I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

[phaz0rz]

Good gosh man your nonsense and misdirection really isn't necessary in a thread with so much on the line.

[ray]

Thank for the information, the buyer is based in the US, yes my business partner is now being debited for 62K, the buyer bought some watches from me through eBay in the first place(around January this year) , then he emailed me said he wanted to pay me via PayPal directly so I can pass the eBay fees on to him.

I believe that the buyer has sold most of the items otherwise he would not order more from me right? he said he had documents says that the watches are all ⊗⊗⊗⊗, which I do not believe it, even if he got the documents, it does not mean that the products were actually what I sold to him, but it is not important, my partner just could not afford $62K PayPal debt, it's not fair, we spent most of the money for the buyer's order, the buyer just wanted to screw us by the loophole.

Originally Posted by agent006140

so you are in UK,and your 'partner' is in US,where is the buyer?
Can we assume your so called US partner is the owner of the Paypal account which is now being debited for 62k?
Did all the sales go thru Ebay?
You need to press Paypal to find out what is the reason for chargeback -'other'.In your first post,it seems that your buyer is disputing the authenticity of the watches,so it is an item not as described.
Counterfeit goods ,if he wins,he does not have to return the item,they should be destroyed.
Chargeback can come in within 180 days,which is 6 months,some overseas transactions can be 1 year or more .
Depend on where he is ,if he is in a
civilised country where the banks which issue him the card are familiar with chargebacks .you may stand a chance of fighting the chargeback since it is a large amount and spans months and you said you have vendor invoices and you sent him a sample first.
He is buying your watches for resale,if they are not authentic ,it should not take him that long to find out.
Your problem is Paypal,this chargback is hitting Paypal,as it has the merchant account to accept credit card transactions so it is going to protect itself first,but it also knows you dont have $62k,so it will have to eat the loss if it /you lose the chargeback,so it should work with you to fight it.
You should have apply for a merchant account instead of using Paypal to accept credit card,as your merchant account provider will give you better service,speak with his cc issuer and relay back to you what it said and what your buyer said/
where is this buyer,?and where did you sell these watches,Ebay??or your own website?

[agent006140]

[QUOTE=ray;1012003]This is the message I received from PayPal

One of your buyers opened a case for this transaction. This means the buyer has asked their financial institution to reverse the money for this transaction.

We want to help you, and we are disputing this case with your buyer's financial institution.

Here are the case details:

Buyer's name: xxxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxx
Buyer's transaction ID: xxxx
Your transaction ID: xxxxxx
Transaction date: xxxxx
Transaction amount: $xxxx USD
Disputed amount: $xxx USD

$xxxxUSD has been debited from your PayPal account because of the following reason(s):

Other.

In addition, you have been debited a $20.00 USD chargeback fee. Under certain circumstances, that fee will be credited back to your PayPal account.
---------------------------------------------
to come up to $62k,are there many of such emails from Paypal,if so,then there is $20 fee chargeback penalty fee for each transaction you lose.
how many and time period ?
The person who is nervous now is Paypal !

[ray]

Around 15 emails, the transactions are from Feb. to May this year

My partner is so panic now !


[quote=agent006140;1012036]

Originally Posted by ray

This is the message I received from PayPal

One of your buyers opened a case for this transaction. This means the buyer has asked their financial institution to reverse the money for this transaction.

We want to help you, and we are disputing this case with your buyer's financial institution.

Here are the case details:

Buyer's name: xxxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxx
Buyer's transaction ID: xxxx
Your transaction ID: xxxxxx
Transaction date: xxxxx
Transaction amount: $xxxx USD
Disputed amount: $xxx USD

$xxxxUSD has been debited from your PayPal account because of the following reason(s):

Other.

In addition, you have been debited a $20.00 USD chargeback fee. Under certain circumstances, that fee will be credited back to your PayPal account.
---------------------------------------------
to come up to $62k,are there many of such emails from Paypal,if so,then there is $20 fee chargeback penalty fee for each transaction you lose.
how many and time period ?
The person who is nervous now is Paypal !

[ray]

Thanks for the information, I really wish I could win, I sent over all the blackmail emails received from the buyer, he said he wanted $25K back, I said I agreed but he must return the item, then the very next day he said he changed his mind, he wanted 50K, I said no, then he filed chargeback, then PayPal closed the account and leaves -62K negative

Originally Posted by agent006140

In my opinion, you have a good chance of winning since this was a person who did business with you over an extended period of time. Hopefully PP will be able to see this was a repeat buyer who obviously had confidence in your products.

----------
A chargeback is decided by the buyer cc issuer,not Paypal.
Since Paypal owns the merchant account,Paypal is being hit with 62k loss,the only way to appeal is to go thru VISA.MC arbitration court which is costly.
Hindsight is always 20/20,if this business relationship has spanned months and involve multiple transactions of high dollars,OP should have either apply for a merchant account or ask for wiretransfer/cashier check.
Traditional wholesaler/distributor/manufacturers prefer wiretransfer,due to the size of the transaction and cc fee involved,also there is no way to reverse a wiretransfer.,unless you have an account with them,then it is net 30 days/[/QUOTE]

[agent006140]

where is the buyer?
who and where is your supplier who provides you with the watches?

