How aggravating...

An actual attempt to get a site up. Focus for this thread is mainly toward getting a decent site up cheap and quick that can be scaled later.

Since I have some time on my hands and since I already know how to build a page by manually coding HTML and pasting snippets for Paypal and Google Checkout (which many of you probably don't want to bother doing), I'm trying this with commonly available 'solutions' that are allegedly easy-as-pie.

So, come join me as I conduct my experiment and offer my analysis. Participate if you like with any advice or suggestions. Troubleshooting tips when roadblocks are hit would be welcome too. Let us see what it's really all about.




Have host. Have domain.

The chosen host is Web Hosting, Reseller Hosting, and Dedicated Website Hosting w/ cPanel - HostGator because the price is nice and I have heard and read nothing but good stuff about their support people.

Tried the website builder offered by the host. It sux. If you want to put pictures of your pet poodle online, fine. If you want to do business, don't try this site builder.

Can't find any plain html templates, only php. Have no idea where to find (if it exists) a php wysiwyg. Google brags about all sorts, but when downloaded - those php wywsiwygs are only wysiwyg for htm files. They still show php files as raw.

Forgetting all that, because I've lost my patience... I'll write my own pages in notepad, like I've successfully done in the past. It just takes forever and lots of troubleshooting.

Ok, that is just gonna be too slow. And ugly. And frustrating. And disappointing for ecommerce.

Gonna try a cart, now. First choice is osCommerce, Open Source Online Shop E-Commerce Solutions

So, I use my host control panel and have fantastico install oscommerce cart. Can't admin the cart after the install says it is peachy. Just get a blank page, no matter what. Removed that with fantastico.

Second choice is ecommerce shopping cart software by Zen Cart ecommerce solution

Used fantastico for zencart install. Same thing. Blank admin page. Uninstalled.

Total time elapsed since money paid to HostGator - 2 days.
Total time actually working on this project so far - 29 hours
Total accomplished - have the domain name I had 29 hours ago

Now, I'm ready to shoot something or somebody or both.

Make the world a safer place. Somebody throw me a bone.

Would like a tip for site designing software I can use on my end to ftp the files later. Something that lets me switch between code view and preview view. Not coffeecup and not frontpage. Prefer html. Don't like PHP.

Need a cart that isn't harder to set up than wordpress (gave up on wordpress until I have time to go back to school for it). A cart that already includes Google Checkout support. Not something I have to write my own module for.

I'm old-school. I still prefer DOS 5.0 to anything else. Like HTML 4.0 and hate PHP CGI ASP Perl Java.

I want to build a site that is more that just a "buy my sh*t" page with buy it now buttons, so a cart as my store won't fit the bill.

Suggestions would be more than welcome. Good suggestions will get you a kiss.

Oh, and before I forget:

Prefer things that have manuals. Text, word, pdf... doesn't matter.

Seems like nothing has a manual anymore, just community support. I can't process non-linear data. My brain ain't wired like that. I really really really need something with documentation that can be studied. A reference.

5 hours later, and 3 techs from hostgator assisting, ecommerce cart is installed. Can't change any defaults, so I can sell a million of the sample items (I don't stock them so I guess I'll just find a drop shipper and completely change my line of business). Can't install the Google Checkout module, and the default payments are defaulted off, so everything is free. All the sample products I don't carry. 3 techs and me... can't make it work. We did everything by the book. 5 hours. Nada.

Correction. 4 hours. It just seemed longer, I guess...

[gurusgrafx]

Its hard to get away from php these days. Ever tried cubecart? I haven't used it in over a year but out of all of them I used it was the simplest to populate and run with.

[aspkin]

I usually don't like those free carts because they usually require a lot of extra work to get going, and lots of messing with to make it how you like.

I've used CS-Cart successfully, their manual is very nice and it has all the options you need to setup shop pretty fast.

The only draw back is it cost money.. but it's a very nice cart and worth it.

