US Election 2016

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by Haidukken

I'd rather have kids be lazy who benefit from support system than have some crazy white fat ******* in government office who benefits from taxpayers money that in financing killing in other countries.

Tho whole thing is so backwards that sometimes it makes me want to cry, honestly. It doesn't affect me directly and I don't know anybody in these situations... But that doesn't mean its not happening all the time, all over the world.
Whats the difference between the little dude you see on TV who has flies in his eyes and hasn't had water for 3 days and the little dude who sits in a closet somewhere in Compton whilst his mom is blowing dudes and smoking crack in front of her?
****ing nothing, they are both equal- They are the future of this planet, but because one of the little dudes lives in USA people suddenly think he should be pulling himself by his bootstraps and go get his American Dream.

So....you're saying MORE welfare is the solution?

[MM78]

I found this meme hilarious and yet insightful...

[phaz0rz]

Nobody has argued free college would bankrupt a (already bankrupt) nation..

The F-35 was a terrible waste of money but it was backed by corporate interests and the politicians (Sanders?) in those corporation's pockets. Just like college lobbyists have secured government-backed funding for colleges, lol.

[Haidukken]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

So....you're saying MORE welfare is the solution?

Controlled walfare, thats all.

It's not always cold hard cash that people need, it's so much more than that. Money hardly ever solves problems(based on personal experience)- It's the whole show a man how to catch the fish story.

Also, whats so bad about guaranteed basic income, just for being a person? Like... How long will we have the mentality that "work" as such is part of life? Soon enough we will have a situation where AI/Robots/Advanced technology/Call it whatever will be able to look after our basic needs: energy, food/water supply and where we live.
What will happen then? I mean, if we don't have to work to keep the machine going for the first time in history surely it'll bring some changes to the way we view life.

OR, do we really think that our mission in life is to work? HEH, majority of the people work because they have to. If you can eliminate the NEED and replace it by interest then people would have more time to come up with cool **** to improve our lives, planet and so on.

At the moment, majority of the people are stuck in a ****bracket of life, chasing some weird dreams that they see other people chase on TV and think its the best life to live.


PS: UK is a perfect example how benefits/welfare should NOT be done. Jesus **** its bad over here. Basic benefits are more than minimum wage, so why even work?

[yankee]

Originally Posted by Haidukken

Also, whats so bad about guaranteed basic income, just for being a person? Like... How long will we have the mentality that "work" as such is part of life? Soon enough we will have a situation where AI/Robots/Advanced technology/Call it whatever will be able to look after our basic needs: energy, food/water supply and where we live.
What will happen then? I mean, if we don't have to work to keep the machine going for the first time in history surely it'll bring some changes to the way we view life.

Everything that is wrong with America!
This is exactly why half our country laughs at yours and thinks it is doing very poorly because in our eyes, it is three dacades ahead of us in the wrong direction.

Americans all in all do not want to be the UK. It is exactly what we DON'T WANT. Americans as a whole DO NOT WANT TO BE SOCIALISTS. Only our career welfare recipients and people benefiting from them do. The exact people you have been bashing.

[JamesNorth101]

The UK is not a socialist country...

We do have an unbalance welfare system though, although its a LOT LOT better than it was 6/7 years ago

I think of myself as conservative and I have a lot of friends that are as well, none of us would want to be rid of the NHS. The continued overall of the welfare system we have in the UK yes, but not the NHS

It used to be in the UK that a family from Romania could move over here, be given a £1m house in London to live in rent free and then £80k a year to live on (although that is an extreme sample it did happen). Thankfully that is in the past now and we are moving in the right direction in which is pays to work

[jeffweico]

I just want to point something out, I REFUSE to get drawn into the liberal vs conservative nonsense, so don't even try...

There is a REASON that some nations have decided to make college free. That reason has nothing to do with "free stuff". And it does not mean that ALL colleges are free, just the public ones.

The fact is, the more educated the people are, the better off the country as a whole is. The more opportunities there are for everyone and the country AS A WHOLE.

These nations do not do it so they can give "free stuff" to people who are lazy or anything like that. If implemented here, not ALL colleges would be free. Harvard, Stanford, Yale, the University of Chicago - the top tier schools would still cost a fortune. So would the private colleges. Only the public ones would be free.