[agent006140]

you still dont get it?
it is a chargeback,Paypal is on the receiving end,Paypal does not decide,his cc issuer does.
You or your partner who owns this Paypal account should give Paypal a call and learn how Paypal go about dealing with such high $$ dispute.
It is Paypal's merchant account being hit and there is a very good chance if it loses,you and your partner would not reimburse ,so Paypal would have to do its best to fight it.
Do you know where your buyer sell these watches,does he have a website or store?

[james_112233]

Can you get an official document from your supplier to show that these watches are authentic ? This will really help you.

The buyer is using the oldest trick in the book. "Item not as described".

It's good that you have emails showing he was prepared to accept a substantial partial refund which means he was willing to keep the items at a substantial discount. He will no doubt have a pattern of doing this to other sellers and it will be recorded in the form of "partial refunds" on his account history. This will help you.

Provide all the evidence to Paypal.

The 62k must be paid back to Paypal while they work on the case and fight back the chargeback for you.

[agent006140]

so buyer is in US,so he could have used a US bank issued cc,the way to find out is go to the transaction in your payment history and find out how much is the Paypal fee,is it 2.9 or 4.4%,if 4.4% then it is cross border transaction,meaning he is using a foreign cc.
If he is using a US cc,then this is is good news,as US banks have a dept to resolve chargeback cases and will review all your documents submitted.
May I ask what kind of watches did you sell,and is your supplier an established wholesaler? who and where are these watches made?

[ray]

OK I got it, he told me once that he sold to someone who sells the watches on walmart, but not sure if it is the truth, he told me he wanted the money back because his buyer got 70% return rate, I was selling same items on eBay and only got 3.7% return rate

Originally Posted by agent006140

you still dont get it?
it is a chargeback,Paypal is on the receiving end,Paypal does not decide,his cc issuer does.
You or your partner who owns this Paypal account should give Paypal a call and learn how Paypal go about dealing with such high $$ dispute.
It is Paypal's merchant account being hit and there is a very good chance if it loses,you and your partner would not reimburse ,so Paypal would have to do its best to fight it.
Do you know where your buyer sell these watches,does he have a website or store?

[agent006140]

Paypal usually allow time for the Paypal account holder to raise the money,since the chargeback has not been decided yet.
But OP said PAYPAL has closed the Paypal account,which means he cant use Paypal to accepting any payment if he wants to keep selling and accepting payment via Paypal.
Your partner needs to call PAYPAL and speak to someone who is experienced in dealing with chargebacks and make sure they have received all your documents and point out the buyer is a scammer,and Paypal should fight it

[ray]

Thanks, very useful information, It's 2.9%, he asked me to source different branded watches (Movado, Michael Kors, Casio etc. he even asked me to source him branded glasses , bags etc, but I do not know anyone who sells them) anyway I bought these watches from a reliable supplier in Canada, but I do not have all the knowledge to verify the items I did not sell before, what I did is to send him samples and let him verify them before making orders from me, he ordered 500 PCS MK from me around middle of May and he confirmed that he would take them all after I sent the sample to him, he even asked me to send Seiko watches I have in stock after he filed PayPal cases, I have all the emails as a proof

Originally Posted by agent006140

so buyer is in US,so he could have used a US bank issued cc,the way to find out is go to the transaction in your payment history and find out how much is the Paypal fee,is it 2.9 or 4.4%,if 4.4% then it is cross border transaction,meaning he is using a foreign cc.
If he is using a US cc,then this is is good news,as US banks have a dept to resolve chargeback cases and will review all your documents submitted.
May I ask what kind of watches did you sell,and is your supplier an established wholesaler? who and where are these watches made?

[Leader2dark]

Are the watches actually legit? The way you keep saying you sent him samples and he agreed makes me think they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and you and him both knew it.

[james_112233]

Originally Posted by Leader2dark

Are the watches actually legit? The way you keep saying you sent him samples and he agreed makes me think they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and you and him both knew it.

If these are ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then you have no chance of winning the charge back regardless of the buyer knowing they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗ OP.

I would be on the phone to the supplier asking for written / signed proof with a professional letter head stating they are authentic items.

It does sound like you sold phake goods...

[agent006140]

why dont you go to WMT site and find the seller,they do have third party sellers and they screen them carefully

[agent006140]

if his buyer sold them to someone who sells on WMT and get such a high return rate,WMT would have banned him already,also check AMZN,SEARS.

[agent006140]

OP cant be selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ Rolex or name brand Swiss Watches,so what is the brand he is selling?

[agent006140]

Since the buyer used Paypal to buy $62k worth of watches,he must have an established account and Paypal can look into his past activities if he is a scammer,but Paypal would not share the information with OP.
The buyer cc issuer should also be able to look into his past history .
look into his Ebay ID and see what he has been buying.

[Pandoras_box]

You’ve set yourself up for this albeit, unwittingly.
You took your buyer off eBay to PayPal.
You traded $62,000 inside the chargeback window of 180 days with one buyer.
The market for authentic watches would be saturated to the point that you and one buyer wouldn’t be exchanging $62000 in 180 days. This watch appeared to translate to a load of $$ for you and your buyer — a classic signature of knock-offs.
Although you’re telling the story from your perspective, the buyer is emerging to be a victim.
But my biggest sympathy goes to your partner. Imagine waking up to a debt of $62,000 through no fault of your own.

[agent006140]

well,his partner willing to let someone uses his Paypal account,he knows what he is doing,probably get a slice of the profit.

[CapitalSneakerStore]

Big money dude