Interesting claim, ebay/paypal, input appreciated!

[premedguy]

He can't take pictures because it's still under investigation at DHL. I filed the claim yesterday, he's got 10 days to post tracking that he's sent it back to me. If DHL keeps it for more than 9 days, he'll lose the claim right away (that would be cool).

And tracking has changed!!! But, still doesn't state delivered.

"We attempted to deliver your item in GERMANY at 7:24 PM on September 29, 2009."

Attempted Delivery Abroad, September 29, 2009, 7:24 pm, GERMANY
Attempted Delivery Abroad, September 23, 2009, 3:17 pm, GERMANY
Out of Foreign Customs, September 21, 2009, 3:15 pm, GERMANY
Into Foreign Customs, September 21, 2009, 3:15 pm, GERMANY
Into Foreign Customs, September 20, 2009, 5:14 pm, GERMANY
Arrived Abroad, September 20, 2009, 5:13 pm, GERMANY
International Dispatch, September 18, 2009, 10:15 am, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)
Arrival
Processed through Sort Facility, September 17, 2009, 5:20 pm, PROVIDENCE, RI 02904
Acceptance, September 17, 2009, 12:58 pm, SMITHFIELD, RI 02917

It's changed from the 23rd to the 29th it's trying to be delivered. WTF?? I dont know about Germany, but around here if you don't collect on the 3rd day it goes back to the sender. They don't give you a week to accept it.

There is something fishy going on around here!!

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by premedguy

I figure if i appeal stating i got a bag of rocks in return, i can mention the original tracking never stated delivered, which would imply he wouldn't have the real thing to send back in the first place.

Think it'll work?

So you are going to misrepresent what has happened about this item to paypal?
Sounds strange idea to me.
Have you removed the bank account as suggested?

You contributed to this problem by shipping an expensive item O/S. Yes I read the sob story about being a poor penniless student but you have to take some responsibilty.
Never ship to an adress other than the address on record. It comes back too too often & bites you in unpleasant places.
Never ship an VALUABLE item without full insurance.
Never ship same item O/S even with full insurance. You are coming up against several factors, language problems & the chance to recover your item.

[premedguy]

yes, but be that as it may, this is my current situation...

[GreenBean]

tbf, you are avoiding answers.
Is the bank account removed?
Did you really make that answer in your reply to paypal?

Might be a surprise but I was young once (I think )

[Lyda]

Lol Premedguy, don't mess with experienece! It sounds at times like you know for sure that return would be nothing but a "rock" and seems like the only scenario you are consdering, no ofence..
Didn't bother to close your bank account as advised by many, yet? Hmm...IMO you have been given some good, honest answers under assumpton you remain "good, honest" seller to the end.... Won't work around here any other way.

[ONE]

Originally Posted by premedguy

well i called paypal yesterday and they suggested i select the option to give him a refund after it's been sent back to me.

I told paypal the tracking stated it hadn't been delivered, and asked "what if" he sends me a bag of rocks- they told me if that does happen, all i'd have to do is appeal and post pictures and they would "trust me".

I got the paypal guy's name and contact info to use as leverage i they end up screwing me in the future lol.

I figure if i appeal stating i got a bag of rocks in return, i can mention the original tracking never stated delivered, which would imply he wouldn't have the real thing to send back in the first place.

Think it'll work?

USPS uses DHL in Germany. I had a customer refuse a package that arrived in germany via usps medium flat rate and it took a month just to get back to me.

Go get your rocks ready is what I suggest.

[premedguy]

No, i haven't done anything with my bank account although i should close the account in case paypal goes after the $300 measly dollars i have in there...

The buyer sent the dispute to claim on the 27th, i responded through paypal on the 28th initiating the refund.

They're giving him until Oct 8th (8 days) to post a tracking number. So far, nothing.

I checked the tracking, it now states:
We attempted to deliver your item in GERMANY at 3:31 PM on September 30, 2009.

It seems like they're still "attempting" to deliver it- doesn't sound like it's being inspected or they wouldn't still be 'attempting' to deliver it... Something fishy is going on. I've never come across this before.

If i receive a package back from him and open it up to find newspaper and rocks, i'll file a police report (since it's $1800 they "can" file one if requested) and take pictures... It's the only choice i had. If i tried to 'dispute' the claim, paypal would've just come to this conclusion anyways, and that would have bought him time. At least now he's pressed for time to return it. And i want it back so i can re-sell it. I need money! The faster i get it back the better i'll be...

But if he's not scamming me and actually returns it back, then awesome. I'll dish out the $300 to fix the part and re-sell it on ebay to US buyers only...

What if, when i get a returned package from him, what if i deny acceptance? Will the tracking state denied? Would paypal consider this non-delivery?

[philly387]

If you deny delivery, you can kiss your money goodbye. Don't do it.