The other thing that is happening in these other countries is that not everyone who gets free college is taking four years of it. Many of these colleges offer programs that provide basic training for jobs that are in demand. The more the country needs plumbers, the more slots there will be in that training program. That way, they can steer students into careers where jobs are actually available and society as a whole benefits. Have a shortage of nurses? Increase the number of slots. Too many nurses? Decrease the number of slots.

This is what I meant about people in the US needing civics classes. I see a lot of people using talking points about "free stuff" and other nonsense with no thought as to what the proposed program would actually accomplish. Mr Sanders and I would not agree on a lot of things, but this is one area where I would support him 100%.

It is about investing in society as a whole, not about welfare, or giving people something for nothing that they do not deserve. Yes, individuals DO benefit from it. But the benefits to the country as a whole are what it is all about.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

It is about investing in society as a whole, not about welfare, or giving people something for nothing that they do not deserve. Yes, individuals DO benefit from it. But the benefits to the country as a whole are what it is all about.

That is very nicely said

[itemauctions]

Nothings gonna change we just have to deal with it

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by yankee

What I find crazy is all the outsiders who complain about the USA but yet line up at the door or literally just walk in. If the place sucks so bad why the heck come here? LOL

and everyone from Europe bashing on the USA are calling the kettle black. If I remember history correctly Europe dragged the USA(and by all means we should have stepped up earlier) into being the worlds police....

But much like Ghost, I am all for the SECURE and STRONG yet libertarian stance. Worry about out own issues and screw the rest of ya haha Just joking....Kinda.

Or the countries that want a free ride on defense. Have the US Navy patrol the seas but never pay for any it.

[GreenBean]

Since the thread topic is the US Election 2016, which candidate is going to implement any of the suggestions?

Not read a comment on that.

op2

[dan_ebay]

Originally Posted by vogeltron

Or the countries that want a free ride on defense. Have the US Navy patrol the seas but never pay for any it.

The irony of 'defense' meaning invading Iraq and Afghan.

No please stop defending us, fairly certain you made it worse lol

[MM78]

Originally Posted by dan_ebay

The irony of 'defense' meaning invading Iraq and Afghan.

No please stop defending us, fairly certain you made it worse lol

LOL, You know....no one from Iraq asked to be saved! but remember, We went in to protect the oil! Funny, 90% of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and yet we didn't invade Saudi Arabia.....must of been a typo in the war papers.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by Haidukken

Also, whats so bad about guaranteed basic income, just for being a person? Like... How long will we have the mentality that "work" as such is part of life? Soon enough we will have a situation where AI/Robots/Advanced technology/Call it whatever will be able to look after our basic needs: energy, food/water supply and where we live.
What will happen then? I mean, if we don't have to work to keep the machine going for the first time in history surely it'll bring some changes to the way we view life.

OR, do we really think that our mission in life is to work? HEH, majority of the people work because they have to. If you can eliminate the NEED and replace it by interest then people would have more time to come up with cool **** to improve our lives, planet and so on.

The problem with what you suggested is that with any new technology, the jobs that get replaced simply create new, different jobs. For example, if in 2 years, all Waiter and Waitress jobs are replaced by robots, guess what? Someone is going to have to program, debug, repair, maintain, polish, and update these robots. This will eliminate some jobs, yes, but these other technical tasks won't take care of themselves. Unless, of course, you're theorizing a self-programming robot that also repairs other robots, in which case, we have a lot bigger problems to worry about than the economy.

As for the election topic, personally, I'd rather discuss the overarching problems of society. This is something there is a lot more middle ground on, and people are far less emotional about their overall world-views than the candidates themselves, generally speaking. I think this line of conversation is more fun and less harmful than the "SANDERS IS A COMMUNIST JEW!" And "TRUMP IS A RACIST OLD EVIL BIGOT!"

But that's just my opinion.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Aside from that, I think we all know deep down that NONE of the candidates would be able to "fix" the problems that exist, regardless of what they may be or how sincere they are in their desire to.

Both of the extreme candidates are hated so much by the establishment and their parties, that even if they managed to win the popular vote, the odds of shenanigans and or and assassination are just ridiculous.

