US Election 2016

GhostOfAmazon · #**507** 06-15-2016

A good read on the subject:

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-...oped-countries

JamesNorth101 · #**508** 06-15-2016

That is actually a very good point GOA

I still do think though if all the guns did get removed you over night you would see a dramatic decrease in the murder rate across the USA.

I think this applies to any country that has very easy access to weapons, not just the USA

That is not to say that its the right thing to do. That is for voters in their own country to decide.

dealagreeproceed · #**509** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Stop assuming you have the only right to discuss your Faith.

I was replying as a non-Muslim and endeavoring to show some respect.

A discussion on Jihad is not what this forum is about.

the problem is your misleading and don't have any clue what your talking about. anyone can say whatever they want. its a free country. you have the right to speak as you like. but I BELIEVE you shouldn't tell people to learn about islam and the J-word by going to a wiki link. that wont teach you anything.

listen you know a lot about stealth and ebay and amazon but very little about islam from the posts I ve seen you make on the subject.

not sure how you were showing respect lol but ok greenie beanie...

dealagreeproceed · #**510** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

If they attack armed military soldiers, that's one thing. But they never do. They always attack "soft" targets. Unarmed civilians. Not military bases or even military personal. Not really a valid analogy.

If they were bombing bases, you'd have a point. But they aren't, and you don't.

I wish I could say our troops only target combatants as well. but surely when your dropping tons of bombs from the sky you don't always hit a "terrorist"....
two wrongs don't make a right no doubt but clearly each side thinks their the "good" guys in this...
and im pretty sure they ve attacked our soldiers plenty of times that's why we had to leave Iraq and Afghanistan and have someone else fight our wars because our country could not stand to see our troops slaughtered over nothing for much longer.

dealagreeproceed · #**511** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

I can tell you're completely unfamiliar with Christianity.

The examples you're talking about are in the Old Testament, and the Bible clearly states that once Jesus died on the cross, the Old Testament is over and no longer valid. Now Christians follow the new Testament. There are no examples of murder or beating women, or any other violence committed by Christians in the New Testament.

hmmmmmmmmm tell that to this guy... looks like you guys got different bibles. there are a hole bunch out there anyways...
Christian Pastor Celebrates Orlando Massacre: Round Up All The Gays And Blow Their Brains Out [VIDEO] - Joe.My.God.

yankee · #**512** 06-15-2016

The problem is not too many guns. The problem is that everyone does not have or use guns.
It is not the 1 person who had a gun in orlando it is the 102 who did not.

The MOST DANGEROUS cities in the USA are gun free zones and well documented by very specific demographics of people.

dealagreeproceed · #**513** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Again, the problem with this argument is that, in all cases, the US military is targeting a threat, an armed combatant of some sort (if you believe what they tell you, anyways...but let's save that for another day). The point is, it's incomparable. Civilian causalities in a military strike and targeting ONLY civilians...not even close to comparable. This guy shot up the club because he hates gays and he hates Americans. There's no question about his motives in this case.

if you believe the u.s. only targets "threats" and "armed combatants" you need to wake up.
the only people who think he did this because he just hates gays and americans, are people who watch cnn all day. let me be clear no one just hates us for being americans and having the freedoms we do, that makes no sense...
his motive is clear just watch this...

YouTube

yankee · #**514** 06-15-2016

Legal Gun Owners have over 200 million guns and 12 trillian rounds of ammo. If guns and gun owners were a problem in America, you would know about it.

dealagreeproceed · #**515** 06-15-2016

also GOA... a gay soldier actually was killed by this guy as well. so does that justify it now using your logic...

JamesNorth101 · #**516** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee

The problem is not too many guns. The problem is that everyone does not have or use guns.
It is not the 1 person who had a gun in orlando it is the 102 who did not.

Logic like this sometimes does make me face palm (no offence Yankee!)

Just shows the vast cultural differences in some areas between 2 otherwise very similar countries

dealagreeproceed · #**517** 06-15-2016

I notice that theres two sides yelling very loud after this massacre.

one side says ban all "big" guns and have stricter laws.

other side says ban all muslims and have stricter laws against them and tracking on them.

each side is missing the point.

