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Old 03-12-2016
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Default DBA Doing Business As Question

Hey everyone,


Is it possible to create a DBA for a corporation and not using a personal social security number? Because if I or anyone here makes multiple ebay/paypal accounts, there will eventually be a time when an EIN will be required for paypal. If I remember the conversation correctly, my accountant said that if I do a DBA, it will be filed with my social and go under my personal name or I would have to find out from the county clerks office if I can do it under a corporation that I have. It's the weekend now and was hoping I could get an answer.

Since my corporation already has an EIN, does that mean I can make another EIN by making a DBA?


Thanks!
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Old 03-12-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

No. Each legal entity is entitled to only ONE EIN. Since your corporation has one already, anything reported under the DBA would be under the corporate EIN.

Most of us set up LLC's for each set of stealth accounts. Each LLC can have it's own EIN as long as you choose the multi-member LLC option.

I'm not sure about what your accountant said, but many times corporations use DBA's to do business. Some larger corporations have dozens of DBA's.

A DBA for a corporation is filed with the Secretary of State, or whichever state office handles corporations and LLC's. A DBA for an individual is normally filed with whatever county office handles Assumed Name Permits.
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Old 03-12-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

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Originally Posted by jeffweico View Post
No. Each legal entity is entitled to only ONE EIN. Since your corporation has one already, anything reported under the DBA would be under the corporate EIN.

Most of us set up LLC's for each set of stealth accounts. Each LLC can have it's own EIN as long as you choose the multi-member LLC option.

I'm not sure about what your accountant said, but many times corporations use DBA's to do business. Some larger corporations have dozens of DBA's.

A DBA for a corporation is filed with the Secretary of State, or whichever state office handles corporations and LLC's. A DBA for an individual is normally filed with whatever county office handles Assumed Name Permits.

Ah Jeff You should put a donation link somewhere because your advice is always a golden treat!

What you're suggesting by creating LLC's would be considered the best economical solution to obtaining a new EIN each time for paypal? Because my accountant had me open up a corporation and had me pay his lawyer $500 for each corporation. I have 3 corporations now, but I don't want to continue paying $500 each time just to get an EIN, but definitely wouldn't mind paying like $150 instead just so I can have paypal shut up each time I reach their selling limit.
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Old 03-12-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

You can look in to cheaper states for LLC etc... Nevada may be attractive to you.

Another way of looking at it is like this, $500 a year to have a business is a pretty small fee compared to making no money or limited money without it.

By the way, ALL LLC including single member get EIN numbers.
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Old 03-12-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Filing fees for LLC's vary by state. The minimum yearly charge in California is $800. Where I am, it is $85, or slightly cheaper if you file everything online. In some states it is even lower.

Why your accountant wanted you to have a corporation rather than an LLC is a question I cannot answer. But LLC's have less paperwork and are easier to set up, IN MOST CASES. I do not know your personal situation, so his advice to use corporations may be very valid. But it seems like a more expensive route to me.
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Old 03-12-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Some LLCs can be had for about $50 last I checked..

You don't NEED a DBA and really it won't help you so just focus on the LLC/EIN.
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Aha, so I'm going to phone in my accountant on Monday and ask him about setting up an LLC now instead of a corporation. I appreciate the feedback everyone!
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Old 03-13-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Oftentimes a s-corporation is taxed at a significant less rate(up to 15%) and very well may be why your accountant likes them better. I personally use Corps mostly. Setup fee should be identical to LLC but requires a little more paperwork(per say) annually. By all means worth 15% less tax.
IF you are the sole owner of an LLC you can not get around 15% self employment tax legally. Listen to your accountant clearly on this. 15% is HUGE compared to a couple corporate meetings with yourself a year...
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Old 03-14-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

I spoke to my accountant and he said that doing an LLC would end up having the income come back to my personal name and the IRS would tend to look at that more if I have x amount of LLCs reporting income. He said that he created corporations for me because they look at those individually and if anything happens it won't come back to me so hard as compared to LLCs. I mentioned LLC and he started talking about 1 member LLC, and then I asked him about multi-member. He said that's if there are partners in but eventually the income comes back to my personal. He said it's better to just have 1 EIN for multiple accounts and didn't see why it's a problem. I explained to him many times that it's better to keep things separately, but then again, what if I don't have any issues with my ebay accounts and run them as smooth as possible without any worry of a suspension? Then linking shouldn't be a problem, right? Can I still compete with myself on listings?
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Your accountant is both right and no so much accurate also.