I think the biggest positive to come from this election is opening the eyes of the American people, to see that our "democracy" is a farce.

Though judging from the response of the Edwards Snowden reveal, nothing will come of it.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by itemauctions

Nothings gonna change we just have to deal with it

This is the slow approach to things

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by dan_ebay

The irony of 'defense' meaning invading Iraq and Afghan.

No please stop defending us, fairly certain you made it worse lol

If I remember correctly Tony Blair was all rah rah to go join the fight. Sorry but the politicians in the UK are as corrupt even not even more than States. What the three headed monster of Cameron, Osborne and Carney is going to crash the UK as bad if not worse than Janet Yellen over here.

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by MM78

LOL, You know....no one from Iraq asked to be saved! but remember, We went in to protect the oil! Funny, 90% of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and yet we didn't invade Saudi Arabia.....must of been a typo in the war papers.

Why would we invade Suadi? We have had to kiss their behind ever since Henry Kissinger make a backroom deal to save the USD by creating the Petro Dollar and agreeing to defend the House of Saud. After 1971 when Nixon Closed the Gold window the USD went is crapper. Jimmy Carter had to issue "Carter Bonds" to be paid back in Swiss Francs and West German Deutschmarks. No Petro Dollar no USD as worlds reserve currency.

They don't teach that kind of stuff in the K-12 Government indoctrination camps in America.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by vogeltron

If I remember correctly Tony Blair was all rah rah to go join the fight. Sorry but the politicians in the UK are as corrupt even not even more than States. What the three headed monster of Cameron, Osborne and Carney is going to crash the UK as bad if not worse than Janet Yellen over here.

Tony Blair was a good leader for the UK at the time, but he made a major mistake in leading the UK into war. It a blight on his time as PM

As for corruption in UK politics, I would be interested to hear where you get that we are more corrupt than the US from? What makes something corrupt is half the time a subjective view.

All countries do have a level of corruption without a doubt, but we simply don't have the same sort of lobby and special interest groups as the US, no where else in the world does. Added to that half our laws are decided outside the UK (something that may well change in the coming months) so there simply isn't the same scope for corruption.

I spent a few years living in the US and I really enjoyed it. The US has some really great things, but US politics I found to not be one of them (that is just a subjective view). I found it very interesting how long it would take for a bill to pass, and then when it nearly did some special provision would be added to the bill which would see it end up failing quite often.

I am not really one for US bashing, something that does seem popular these days, I do think that there are a lot of things that the US do that I wish we did in the UK. I do think though that saying that we have the same type/level of corruption in the UK as the US is incorrect though

Both countries do pretty well on the transparency.org table though, so while both countries have got their corruption its a lot lot less of an issue than most of the rest of the world at least!

What the three headed monster of Cameron, Osborne and Carney is going to crash the UK

That seems unlikely. We have decent growth at the moment and they are bringing in some good solid reforms for the welfare system, immigration and taxes. Time will ultimately tell though

[Valhalla]

Originally Posted by yankee

Everything that is wrong with America!

Americans all in all do not want to be the UK. It is exactly what we DON'T WANT. Americans as a whole DO NOT WANT TO BE SOCIALISTS.

Unfortunately this common misconception is now prevalent across the internet as a whole. Socialism is a mode of production in which the means of production are owned by the working classes i.e. those who sell their labour in return for a wage, they are also categorised by being planned economies, these are not market driven. Capitalism is a mode of production in which the means of production are privately owned, these are market driven economies which are mainly categorised by having wage labour, production for profit etc.

Welfare does not equal socialism. Whilst you didn't state this in your post, the misconception of "free stuff" being thrown in a few posts needs to be addressed. Take the NHS for example - it's free at the point of access. These things are still being paid for by taxes.

[Haidukken]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

That seems unlikely. We have decent growth at the moment and they are bringing in some good solid reforms for the welfare system, immigration and taxes. Time will ultimately tell though

This.

They needs to seriously restructure the benefit problem we have going on at the moment, welcome refugees with open arms and perhaps try to tax the 1% that live down South.

Sort that out, open up some factories where refugees can earn something meaningful and get on with it.

[EWHendo]

Bernie has won 7 of the last 8 Democratic Primaries...

Don't call it a comeback!