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  #1  
Old 06-18-2019
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Default I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Long story short, I got a buyer who started doing business with me for over 6 months, he sent money to my PayPal account directly and I shipped items to him, everything went smoothly until a few weeks ago, he said what I sold to him were ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches, which is not true, I bought the items directly from a reliable supplier and every time he order large QTY watches from me, I sent him a sample and ask him to verify before making the orders.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, he filed chargeback with his bank and my PayPal account balance went to -$62,000, PayPal said they would dispute the cases but would let buyer's financial institution decide, they charged me all the money plus $20 extra for each transaction even without requiring the buyer to return the items. I am sure I will lose the cases.

This is a real account with my business partner's real SSN and EIN attached on PayPal, what should I do? I am not going to pay $62,000 to a scammer, he's been selling the items bought from us for 6 months, now he's asking to receive all the money back

What's interested is that he was asking me to send watches in stock to him even after he claimed 'the item was ⊗⊗⊗⊗', he is a scammer but he knows how to abuse the buyer protection policy, now I do not have any money to cover PayPal debt, I am out of the business.

I am not a US citizen so I have no idea how to deal with, any advise will be much appreciated
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Really sorry to hear about this.

If it were me, I would be seeking legal advice first, brief them on the case before you start providing PayPal with documentation etc. and let them guide you on what to do.
If your items are authentic and you have a legitimate paper trail, you have a strong case to find and nothing to hide from.
Good Luck!
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Speaking to a lawyer in the Us is 100% the first step here
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Where are you living at the moment? If the paypal account isn't in your name then there's not a lot you can personally do.

I reckon you/your partner is going to struggle to prevent the account going into the red. Based upon your previous posts on this forum your practices have been questioned before.

I'd be telling your 'business partner' to start preparing for Paypal chasing them for the 62K.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

I live in UK now and I was doing business with my partner who lives in the US

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Originally Posted by tinsoldier View Post
Where are you living at the moment? If the paypal account isn't in your name then there's not a lot you can personally do.

I reckon you/your partner is going to struggle to prevent the account going into the red. Based upon your previous posts on this forum your practices have been questioned before.

I'd be telling your 'business partner' to start preparing for Paypal chasing them for the 62K.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Thank you James, will do, I just wanted to know what would happen

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Speaking to a lawyer in the Us is 100% the first step here
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Thank you for the information, I was just surprised that people can file a chargeback for the money received 6 months ago, never happened before

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Originally Posted by garry9061 View Post
Really sorry to hear about this.

If it were me, I would be seeking legal advice first, brief them on the case before you start providing PayPal with documentation etc. and let them guide you on what to do.
If your items are authentic and you have a legitimate paper trail, you have a strong case to find and nothing to hide from.
Good Luck!
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

What was the reason they gave when starting the chargeback(s)? Unauthorized transaction?

I'm asking because to the best of my knowledge there's no option to start a chargeback for authenticity. If these are "unauthorized" chargebacks, they should be relatively easy to fight by proving you shipped all of the orders to the person who controls the Paypal which sent payments.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray View Post
Thank you for the information, I was just surprised that people can file a chargeback for the money received 6 months ago, never happened before
Rough to hear but you have been given solid advice - time to deal with this step by step
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

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Rough to hear but you have been given solid advice - time to deal with this step by step
Contact a lawyer ≠ good advice.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

The reason according PayPal is 'other' but I believe that the buyer file a case for 'item not as described'

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz View Post
What was the reason they gave when starting the chargeback(s)? Unauthorized transaction?

I'm asking because to the best of my knowledge there's no option to start a chargeback for authenticity. If these are "unauthorized" chargebacks, they should be relatively easy to fight by proving you shipped all of the orders to the person who controls the Paypal which sent payments.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

It it were me I would fight it every step of the way. It wouldn't hurt to contact a lawyer with the amount of $ involved.. but I'd also be doing everything I can on my own to fight the scam.

If he's claiming inauthenticity I would upload copies of every supplier invoice I have to the Paypal case and/or chargeback. If he's claiming unauthorized I would upload copies of Paypal sales records showing his confirmed address + the tracking number for each order. I would also include copies of every message you've sent this buyer.. especially messages towards the end when they started getting scammy.

