INR with tracking showing delivered - expensive items

[kirkland]

I know that if buyer opens INR and you provide tracking, eB sides with buyer if item is cheap.

But I've often heard that items over $700 require signature. Does this mean that if a $700+ item shows delivered via tracking but no signature, and buyer opens INR, that eBay will side with the buyer?

[topnotchsports]

Hopefully this isn't something your dealing with right now?? If so I feel for you man

[nickopedia]

A few months ago I had a PayPal dispute opened by one of my buyers claiming the item wasn't as described. The item was $1200+ and the guy didn't return it as he was supposed to. I provided tracking info showing it was delivered along with proof of signature (Signature Confirmation). PayPal ended up closing the case in my favor citing that the buyer failed to follow the return process.

If the item is over $700, you definitely need to use Signature Confirmation anyway. If you don't, you may not win an INR dispute as those are the rules to quality for the Seller Protection Guarantee.

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by nickopedia

A few months ago I had a PayPal dispute opened by one of my buyers claiming the item wasn't as described. The item was $1200+ and the guy didn't return it as he was supposed to. I provided tracking info showing it was delivered along with proof of signature (Signature Confirmation). PayPal ended up closing the case in my favor citing that the buyer failed to follow the return process.

If the item is over $700, you definitely need to use Signature Confirmation anyway. If you don't, you may not win an INR dispute as those are the rules to quality for the Seller Protection Guarantee.

YEP! Nickopedia knows what he's doing.... that signature is EVERYTHING. I sold an expensive industrial item to someone, he asked that I don't put a signature on it so they can leave it if he's not there, he's on a farm and it's safe and blah blah and since it was over 70LBs I know nobody is going to run with it, plus if he wasn't around and it came back, that's some expensive shipping charges, etc and it seemed like the most normal circumstance. But sure enough, a day after it showed delivered, a case was opened without even an email to me, which told me immediately it was probably a deliberate ripoff, and since there was no signature Paypal fully refunded his payment, even after calls and emails on my behalf. Looking back at his feedback, I wasn't the only one he did it to, and the worst part is that I can't even leave a red minus on his feedback to warn others... sellers have to literally go in and read through years of his feedback to notice that he did this to 12+ other people over a long stretch. Crazy. Some people just don't care what it does to you. If it's over an amount you can't afford to loose, require a signature.

[oompaloompa]

An idea, worth a try, is as soon as the case happens, send a next day signature small stealth gift to one of their neighbours and upload that tracking, with a carrier that shows area only not full address on tracking -after all if it is a farm or business, anyone there would sign not just buyer name.....how can they prove otherwise...

I had similar several years ago, signature from buyer - they bypassed INR case and went straight to credit card chargeback...it was a high amount, and personally I thought paypal should have covered it - they did not, the put me in the neg, but since I had withdrawn the money already, they were left holding the bag...but I did lose the account.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by kirkland

I know that if buyer opens INR and you provide tracking, eB sides with buyer if item is cheap.

But I've often heard that items over $700 require signature. Does this mean that if a $700+ item shows delivered via tracking but no signature, and buyer opens INR, that eBay will side with the buyer?

Its not a total given, but it is possible yes. Personally anything over £100 I get a sig for now

[dallis]

I know that if buyer opens INR and you provide tracking, eB sides with buyer if item is cheap.

As long as the tracking shows 'delivered' you should be fine.

[phaz0rz]

Originally Posted by kirkland

I know that if buyer opens INR and you provide tracking, eB sides with buyer if item is cheap.

They don't side with the buyer in those cases. They usually refund the buyer without debiting the seller or counting it as a defect in the seller's dashboard. Then it's silently recorded as a strike on the buyer's account. If the buyer is dumb enough to attempt the scam multiple times they end up being suspended. eBay hates that kind of buyer as much as sellers do because they cause eBay losses through the seller/buyer protection program.

$750 is the amount where you're required to get a signature in order to qualify for buyer/seller protection. If the order is less than $750 and your non-signature confirmation shipment shows delivery to the buyer's zip code, you will win any INR case.

[nickopedia]

I was NOT able to win ALL SNAD/INR cases proving delivery alone via tracking. Even so, the signature is just one more step, and I have found that to work in favor of the seller more often than not for winning those cases.

I think Signature Confirmation cost an extra $2.90 (via retail) or $2.45 when bought electronically. It's up to the seller if it will be worth adding or not given the risk. Would it be worth it to add that extra fee on an item over say $200? What about $50? It comes down to your tolerance for risk.

