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Old 01-15-2008
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Exclamation Advice needed on awkward customer and possible paypal dispute!

Hello everyone, I need some advice on something.

At the start of January, I sold a bulk load of vintage/retro toys to someone in the USA. The transaction was for $950. We settled the transaction outside of ebay, i.e. I sent him a paypal invoice and he paid.

I sent the goods via DHL airmail with a tracking number.

2 weeks later, he sends me an email saying that he has discovered that 4 of the toys were damaged. I asked him to describe the damage to me, and he did. Thing is, it’s pretty impossible for the breakages to occur in the places that he is talking about. I've sent hundred of these things over the past year, and I know where it's possible for the breakages to happen. So I’m suspecting he is lying.

He’s asking me about what he must do to make an insurance claim. I told him to check the DHL documents that came with the package, and contact DHL.

Today he replied pretty much implying that it’s my fault and I must replace the toys or issue a refund. He says he’s already contacted paypal “for his own protection”.

I’m really angry and I’m ready to give him a piece of my mind. I’m convinced he’s just out for what he can get. (sometimes you just get that vibe from someone, you know?)

I immediately withdrew all my cash from my paypal account, just incase he opens a dispute.

I just want to know what my position is. If he opens a dispute, what will happen and what might paypal do? If my paypal account is empty, will they take the cash from my bank account (attached to my paypal), if the buyer does a charge back?

I’m considering removing my bank account details from my paypal and maybe closing the account, so that they can’t do anything.

What do people think? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-15-2008
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I don't think PP is allowed to dip into the bank account anymore. I recently had a dispute that ended in the buyers favor but they never refunded since the balance was -0-...It would be a good idea to contact your bank and see if they can either block Paypal from dipping in or explain to them that your afraid they might do it and issue you a new account # (both of which ive done)

Also if you can provide tracking info you have a good shot at winning the claim.
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Old 01-15-2008
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HI- You should ALWAYS try to send them the Paypal invoice for "SERVICES".. that way- the ONLY chargeback can come for NON-receipt...
If you insured it, he must file the claim at his end--at least start it- they will come and inspect the goods.. Have him email you a pic of the broken goods.. Had a couple folks try to claim damage, then when asked for a photo--never heard from then again..
If you in fact did send the paypal invoice for services-- then go into paypal+ YOU make it a CLAIM now..
--this way- it will be under review, over + done with.. soon.
Good Luck !
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Your rules might be different over there, in the USA they got sued for dipping into peoples bank accounts for chargebacks. Still, why take the chance. Call your bank and tell them you think someone is using your bank info and to stop all electronic withdrawals from paypal or ebay. If they can't do it, close down the bank account and open a new one.
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Old 01-16-2008
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Thanks for the help guys.

I contacted him and told him that I will be doing absolutely nothing until he sends me photos of the damage. I was a bit confrontational in my email, but I don’t care. He's pissing me off.

I forgot to mention that this guy is supposedly a “minister”. He even used the dreaded line: “As a minister, I don’t lie”. Which infact makes me doubt him even more, because I am of the belief that the only people who come out and say stuff like that, are usually liars.

Because I withdrew the cash from my paypal, I assume I cannot close the paypal account or contact my bank to change my account details, until the withdrawn cash arrives in my bank right?

The way he is talking, it looks like he is going to take this up with his credit card company, rather than opening a paypal dispute. (something tells me he had this planned all along). I don’t know if paypal treat disputes like this differently, but obviously if his credit card company claims the money back from paypal, then paypal are going to chase me for the money.

As soon as my withdrawn cash arrives into my bank, im shutting down my paypal account and changing my bank details. I’m not taking any risks.
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Old 01-16-2008
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Hi- depends on how old your paypal acct is-- alot of people would actually say that an aged paypal acct is worth alot more than $950...
so- you may want to reconsider just letting it go.
ESPECIALLY--if youve never had any problems with paypal..
AND_ if youve already given up your ss number for that acct- you cannot use it again...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebayhateluv View Post
alot of people would actually say that an aged paypal acct is worth alot more than $950.
wow, really? How come?