In my opinion, you have a good chance of winning since this was a person who did business with you over an extended period of time. Hopefully PP will be able to see this was a repeat buyer who obviously had confidence in your products.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray View Post
The reason according PayPal is 'other' but I believe that the buyer file a case for 'item not as described'
And...what are you saying?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

This is the message I received from PayPal

One of your buyers opened a case for this transaction. This means the buyer has asked their financial institution to reverse the money for this transaction.

We want to help you, and we are disputing this case with your buyer's financial institution.

Here are the case details:

Buyer's name: xxxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxx
Buyer's transaction ID: xxxx
Your transaction ID: xxxxxx
Transaction date: xxxxx
Transaction amount: $xxxx USD
Disputed amount: $xxx USD

$xxxxUSD has been debited from your PayPal account because of the following reason(s):

Other.

In addition, you have been debited a $20.00 USD chargeback fee. Under certain circumstances, that fee will be credited back to your PayPal account.

We understand you may not have been expecting this chargeback. If this debit has made your PayPal account balance negative, please log in to your PayPal account and add money to your balance.

If the financial institution decides the case in your favor, we'll notify you when the payment is returned to your PayPal account.

We'll email you if we need any further information from you.

Thank you for your patience during this process. We appreciate your business.

You can find additional information and tips about buying and selling safely on our


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Originally Posted by rsot View Post
And...what are you saying?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

So they aren't even giving you the opportunity to upload any supporting documentation?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

$62,000 is not chump change, and you better believe PayPal will pursue legal action against you to recover this.

Talk to a business attorney asap.
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

I did, but they sent me an automatic message saying they have debited the money from my account within 10 mins right after I uploaded the documents

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz View Post
So they aren't even giving you the opportunity to upload any supporting documentation?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray View Post
I did, but they sent me an automatic message saying they have debited the money from my account within 10 mins right after I uploaded the documents
Unfortunately they pull the money from your account either way just to cover their own butts. Regardless of what happens you will have to live without those funds for at least a few weeks as the chargeback case progresses.

Throw money at a lawyer if you want but in the meantime you should upload anything relevant you can think of. Past conversations, sales records, postage records.. everything.
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  #19  
Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

so you are in UK,and your 'partner' is in US,where is the buyer?
Can we assume your so called US partner is the owner of the Paypal account which is now being debited for 62k?
Did all the sales go thru Ebay?
You need to press Paypal to find out what is the reason for chargeback -'other'.In your first post,it seems that your buyer is disputing the authenticity of the watches,so it is an item not as described.
Counterfeit goods ,if he wins,he does not have to return the item,they should be destroyed.
Chargeback can come in within 180 days,which is 6 months,some overseas transactions can be 1 year or more .
Depend on where he is ,if he is in a
civilised country where the banks which issue him the card are familiar with chargebacks .you may stand a chance of fighting the chargeback since it is a large amount and spans months and you said you have vendor invoices and you sent him a sample first.
He is buying your watches for resale,if they are not authentic ,it should not take him that long to find out.
Your problem is Paypal,this chargback is hitting Paypal,as it has the merchant account to accept credit card transactions so it is going to protect itself first,but it also knows you dont have $62k,so it will have to eat the loss if it /you lose the chargeback,so it should work with you to fight it.
You should have apply for a merchant account instead of using Paypal to accept credit card,as your merchant account provider will give you better service,speak with his cc issuer and relay back to you what it said and what your buyer said/
where is this buyer,?and where did you sell these watches,Ebay??or your own website?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Wonder why now

If he had something good going why ruin it.
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  #21  
Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

Paypal has seller protection for item not received and UA,but not item not as described.
It cannot help you if he wins the case of item not as described,but for UA,there is protection.
If 62k spans months and involve multiple transactions,how did you ship,are they signed for if $750 or more,do you still have the tracking and signature,who is the shipper?
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Old 06-18-2019
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Default Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!

OP said the PAYPAL account is now in the red,he is in UK but the Paypal account belonged to someone in USA and has a debit balance of $62k.
If he loses the chareback,Paypal will go after the guy who owns this Paypal account,not him.
Paypal will pass his documents to the buyer cc provider(bank),but this hold means any incoming payments (if he is still selling ) will be used to offset that deficit.
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