[phaz0rz]

I haven't won them all either (there's no winner when eBay steps in and eats the loss) but I've never been required to pay out when a tracking number confirms delivery in the buyer's zip code and the order is < $750. I wasn't talking about Not as Described cases. The guidelines for that type of case would be different since the customer would not be claiming non-receipt of the item.

Talking strictly about INR cases, a tracking number has always worked for me. Just my experience.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

Its not a total given, but it is possible yes. Personally anything over £100 I get a sig for now

Exactly.

You should add sig confirmation for any item that is above what you can afford to lose.

For me, that's 100 USD.

But yes, eBay rules REQUIRE sig confirmation for items above I believe it's 750.

EDIT:

Yup it's 750.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/shipping-tips.html


Remember, to be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee we require signature confirmation for packages valued at more than $750. If your transaction is $750 or more, signature confirmation will be preselected for you. You can remove this option, however, requiring a signature at delivery helps protect you if your buyer doesn't receive the item and opens a case.

You should DEFINITELY pay for sig confirm on anything 200 dollars or above. After all, sig confim is about 2 bucks, so it's 1% investment. Remember, it IS possible for someone to steal packages from someones porch or mailbox, I've had it happen to me when I lived in a larger city and I was in an upper middle class neighborhood.

[james13v]

Guess I'm the only one that despises signature conformation as a buyer. If a seller requires a sig for $100, I will be pissed. Period. $100? Really? What's that going to save you? If it shows delivered, you are protected. You're just going to make MY life harder? Now I have to be home to sign for it? Or go to the post office and wait an hour? I recently had a $200 purchase, where the buyer messaged me later and said It's signature, by an adult, and I have to open the package in front of the carrier. That's just absurd.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Exactly.



You should DEFINITELY pay for sig confirm on anything 200 dollars or above. After all, sig confim is about 2 bucks, so it's 1% investment. Remember, it IS possible for someone to steal packages from someones porch or mailbox, I've had it happen to me when I lived in a larger city and I was in an upper middle class neighborhood.

And what's your point? That's on the buyer, not the seller. If the package says delivered, you will win ( under $700 of course). Period. Everyone that says otherwise on here, is wrong, or doesn't understand how ebay works. I've won maybe 50 INR cases. Delivered? DONE. Period. NO questions asked. Doesn't matter if someone stole it from the porch or mailbox. If the buyer wants to pay for sig, they can do so. Only insurance is on the seller.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by nickopedia

I was NOT able to win ALL SNAD/INR cases proving delivery alone via tracking. Even so, the signature is just one more step, and I have found that to work in favor of the seller more often than not for winning those cases.

I think Signature Confirmation cost an extra $2.90 (via retail) or $2.45 when bought electronically. It's up to the seller if it will be worth adding or not given the risk. Would it be worth it to add that extra fee on an item over say $200? What about $50? It comes down to your tolerance for risk.

There is no risk to a seller for INR cases, proving delivery via tracking. Not exactly sure what you must have done wrong to lose that case. Should have called in and gotten a competent rep. The difference can be night and day, within minutes. I called in for a return, where a buyer shipped me his old part. I called in, and the rep said, there is no chance ebay will help me, and to just eat it. I hung up. I called back a minute later. Rep says he would be more than glad to help me, and he's sorry this happened to me. Moral of the story. If you lose, always call back, because either you messed up, or they messed up.

[dallis]

If a seller requires a sig for $100, I will be pissed.

Yeah, I REALLY HATE this. I'm too busy to deal with this BS.

If I don't really need it, I'd almost be inclined to let it go back.

Still, everyone should do what seems best to them.

[GhostOfAmazon]

I get packages all the time requiring sig. I just sign the ugly little pink paper card they leave and tape it to my mailbox. (There's a section on the slip for your signature) 2 days later the package is at my door. (The next day the postal carrier picks up the paper, and delivers it along with the rest of the mail the following day).

I don't think my post offices are special. I've lived in several states, it's always worked for me.

Maybe UPS and FedEx have special rules. I don't use them.

You might need to ask your postal employee about it. Maybe if you live somewhere in the sticks they won't have it, but if you live in the boonies you probably know everyone in town on a first name basis anyways and they can deliver it to you and let you sign a piece of paper or something you leave in the mailbox, lol.