1. even if you ban guns they will be available on the black market like they already are. yes banning some guns would make it much harder to obtain them but not impossible.
2.impossible to monitor all muslims and even more impossible to know whats really going on in someones mind to know if they will do something like this.

so the question we must ask first is what do we care about stopping more. mass shootings in general OR mass shootings done by supposed muslims.

if you want to stop mass shootings in general usually committed by white Christian males then most likely gun bans could help but not stop it completely.

if you want to stop mass shootings by muslims which is just a small dot in the mass shootings that happen in the u.s. then the solution is clear as day. STOP KILLING THEIR PEOPLE whether it be with drone strikes or covertly by arming others...

the problem is the powers that be will not stop with their wars of aggression. instead they ll have us believe so n so did this STRICTLY because of their radical religious convictions. NO... its when you mix political motivation AND religious inspiration when things like this massacre happen. if you take away the political motivation then you wont see these things happen much IF ever. guarantee it...

yankee · #**518** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

I notice that theres two sides yelling very loud after this massacre.

one side says ban all "big" guns and have stricter laws.

other side says ban all muslims and have stricter laws against them and tracking on them.

each side is missing the point.

1. even if you ban guns they will be available on the black market like they already are. yes banning some guns would make it much harder to obtain them but not impossible.
2.impossible to monitor all muslims and even more impossible to know whats really going on in someones mind to know if they will do something like this.

so the question we must ask first is what do we care about stopping more. mass shootings in general OR mass shootings done by supposed muslims.

if you want to stop mass shootings in general usually committed by white Christian males then most likely gun bans could help but not stop it completely.

if you want to stop mass shootings by muslims which is just a small dot in the mass shootings that happen in the u.s. then the solution is clear as day. STOP KILLING THEIR PEOPLE whether it be with drone strikes or covertly by arming others...

the problem is the powers that be will not stop with their wars of aggression. instead they ll have us believe so n so did this STRICTLY because of their radical religious convictions. NO... its when you mix political motivation AND religious inspiration when things like this massacre happen. if you take away the political motivation then you wont see these things happen much IF ever. guarantee it...

MOST shootings in the USA are black on black. Nearly all mass shootings in modern history are by Radicals. This is just facts. Simple math.

dealagreeproceed · #**519** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee

MOST shootings in the USA are black on black. Nearly all mass shootings in modern history are by Radicals. This is just facts. Simple math.

I didn't say shootings... yes ofcourse no one cares about shooting deaths if its black on black, sadly...... I said "mass" shootings... nearly all mass shootings are done by radicals??? lol where did you get that info from. I can easily prove you wrong. that's far from being a fact. unless you mean radical Christians then yes...

yankee · #**520** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

I didn't say shootings... yes ofcourse no one cares about shooting deaths if its black on black, sadly...... I said "mass" shootings... nearly all mass shootings are done by radicals??? lol where did you get that info from. I can easily prove you wrong. that's far from being a fact. unless you mean radical Christians then yes...

Then prove me wrong. Lets look at the past 15 years.....and then lets look at the past 8 years. You will see my point when I stated recent history.

and yes, people like James should realize that MOST gun violence in the USA is black on black followed by a variety of gang violence and mostly in Gun Free Zones. That is is not random criminals and average joes killing people just because they have a gun at home.

JamesNorth101 · #**521** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee

and yes, people like James should realize that MOST gun violence in the USA is black on black

I did already know that...

I don't really see what that has to do with the hypothetical question I had put forward though

yankee · #**522** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

I did already know that...

I don't really see what that has to do with the hypothetical question I had put forward though

Seeing as I have not read anything posted in this thread for the past several days. I have no idea what your hypothetical question was....

dealagreeproceed · #**523** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankee

Then prove me wrong. Lets look at the past 15 years.....and then lets look at the past 8 years. You will see my point when I stated recent history.

and yes, people like James should realize that MOST gun violence in the USA is black on black followed by a variety of gang violence and mostly in Gun Free Zones. That is is not random criminals and average joes killing people just because they have a gun at home.

ok I can count the mass shootings in past 8 yrs done by muslims on two hands... your so wrong... roughly 55 Americans have been killed by terrorism in the last decade, while 280,024 Americans were killed by guns. this is up to mid 2015...
there were 372 mass shootings(atleast 4 or more people killed) in 2015... please tell me how many of those were done by muslims??? I rest my case.

GhostOfAmazon · #**524** 06-15-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

ok I can count the mass shootings in past 8 yrs done by muslims on two hands... your so wrong... roughly 55 Americans have been killed by terrorism in the last decade, while 280,024 Americans were killed by guns. this is up to mid 2015...
there were 372 mass shootings(atleast 4 or more people killed) in 2015... please tell me how many of those were done by muslims??? I rest my case.

