Forum

Recieved cease and desist letter
 

I received a cease and desist letter today from a lawyer representing a large corporation due to alleged copyright infringement. We sell @@@@ products from china shirts and hoodies with there brand logo (its a big car company). They are also demanding a cease-and-desist declaration along with a payment amount. We sell these items in our own webshop with '@@@@@' adress on the website. The letter was also sent to our (@@@@) address, and my email. Adress is based in the EU, the lawyer too but another country. I understand that if I don’t respond, this could go to court. But would the court be interested enough to try to find my real address, for example, through the payment provider? What do you think?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

who hosts your website?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

was it a german "abmahnung"? if yes , was it addressed to correct or wrong name?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

It is not the court,it is the Big car company and its lawyer.
Why are you selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

I host my website with a large US web hosting provider that uses Cloudflare as a proxy. Yes, it was a German "Abmahnung", but not in my name. They don’t have my real details. I’m not worried about the company; they won’t find out who I am, but a court probably could. Why do I sell this stuff? Like everyone here—because of $.
I’ve received letters like this at my real address before and, of course, paid because there's really no other choice. I just wonder what they would do if the letter were returned as undeliverable.

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

you should just take down the items but you should not establish any contact with them , just sell as you did before just without the items they complained about

your biggest risk here is not a court but when they see the details are bogus and the letter came back they will likely file a police report (strafanzeige) but not because they want the police to stop your sales but in order to file with the police for file release later (akteneinsicht) and there they would find all necessary details about you , especially the details about who receives payments to which payment systems and bank accounts

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Oef.... one thing for sure is to stop selling these immediately

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

They could find you via your webhost provider.

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

if the data are stored in germany the police will have full access , I know a seller who sold an item on ebay and the buyer filed a police complaint so he was invited to the police and when he came to them they already had copies of his bank statements showing his ebay payments and they even asked him to provide proof he is running an official business as otherwise they would have to forward his details to the tax authority as well

and regarding looking into police files by third parties (akteneinsicht) , it is really easy to do - anyone who can prove they have a justified interest in the case can get those details , they just need to hire a lawyer and they will do it for them for peanuts , it costs like 100-200 euros and if a lawyer is already involved they can do it for free to get the case moving

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Of course, I immediately removed the affected product. A few years ago, I had a similar experience with Amazon, where a lawyer representing Amazon requested my data and the number of products I had sold. My Amazon account was suspended, but I never heard anything further from the lawyer. I don’t believe Amazon actually passed on my data back then, so I doubt that any company in the US would provide a lawyer in the EU with customer data for privacy reasons. I’m less certain about German authorities, but I can't imagine they would make a big deal over a trademark violation, especially since the products were removed. I’ll continue to keep quiet and wait to see if I receive any official communication from an authority.

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Stop selling the product immediately they will get you taken down, if you are selling on the platforms like eBay or Amazon, they will get the accounts shut down, they will prosecute you and if you have a website it will be taken down as well.

It is not worth it, I thought I could beat a large international corporate, it cost me a lot of money, I had to close 2 companies and they got a $17 million award by the courts.

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

can they go after the company in CHina which makes the ⊗⊗⊗⊗ ?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

removing products is best , later they could be sold in a different place. the only real issue here is if the seller has a german establishment as germany is very convenient to press money out of sellers through lawyers and courts

with non german sellers they are more careful as expenses and risks are higher

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

They got me for a patented product that was generic. They got all my information on the marketplace website and everything from the payment processor. I had to settle but it is negotiable. $17 million? What kind of money are you dealing with...

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

No they can't - China manufacturers are handled internally in the country...

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Is the bank account under your name? They normally would just follow the money.

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Amsterdam is a place where many counterfeit items landed for European imports,and the customs will destroy them,I have seen pictures of whole shipments being trashed,whoever import these items suffer the loss ,not sure what kind of penalty they have to put up with as well?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Solid advice about stopping the activity and not contacting them

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

if they want to sell at a different place,better not on internet,you know the saying,you see one cockroach,you know there are more.
sell it at a local flea market

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

You guys in UK and EU sounds like the cops have access to everything?

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Cops have been known to take action on counterfeits at local flea market

Re: Recieved cease and desist letter
 

Update:
Last week, the criminal police suddenly showed up at my door with a search warrant related to the aforementioned brand, which filed a complaint against me for trademark infringement. They probably got my address from Stripe. I had a few test shirts lying around at home, which they confiscated, along with shirts from other brands that will also be informed about the situation. Unfortunately, my PC was on at the time, and they found the shirt templates on it. However, they only took pictures and did not confiscate the PC.

There’s a lot coming my way now. I was aware of the risks before starting my business. Guys, watch your backs—it can all happen so fast.