[GreenBean]

Denmark.
Pinocchio.
Not working for me.

'nother thing I notice....posts, then signs off...no dialogue to avoid giving answers

[premedguy]

what are you guys talking about, i'm not avoiding answers. If i hear something beneficial in my case i take it to consideration and respond to it. If not, i have nothing to say...

[Lyda]

Told ya! Don't mess with experts..!

[lowrider]

This has SCAMMER written all over it. I am sure he also knew of the $500 max insurance limit. I have never heard of a shipper/receiver telling the person to open up the package and inspect. Unbelievable!

[premedguy]

UGH. The buyer posted a tracking number on paypal...

Here's what it says:

PayPal has received online tracking information for the return of your
item(s):

Tracking Company: DHL/Deutsche Post International Shipments
Tracking Number: 64.160.973.252.5

You can resolve this case faster by logging in and indicating that you have
received the returned item. This will release the refund to the buyer
automatically. If you do not report the item returned, PayPal will verify
the tracking information and release the refund for you with no penalty.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I tried looking up the tracking, and i can't seem to find any info for it. I typed it in with the periods and without, it just states theres no such number. I've never heard of a tracking number written like that. I even went to the DHL international website, still the tracking doesn't work.

I also checked the tracking for when i sent it to him in the first place, here's what it says:

We attempted to deliver your item in GERMANY at 3:48 PM on October 2, 2009.

It still doesn't say it was delivered! So how can he ship me back the item if he never got it?

This is a scam i know it. He somehow got the original tracking to state it was never delivered yet still get it. He probably sent me back a brick, so hell get his money back and the item.

Yeah, no more mister nice guy. How can i get my money back? He's gonna scam me!? Yeah my morals are gone at this point.

[lowrider]

You contact the Postmaster where you originally dropped off the item. Let them handle it. I would also call a live person at PayPal and give them the DHL tracking # and see what they can do. Otherwise close that bank account tomorrow!

[Burst]

I dont think you can remove bank account details when the account is in negative. I could be wrong. However, I would remove the bank account information if available. Then close the account at the bank. If the ebay/pp is in your real name. I would take the collections hit and have a company remove the negative later down the road.

If its bs info just close the bank account and move on. Lesson learned

[philly387]

Call paypal, your life will be much easier. If original tracking shows it has not been delivered and he has put in a tracking number sending it back to you, he is screwed in my opinion. That pretty much guarantees he is trying to scam you.

[tanduay789]

Everything the German buyer told you about tracking is TRUE.
Simply check on DHL ( german site) and you will see the following.
Your original package with USPS track # EH996761031US is right now being returned to sender with (German )track # 641609732525.
Here is the details from tracking on DHL Germany:

Sendungsnummer 641609732525 (Track #)
Produkt / Service: Auslandssendung (going overseas)
Empfänger: Thomas (Sender)
Status: Die Auslands-Sendung wurde im Einlieferungs-Paketzentrum bearbeitet (outbound overseas)
Status von: 02.10.09 18:21
Nächster Schritt: Transport zur Internationalen Frachtstation.
UPU Code / Matchcode: EH996761031US (original track #)



17.09.09 12:58 Sendung ist im Abgangspaketzentrum eingetroffen Sendung ist im Abgangspaketzentrum eingetroffen
18.09.09 10:15 Sendung ist in Transport ins Zielland aufgenommen Sendung ist in Transport ins Zielland aufgenommen
20.09.09 17:13 Sendung hat das Gateway im Zielland verlassen Sendung hat das Gateway im Zielland verlassen
21.09.09 15:15 Eingang Import Eingang Import
21.09.09 18:44 Einlieferungs-Paketzentrum Die Sendung wurde im Einlieferungs-Paketzentrum bearbeitet.
23.09.09 02:17 Zustell-Paketzentrum Die Sendung wurde im Zustell-Paketzentrum bearbeitet.
23.09.09 15:17 Zustellung Die Sendung wurde dem Zoll übergeben.
29.09.09 20:12 Zustell-Paketzentrum Die Sendung wurde im Zustell-Paketzentrum bearbeitet.
30.09.09 15:31 Zustellung Die Sendung wurde dem Zoll übergeben.
02.10.09 15:41 Zustellbasis Die Sendung wurde in der Zustellbasis bearbeitet.
02.10.09 15:48 Zustellung Der Empfänger hat die Annahme der Sendung verweigert.
02.10.09 18:18 Paketzentrum Die Sendung wurde im Paketzentrum bearbeitet.
02.10.09 18:21 Einlieferungs-Paketzentrum Die Auslands-Sendung wurde im Einlieferungs-Paketzentrum bearbeitet

[tanduay789]

And now you will not even be able to claim that you received back a box of rocks, because item was never delivered / accepted by the buyer.
It was open at customs in front of buyer, buyer saw it was broken, left it there at customs and tried to fix things with you and filed claim with paypal.
Now he just instructed DHL in Germany that he does not accept package and want a Return To Sender.
And believe me, he only need to show the German side of the tracking to anyone at PayPal and they will side with him and refund his money.
My advise: next time , package it better so it arrives in one piece to the next buyer...