Yeah, the problem with your numbers is that 61% of gun related deaths are suicide......

I don't think banning guns would change the numbers of suicide by any great degree.

Also most gun crimes are committed by handguns.

And your numbers on the mass shootings are also incorrect.

First # is killed, 2nd injured.

2008.01.01 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
2009.04.12 USA Phoenix, AZ 2 0 A man shoots his brother-in-law and another man to death after finding out that they visited a strip club, in contradiction to Islamic values.
2009.06.01 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.
2009.11.05 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.
2010.04.14 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.
2011.04.30 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.
2011.09.11 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.
2012.01.15 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.
2012.11.12 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.
2013.03.24 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.
2013.04.15 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.
2013.04.19 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
2014.03.06 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.
2014.04.27 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
2014.06.01 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.
2014.06.25 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.
2014.12.18 USA Morganton, NC 1 0 A 74-year-old man is shot several times in the head by a 'radicalized' ISIS supporter.
2015.07.16 USA Chattanooga, TN 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.
2015.12.02 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.
2016.06.13 USA Orlando, FL 49 53 An Islamic extremist massacres forty-nine people at a gay nightclub.

MM78 · #**525** 06-15-2016

People have been committing atrocities in the name of Religion for long-@ss time...but let me ask a question, If an American who is Catholic, Christian, Jehovah Witness, and so forth (Non-Muslim) commits a a crime such as Mass Murder, why is their religion not used to associate that person to the crime committed?

No one say's, "This Radical Catholic" committed Mass Murder.....but if they happen to be Muslim, that is used immediately.

Who commits mass shootings? - CNN.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...gs-in-america/

Any kind of Murder is wrong no matter why it was done or who did it.

dealagreeproceed · #**526** 06-16-2016

GOA I never said anything about banning guns.
my point is not that muslims don't kill people. just like every other religion has people that kill people. my point is out of 372 mass shootings done last yr, how many were done by muslims? also most of those stories you posted weren't mass shootings. ok lets say all your "stories" you posted are true. lets be GENEROUS and say 20 out of 372... that's 6percent........point proven...

dealagreeproceed · #**527** 06-16-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Yeah, the problem with your numbers is that 61% of gun related deaths are suicide......

I don't think banning guns would change the numbers of suicide by any great degree.

Also most gun crimes are committed by handguns.

And your numbers on the mass shootings are also incorrect.

First # is killed, 2nd injured.

2008.01.01 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
2009.04.12 USA Phoenix, AZ 2 0 A man shoots his brother-in-law and another man to death after finding out that they visited a strip club, in contradiction to Islamic values.
2009.06.01 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.
2009.11.05 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.
2010.04.14 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.
2011.04.30 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.
2011.09.11 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.
2012.01.15 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.
2012.11.12 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.
2013.03.24 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.
2013.04.15 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.
2013.04.19 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
2014.03.06 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.
2014.04.27 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
2014.06.01 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.
2014.06.25 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.
2014.12.18 USA Morganton, NC 1 0 A 74-year-old man is shot several times in the head by a 'radicalized' ISIS supporter.
2015.07.16 USA Chattanooga, TN 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.
2015.12.02 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.
2016.06.13 USA Orlando, FL 49 53 An Islamic extremist massacres forty-nine people at a gay nightclub.

so 2008 to 2016... 106 people killed by muslim "terrorists"... thank you as I said ,each murder is bad, but that's like .0001 percent of the murders being done in the us. and only 4 of those attacks were mass shootings and out of those 2 of them took place against our soldiers not civilians... that's in a span of 8 years... that is literally nothing compared to all the other mass shootings that took place during the same time period.

GhostOfAmazon · #**528** 06-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

GOA I never said anything about banning guns.
my point is not that muslims don't kill people. just like every other religion has people that kill people. my point is out of 372 mass shootings done last yr, how many were done by muslims? also most of those stories you posted weren't mass shootings. ok lets say all your "stories" you posted are true. lets be GENEROUS and say 20 out of 372... that's 6percent........point proven...

Muslims account for only ONE PERCENT of the population. If they commit 6% of the shootings, that means they are more violent than the average American.

A new estimate of the U.S. Muslim population | Pew Research Center