This particular account is over 4 years old, and has "308 verified buyers".

Maybe I'll just change my bank account details, so that paypal can’t delve into it. But then again, if I continue using this paypal account to accept payments through my websites, then there’s going to be money in there pretty much all the time, which paypal could come along and take!
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Old 01-16-2008
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HI- Get a paypal ATM DEBIT CARD...pm me for details.../ cash limts/daily/weekly..
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Old 01-16-2008
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if you close your account they cant get the money . If the buyer opens a claim ...your SCREWED. I'd close the account asap
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Old 01-16-2008
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I've had an old paypal account that was 8 years old or so. Buyer filed "not as described" and paypal wouldn't even let me communicate and just automatically sided with buyer after making me wait 4 weeks expecting to say my side.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasabian View Post
wow, really? How come?

This particular account is over 4 years old, and has "308 verified buyers".

Maybe I'll just change my bank account details, so that paypal can’t delve into it. But then again, if I continue using this paypal account to accept payments through my websites, then there’s going to be money in there pretty much all the time, which paypal could come along and take!
wow thats a golden Paypal account. you might just wanna refund the buyer and move on
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Old 01-16-2008
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UPDATE:

Ok, so this afternoon he opened a "New Significantly Not as Described Dispute” with paypal. Before I even got a chance to login into paypal and have my say, he “escalated the dispute”.

Paypal automatically settled the dispute in my favour, saying that they don’t get involved in the QUALITY of the goods, just DELIVERY of them.

“As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the delivery of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary. ”


So do you guys think I’m in the clear? What if he goes to his credit card company and disputes it with them? Will paypal challange the credit card company and tell them where to go? or will paypal come chasing me again.

I’m still not sure what you guys mean by “golden paypal account”. What are the advantages of having an old paypal account with a high number of verified buyers? I don’t really get it.

thanks for all the help everyone...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasabian View Post
Hello everyone, I need some advice on something.

At the start of January, I sold a bulk load of vintage/retro toys to someone in the USA. The transaction was for $950. We settled the transaction outside of ebay, i.e. I sent him a paypal invoice and he paid.

I sent the goods via DHL airmail with a tracking number.

2 weeks later, he sends me an email saying that he has discovered that 4 of the toys were damaged. I asked him to describe the damage to me, and he did. Thing is, it’s pretty impossible for the breakages to occur in the places that he is talking about. I've sent hundred of these things over the past year, and I know where it's possible for the breakages to happen. So I’m suspecting he is lying.

He’s asking me about what he must do to make an insurance claim. I told him to check the DHL documents that came with the package, and contact DHL.

Today he replied pretty much implying that it’s my fault and I must replace the toys or issue a refund. He says he’s already contacted paypal “for his own protection”.

I’m really angry and I’m ready to give him a piece of my mind. I’m convinced he’s just out for what he can get. (sometimes you just get that vibe from someone, you know?)

I immediately withdrew all my cash from my paypal account, just incase he opens a dispute.

I just want to know what my position is. If he opens a dispute, what will happen and what might paypal do? If my paypal account is empty, will they take the cash from my bank account (attached to my paypal), if the buyer does a charge back?

I’m considering removing my bank account details from my paypal and maybe closing the account, so that they can’t do anything.

What do people think? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Just have your bank block the account. Say "please put a block on my account for 2 months". That's what I did to protect my bank from evil paypal.

Tell the buyer to provide scans of the damaged merchandise.

Tell Paypal, in the event the complaint is filed, tell them, "the buyer is in possession of the items received, and not damaged".

Fight them!
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I had a the exact same situation. Guy filed not as described. I told him send it back for refund and he never did, so i did not refund. He escalated it to claim, I automatically won and the sent me the same email. Then 3 week later they reverse the payment saying he filed a chargeback with his credit card company and they would "fight the claim on my behalf" Yeah right! Never saw a dime back, and when i emailed customer service, they said chargeback from credit cards are automatically paid and I was sh it out of luck. End result was he had the item and the money.
My only revenge was to use his name and address info on a new paypal account and ebay account selling VERO. I bet he got a few calls.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kasabian View Post
UPDATE:

Ok, so this afternoon he opened a "New Significantly Not as Described Dispute” with paypal. Before I even got a chance to login into paypal and have my say, he “escalated the dispute”.