[premedguy]

you really think Paypal is going to figure this out? I'll just call them, when you get a rep on the phone it's a lot easier.

The original tracking, when typed into the USPS website states it was attempted to be delivered, but was never completed.

The buyer cannot just take a peak at it at the post office, and say, sorry i dont want it, return it to sender, without paying for it. You can't open a package and say you want to return it, AFTER 2 WEEKS...

[premedguy]

So i think i have figured some things out.

I shipped the item to him in the first place using USPS. When it got to germany, usps handed the item over to DHL, where the new tracking number: 641609732525 was given to the package.

When the buyer added return tracking to paypal, they used the same number for the package i sent (just the DHL name) which is 641609732525.

When i looked up the tracking for: 641609732525 on DHL it states:

Date/Time Status Description
17.09.09 12:58 Posting/Collection at sorting hub Posting/Collection at sorting hub
18.09.09 10:15 Departure from outward Office of Exchange in Country of Origin Departure from outward Office of Exchange in Country of Origin
20.09.09 17:13 Arrival at inward Office of Exchange in the Country of Destination Arrival at inward Office of Exchange in the Country of Destination
21.09.09 15:15 Import entrance Import entrance
21.09.09 18:44 Parcel centre of dispatch The shipment was processed at the outbound hub
23.09.09 02:17 Delivery parcel centre The shipment was processed at the inbound hub
23.09.09 15:17 Delivery The shipment has been handed over for customs clearance.
29.09.09 20:12 Delivery parcel centre The shipment was processed at the inbound hub
30.09.09 15:31 Delivery The shipment has been handed over for customs clearance.
02.10.09 15:41 Local delivery hub Shipment processed at local delivery hub
02.10.09 15:48 Delivery The acceptance was refused by addressee, Shipment returned to sender
02.10.09 18:18 Parcel centre Shipment processed at parcel-hub
02.10.09 18:21 Parcel centre of dispatch Shipment to abroad was processed at the outbound hub
05.10.09 03:40 International Parcel Station Shipment to abroad was processed at the International Parcel Station (IPS)

This tracking starts on Sept 9th, shows when it arrived in Germany and on Oct 2nd, it states that the package was not accepted and that it was returned to sender (me). And it also shows the updates as it's being returned to me.

This is what paypal will see. This tracking does NOT state what address it is being sent back to. The tracking he posted is the same tracking DHL assigned the package when i was sending it to him.

Paypal will only see that it arrived in germany and that he DENIED acceptance. Nowhere in the tracking does it state the item was delivered before he sent it back. Hes filed a SNAD claim which implies he must have taken delivery, seen this mysterious "damage" and sent it back to me on his own penny!! But he hasn't!!

He never even accepted the original delivery. The tracking he posted is just my tracking number in the DHL form. He can't just deny acceptance and get his money back.

Will paypal realize this?

[Lyda]

I just hope that return to "sender" s your return address, not some other place in Germany where he can pick up and you never receive.
I don't know, but I think its best to talk to PayPal and see what they think. It is rather complicated. I hope you receive your item back in the same condition you sent out. If so, just give refund and don't sell any more to Germany without taking all neccessary precautions. Let us know when you receive the package back... They may be using the same number assigned in Germany, so I wuldn't worry too much about that.

[premedguy]

well i called paypal again today.

They said since i "agreed to issue refund when i get it back" that i cannot argue that "they didn't even open the package". Paypal said, since i pulled the trigger my only option now is to file an appeal when i get it, if:

1. the item returns with more damage than what he described it to have
2. i open the box to find nothing there, or something else there.

Or of the tracking never states it gets delivered, or if there is no signature. Since the price is over $250 signature is required even upon return.

I'm going to guess when i get the package back, there will either be nothing in it, some other item in it, or find a microscope with mis-matched parts.

My only option per paypal is to appeal and provide proof (as if they'll even look at it) and pray they look at the appeal.

Does anyone know if my signature will be requested upon return? All he did was tell DHL to "return to sender". I shipped it USPS with signature confirmation, but since it's being returned by DHL, i'm not sure if they'll just leave it at my door or if i'll need to sign for it.

Another concern is that i'm not sure if i put the right address in the "from" field when i sent it to him. If i was a little sloppy and they can't read my address (which is totally possible) it won't get sent to me.

I asked paypal, "what if i deny the package" and they said then i'd lose...

Oh god, there are so many unknowns here!