LLCs are taxed much higher rate because of self employment tax.

He does not understand that EACH EBAY/PAYPAL is it own business and REQUIRES its own EIN. You also get many many many more tax write offs with more entities.

I would suggest interviewing more CPAs. Keep in mind a CPA does not have to be in your own state legally unlike legal advisers. Find someone who understands internet businesses. If you use foreign state Corps, whoever you use for an agent may be able to send you in the right direction.

Wish you luck!
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

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Originally Posted by yankee View Post
Your accountant is both right and no so much accurate also.

LLCs are taxed much higher rate because of self employment tax.

He does not understand that EACH EBAY/PAYPAL is it own business and REQUIRES its own EIN. You also get many many many more tax write offs with more entities.

I would suggest interviewing more CPAs. Keep in mind a CPA does not have to be in your own state legally unlike legal advisers. Find someone who understands internet businesses. If you use foreign state Corps, whoever you use for an agent may be able to send you in the right direction.

Wish you luck!

He definitely knows that each of my ebay accounts is its own business and I believe is the reason why he decided to turn them into corps. I've been dealing with him for a few years now and I would feel guilty going to someone else. He told me that by making corps it helps to work with paying taxes better than to have it all go to me personally.
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Old 03-14-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

This is the one issue that I dread when I have to speak with an accountant or attorney who does not understand stealth. Because even when you explain it the best way that you can, they tend to be a little bit shocked. These are people who think INSIDE the box, that believe in following every rule and regulation to the T. The problem with that is, if you are going to follow every rule that every company puts in place, then you are never going to succeed in business - at least not these days.

Corporations have armies of lawyers to make sure that everything in the "agreements" we agree to by "clicking here" and never actually read favor the corporation in every conceivable scenario.

I remember my father trying to open an arcade in Chicago back in the 1980's. An arcade back then was a license to print money. A PacMan game cost about $3,000 and took in, on average, $500 per week in quarters. Of course, government fell all over themselves to quickly license and regulate arcades to make sure only the favored few were able to get a license for them. The way they used the zoning laws ensured that there were only about 20 spots in the entire city that would qualify for a license. Any other spot would have to be granted a "variance" from the Alderman. So, in order to open an arcade, you had to do two things. Hire Adam Bourgeois (he is deceased now from old age), the one attorney in the city who could make it happen for you (and WOW did he charge!) because of his connections and two, pay off the Alderman whose district your arcade was going to be in. It cost about $70,000 just to get licensed, and that is before you bought a single machine. The process took about six months, so you also had to pay rent on your proposed location for at least that long with no revenue coming in. I learned a lot from that - that the law is NOT there to benefit the average person and that following the rules was a great way to be poor. My Dad got his arcade and I have to say, that for a teenager at that time, it was a lot of fun owning one.

There were other things too, like if you had more than one or two fights at your arcade, you would have to hire security. Not just ANY security, but off duty Chicago cops who had started their own side businesses to take advantage of this. Security costs ran at $60 - $150 per hour. If you insisted on using a normal security company, you would be shut down at the Alderman's request.

So, if you were thinking of opening an arcade back then, you had a lot more in costs than just the machines and the $100 yearly license fee per machine. You had to figure in the "campaign contributions" and "security". And every arcade had security. If you opened one, there WAS quickly going to be a fight there. Not because of the kids, but because certain people made sure of it.

This is the same system that allows pharmaceutical companies to charge US Citizens ten times more for drugs than anyone else in the world pays. I could give you many more examples, but if I did that, Aspkin would have to install a bigger hard drive before the day is over.

My point is, and this is something I feel passionately about, if you want to succeed, forget about the rules. Concentrate on the question of "is that legal?" - because breaking the law is not a good idea if you value your freedom. But breaking "rules" and thinking outside the box are the only ways to be successful in life. It is a shame that it has come to this, but that is simply where we are at as a society.

OK, stepping down off the soapbox now...
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Old 03-14-2016
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Default Re: DBA Doing Business As Question

Business is business, No need to feel bad for being bigger than your current advisers can handle or understand. It is part of growth.
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