Go to cs-cart.com and check it out.

It's the main shopping cart I recommend in Webmaster Blueprint.

If you buy Webmaster Blueprint, I'll install a cart of your choosing and get the basics going for you, you must have the cart first. I don't have time to configure a shopping cart but I can get the basics going like SEO and Payment Module. I won't setup any products, design or any of that tedious work, but I can get it started for you and point you in the right direction.

If anyone is interested send me a PM,
Cheers

Further Update:

Having repeatedly installed-uninstalled-installed-uninstalled-installed-uninstalled-installed-uninstalled-installed-uninstalled-installed-uninstalled-installed

It finally went in and I can access the admin page. Using all the options included with the default setup, I can change anything I like.

There is no explanation for why it would not work on any previous occasions. Used fantasitico to install and uninstall over and over. Did not attempt to change any install options. Each attempt to install was exactly the same as previous attempts, except the date and time. I guess I'm just more persistent than the server was stubborn.

But! Can't get the Google Checkout module working. It's not included with oscommerce. You add it on later.

Doesn't even show up within oscommerce at all. Followed every single step to the letter. Checked and rechecked.

Tried the manual install of Google Checkout module using SSH, exactly as Google Checkout procedure dictates. No go. The install.sh always exits in error. Maybe google's fault for making a bad file, maybe oscommerce has a bug reading the data, maybe the server sucks.

I am suspecting that oscommerce 2.2 RC2a is just flaky, which does not explain why zencart has the same problem...

So, now that I've sandboxed this to the point that it will actually do *something* more than nothing, I'm going to go out of the sandbox and start building around a crippled oscommerce to see what develops.

Instead of making a site, which is what I wanted to do... complete with subpages and whatnot... I'm just going to make a money-taker-buy-my-sh*t page.

For those people who've been kicking around the idea of their own domain, I'll post back again with more progress. So far, it's doesn't seem to be worth the effort to try making a real site unless you hire a team to do it for you. Even a simple cart-based dump zone is a pain in the heinie. I should have just HTML'd the thing with an address where to send paper payments.

I'm keeping my tone completely real (minus the bad language I've been throwing around) just so people get a clear impression of what the experience is like. Find a copy of "Wicked Words" online or at your local book store. Start with A and work all the way through Z. Sprinkle those all over my post, and add quite a few similar words I've made up along the way. You'll feel me.

Oh, um, Yeah.

For those of you interested in seeing the progress...

So far, it looks like this sandbox1

I just discovered that the entire procedure for installing the most recent Google Checkout module via the provided install.sh script (from google and from oscommerce) is completely incorrect. They are aware of this and had indicated that they would make corrections about 1 month ago. No updated docs, still. Nada. I'm not liking "free" and "community support".

If you get errors while trying to run install.sh, it won't work but your main install will be fine still. If you run install.sh and do NOT get an error, it will appear that it worked fine but your entire collection of payment modules will be nuked when you go check.

The Windows install.bat probably works the way it is supposed to, but if your server is unix-flavored, no dice.

Previous versions of the module may have installed properly at the time, which would explain why I see other sites with a working Google Checkout. Maybe I should get oscommerce v1.0 and google checkout module v1.0 and then never ever ever upgrade SQUAT.

So, I'll keep plugging forward and studying backward...

Originally Posted by aspkin

I usually don't like those free carts because they usually require a lot of extra work to get going, and lots of messing with to make it how you like.

That's how it is shaping up so far, yes indeed.

I've used CS-Cart successfully, their manual is very nice and it has all the options you need to setup shop pretty fast.

The only draw back is it cost money.. but it's a very nice cart and worth it.

Go to cs-cart.com and check it out.

It's the main shopping cart I recommend in Webmaster Blueprint.

I'll probably give this one a go when it is time to make the "real-deal"

If you buy Webmaster Blueprint, I'll install a cart of your choosing and get the basics going for you, you must have the cart first. I don't have time to configure a shopping cart but I can get the basics going like SEO and Payment Module. I won't setup any products, design or any of that tedious work, but I can get it started for you and point you in the right direction.