If you're pissed about it, it's not my problem. I've never had any issues with sig confirmation. I send an email ahead of time letting them know I'm including sig confirmation "Because this is a high value item and I want to make sure it reaches you. There have been reports of increased package theft recently. Thanks for understanding! "

Never had an issue.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by james13v

There is no risk to a seller for INR cases, proving delivery via tracking. Not exactly sure what you must have done wrong to lose that case. Should have called in and gotten a competent rep. The difference can be night and day, within minutes. I called in for a return, where a buyer shipped me his old part. I called in, and the rep said, there is no chance ebay will help me, and to just eat it. I hung up. I called back a minute later. Rep says he would be more than glad to help me, and he's sorry this happened to me. Moral of the story. If you lose, always call back, because either you messed up, or they messed up.

Have to agree with this.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil everytime.

Half the reps are incompetent, stupid, and lazy. Fortunately anything one does can be undone by another, so just keep calling until you get a yes.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

I get packages all the time requiring sig. I just sign the ugly little pink paper card they leave and tape it to my mailbox. (There's a section on the slip for your signature) 2 days later the package is at my door. (The next day the postal carrier picks up the paper, and delivers it along with the rest of the mail the following day).

I don't think my post offices are special. I've lived in several states, it's always worked for me.

Maybe UPS and FedEx have special rules. I don't use them.

You might need to ask your postal employee about it. Maybe if you live somewhere in the sticks they won't have it, but if you live in the boonies you probably know everyone in town on a first name basis anyways and they can deliver it to you and let you sign a piece of paper or something you leave in the mailbox, lol.

If you're pissed about it, it's not my problem. I've never had any issues with sig confirmation. I send an email ahead of time letting them know I'm including sig confirmation "Because this is a high value item and I want to make sure it reaches you. There have been reports of increased package theft recently. Thanks for understanding! "

Never had an issue.

If I'm waiting on a package and really need it, an extra 2 days of waiting, on the already slow post office, isn't something I'm a fan of..... And when i'm in a hurry, and then have to go wait in line at the post office? Half the people I see come in, to pick up a package, or then told they have to come in the next day because the driver wasn't back yet.

And UPS or Fedex? Jesus, that's even harder. a lot of times, you CAN'T just sign that little slip of paper. And this latest one, that needs an adult around, to even open the package in front of the delivery person? For a $200 item? That's going to save him from a return how exactly?

And how will a sig help you exactly? It's not going to help with an INR case, because of delivery confirmation, unless the package is lost, and it's usually lost long before it's time for a signature. So you're just putting customers through more of a hassle for no reason. I guess you're less likely to have false INR claims. BUT, those claims would be closed out anyways, so no skin off your back.

[GhostOfAmazon]

^

Like it or not people HAVE lost INR cases despite tracking showing delivery.

Customers can whine and whine and whine and if they get a sympathetic ear, it can be closed against you.

Can you appeal and overturn? Sure, but some people are paranoid to call eBay (lol).

Also, packages ARE stolen. It happens EVERYDAY.

For me, I KNOW if a package is signed for, it was delivered, and I know who signed for it. That way, if the customers name is "JEFFERSON" and "SMITH" signed for it, I can tell the customer, "Do you have any neighbors with the name R. Smith?" and then the issue is resolved, either they'll know the jig is up because I have the sig, or they know who the package was delivered to.

Sig confirmation is just one extra peace of mind. You can win INR cases (WITH EBAY) with just delivery confirmation, but for the extra 2 bucks the peace of mind is well worth it on high value items. Plus you know the customer won't have the item stolen, which again, HAPPENS EVERYDAY. Maybe you live in some really nice gated community, but not all people do. Also, nice neighborhoods are prime targets for package theft, as they tend to get deliveries worth more money.

It's always a personal choice, but as a seller, the biggest cost is the 2 bucks and change. Buyers might whine a little, but if they don't like it they can make a purchase somewhere else.

Don't even get me started on Amazon, where you can lose INR cases even with tracking.....

[kkoneo]

This is an area where Ive have many many problems with eBay. I frequently buy high value items and sometimes you get scammers who just ship you a 1 lb package and have it delivered at some random address in the same zip code WITH signature.

So now, someone has signed for the package and it shows delivered and signed for just not to you. You open INR case on eBay and of course the rep looks at it and sides against you without even reading everything you wrote since it's been delivered with signature.

Now you are in a battle to get your money back because eBay will refuse to verify anything with postal customer service. All they know is that it was delivered and signed for. The End.

I hate scammers :(