Paypal automatically settled the dispute in my favour, saying that they don’t get involved in the QUALITY of the goods, just DELIVERY of them.

“As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the delivery of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary. ”


So do you guys think I’m in the clear? What if he goes to his credit card company and disputes it with them? Will paypal challange the credit card company and tell them where to go? or will paypal come chasing me again.

I’m still not sure what you guys mean by “golden paypal account”. What are the advantages of having an old paypal account with a high number of verified buyers? I don’t really get it.

thanks for all the help everyone...
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Old 01-16-2008
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Yeah that buyer knows what he is doing.. Except a credit card charge back very soon
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Old 01-16-2008
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Paypal, like I said with Overseas shipments---ONLY covers DELIVERY--thats it.. Not as described does not cut it with overseas--thats why its IMportant to get the goods delivered + for you sellers to have Proof..
(I personally would rather turn down a sale up front)--than hassle + spend lots of time on garbage...
--from Personal experience, last summer I ordered like $390+ ship= $440 in small goods from Singapore--they arrived and were plastic/⊗⊗⊗⊗.
I sent them back-- via Global Priority--
a.) I did file with paypal the day i shipped them off- claim immediately closed- saying only non-delivery covered under buyer protection.
b.) that must have p.o.'d the seller as they sent him an email also--he replies with I shouldnt of done that
c.) Even though I placed a value on the goods, on usps.com, and shipped global priority, he claims it never arrived,
d.) when calling post office- they say Global Priority NOT trackable once it leaves the usa..
e.) goods never showed up on my end
f.) that seller got my money + his goods back
End of No Tracking overseas for me.....
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Old 01-16-2008
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i had a customer from christmas bunch ordered stuff to his p.o box.. a month later said not arrived... i refunded to the fear he might issue a chargback for which you lose extra money to paypal to fight the case.. later that idiot said he never received the money i was furious..then he threatend negative or money... straight to black mailing me.. i had no choice but to open ebay dispute as payment not received and give him a unpaid strike.. i lost money.. my items... received negatives... and still i coudnt do anything about that fraudulent buyer.... it really sucks
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Old 01-16-2008
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i agree modee.. and you cannot close a paypal account unless i guess 30 days have passed from your last transaction which is even to your bank account/you sent/received money... it is a feature which keeps fraudulent buyers/sellers opening ⊗⊗⊗⊗ accounts using and disposing.. save your paypal account.. get over whatever bad has happened.. when you are in bussiness u must be prepared for losses.. lastly if you are too concerned about paypal taking money out of your bank account.. just suspend the direct-debit agreement with the bank if you do online banking that can be done from there.. once you feel the threat is over you can re-instate it without causing any alert from paypal side.. as it will never know unless they really try to take money out of it or deposit to it.. i hope it helps
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Old 01-17-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modee View Post
The guy above who says that PP sided against him on a "sig. not as described claim," either has a bad record with PP, or shipped the guy a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, or had the item returned to him.

The item was completely legit. I had no bad record with paypal.

It was two years ago when paypal disputes were a little different. My funds weren't locked, account not limited and I was able to take payments and withdraw funds all the time.

PayPal just refused to let me respond and sided with the buyer after several weeks wait. Buyer shipped back, but somehow did something wrong and the item got returned. Still, my funds weren't taken away and my balance was 0.

A week later I got the item back and it looked like the buyer rubbed sandpaper all over it to destroy it. I asked paypal "hypothetically, what if the buyer ships it back and it comes completely destroyed?" That's what I said. In response, paypal then took my money and gave it to the buyer falsely claiming I said I received it when I only asked a hypothetical question

Then my balance was negative.

My paypal account was 8 years old, good record, etc. No disputes. Item was completely legit. The only thing is the buyer was upset about it not fitting them, but instead of saying that, they then made up a long story about it being ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Paypal never verified it and refused to let me enter my input.
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