALL of my competitors and their buying accounts. You can find them for your competitors if you look hard enough.

notahappycamper · #16 05-11-2011

Looking back, I have bought items from 2 sellers that sell "similar" items of different brand names in the past. Although, that has been a good while ago and BOTH were given ALL positive feedback with 5 star DSR's all the way through.

I know I bought only 1 item from one of the sellers BEFORE I ever started selling "similar" items. Both seller don't sell the same items from A to Z, if you will. I am pretty sure I bought from the 2nd seller BEFORE I started selling these types of items too.

I am underselling BOTH sellers in price and shipping cost across the board though.

Road-Kill · #17 05-11-2011

I'm not sure if you are here looking for support or to learn something. It sounds like you think E-Bay works the same way the courts work and you're preparing for trial or something. That's understandable if you have a law enforcement background and believe in due process.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way online and you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. E-bay usually hangs most of the accused right after the verdict, so it's a bit of a uphill battle to prove ones innocence after that.

Most of the sellers here have gotten lifetime ban's for doing a lot less than you have. A lot of them have lifetime ban's due to a couple of low DRS's.

Right now E-Bay has you on their radar and the other sellers do too, and there is no upside to that. You really should take a crash course on stealth tactics, buy the book, read the post etc., because it sounds like you are going to need some stealth accounts real soon.

Omgoozle · #18 05-18-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road-Kill

Right now E-Bay has you on their radar and the other sellers do too, and there is no upside to that. You really should take a crash course on stealth tactics, buy the book, read the post etc., because it sounds like you are going to need some stealth accounts real soon.

This was incredibly well-said.

That said.... my .02:

Have you been opening SNAD Cases against the offending sellers? It may look suspect if you're leaving positive feedback, NOT opening a case, and leaving low DSR's.

If you want to stay out of eB@y's way, don't rock the boat. Just pretend eB@y is this perfect little universe where nothing ever goes wrong and you'll be okay.

Road-Kill · #19 05-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omgoozle

This was incredibly well-said.

That said.... my .02:

Have you been opening SNAD Cases against the offending sellers? It may look suspect if you're leaving positive feedback, NOT opening a case, and leaving low DSR's.

If you want to stay out of eB@y's way, don't rock the boat. Just pretend eB@y is this perfect little universe where nothing ever goes wrong and you'll be okay.

Thanks, I hope the crash course suggestion was taken.

He was so excited about displaying his awesome accounts stats, the thought never crossed his mind that E-Bay might read his post here and add the red flag of visiting stealth sites to his credentials.