If anyone is interested send me a PM,
Cheers

After I finish this project (or give up in shame), I'll be giving the Webmaster Blueprint a go.

[viking23]

Have been using Cubecart for about 6 months now.
I am not technical at all.
Its very easy to setup and the cart is already installed for you.
Go here and type in Cubecart in a search.
The Wholesale Forums
I use a guy on there to host my sites,he is extremly helpful.(Pete is his name).
Cant go wrong with Aspkin either

Latest update:

Still no go for the Google Checkout module. Toasted the entire OS Commerce Admin again. The sandbox is till viewable as guest, though. I don't comprehend the problem. Google group for this plugin has been absolutely no help for others with same problem who have asked long before I showed up there. OS Commerce community has treated everyone before me who had the same problem as though the people were idiots. No help, just insults.

I will note that this appears to be specific to OS Commerce 2.2 RC2a and Google Checkout Module 1.5

Does Cubecart have support for Google Checkout already included? Or is it a separate module that has to be plugged in after the main install?

Originally Posted by viking23

Have been using Cubecart for about 6 months now.
I am not technical at all.
Its very easy to setup and the cart is already installed for you.
Go here and type in Cubecart in a search.
The Wholesale Forums
I use a guy on there to host my sites,he is extremly helpful.(Pete is his name).
Cant go wrong with Aspkin either

[gurusgrafx]

^^^^^^ I think you have to add google checkout. can't remember.
cubecart really is one of the simplest carts out there. I started with it then went into zen cart and joomla with shopping plugin. they are a lot more involved. although I'd rather use joomla for all the non shopping perks now. but yeah try cubecart. I only had two real issues and after I figured out what the cause was it was nothing to run.

CubeCart - Free & Commercial Online Shopping Cart Solutions

[viking23]

You can buy a modification and install it for GC ($20).
Or the pay version has it installed already.
The pay version costs about $130 I think.
Support does kinda sucks with CC though.
But its a decent cart to get up and running for the basics and it looks pretty good.

[gurusgrafx]

Yeah I used the free one.. didn't try the paid version although I'd think you'd have a little more support that way. The only problems I ran into the whole time I ran it where changing the text on the front page. had to open it up because the read/write settings where locked. then one day it stopped allowing me to upload pictures and again I had to go in and switch some read/write settings on the picture folder because it somehow screwed itself up. I want to say I ran one install for a little over a year, another for about 6 months with those being the only issues.

oh and changing the appearance was pretty easy too. first time I did it I just saved all the graphics used them as templates in photoshop and uploaded over top of them. kept the color scheme the same. then a couple weeks later went in and changed everything around.

Good stuff to know. I'll be doing a real-life analysis for inexpensive options as soon as I finish this project. I'll consider the $130 cart as cheap and maybe use that one next time around. I also plan on following the Webmaster Blueprint – Learn How to Build & Market Your Own Business Step By Step! for another analysis.

And as far as I'm concerned, this project almost has a fork in it. Broken modules means default use only. Meaning mostly Paypal. Most of us would like a good ecommerce solution that probably includes excluding Paypal. So that's part of the overall goal.

Confirmed the problem is specific to Google Checkout module 1.5 for OS Commerce.

GCM 1.45 didn't have the problem. People had issues with 1.5 right from the beginning. Problem in the way it was written. Some people were savvy enough to repair the code themselves. I can't get any of them to give up the super-secret-fix.

So, I consider this project abandoned and will not take it up again until the module is properly and officially fixed.

My final verdict: OS Commerce looks very very good as a free cart candidate if you don't need Google Checkout. It is easy to install. It is mostly intuitive to configure. It is a piece of cake to work with. However, since Google has known of the issue with their Checkout module for OS Commerce and has not fixed it... don't bother with this solution as it is NO solution.