NI - do businesses have to give?

[starengine]

There's some big sellers on ebay.
Do they need to give an NI?
Did Argos need to give the NI of the CEO or something?

Not including big well known names...
There's some sellers who have a turnover of millions.
If HMRC connect the turnover purely on an NI to one individual...
Then wrong conclusions will happen?

If someone sells £20k, then they should pay tax on that like anyone else.
But when it comes to a company... then it gets more complicated and not straight forward.

Just speculating: selling on ebay is a problem for people who claim benefits. Anyone else who's just running a business doesn't need to worry?

So... if a big business sells zillions and has income connected to one single individual... then that really doesn't matter? The tax reporting of income will happen elsewhere, like the accounting done for the company.

(Just sharing my thoughts... I'm not expecting many of us to be accounting experts here. LOL)

[agent006140]

The company includes their ecommerce sales in its tax return.
When they open an Ebay account,they use the company business and tax number,company address.
Most usually have their own wesbites and sell the returns,refurbished and out of production products on Ebay,eg Clark shoes.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by agent006140

The company includes their ecommerce sales in its tax return.
When they open an Ebay account,they use the company business and tax number,company address.
Most usually have their own wesbites and sell the returns,refurbished and out of production products on Ebay,eg Clark shoes.

Literally, you didnt answer the question at all. You know literally nothing its so funny.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by starengine

There's some big sellers on ebay.
Do they need to give an NI?
Did Argos need to give the NI of the CEO or something?

Not including big well known names...
There's some sellers who have a turnover of millions.
If HMRC connect the turnover purely on an NI to one individual...
Then wrong conclusions will happen?

If someone sells £20k, then they should pay tax on that like anyone else.
But when it comes to a company... then it gets more complicated and not straight forward.

Just speculating: selling on ebay is a problem for people who claim benefits. Anyone else who's just running a business doesn't need to worry?

So... if a big business sells zillions and has income connected to one single individual... then that really doesn't matter? The tax reporting of income will happen elsewhere, like the accounting done for the company.

(Just sharing my thoughts... I'm not expecting many of us to be accounting experts here. LOL)

It does make you wonder doesn't it? I guess there are exceptions for the big sellers with eBay, I can't imagine Argos being tied to one single person as I doubt it's even owned by one person.

eBay with NI is a problem for many people, many people who are working, not just those on benefits, use it as a side hustle to survive. Survival is very diffierent to what the right wing press like to make headlines with.

[murdered_by_ebay]

much talk about nothing , all this is described in official documentation

individual / sole trader = NIN

limited company = company number

the size of the business does not matter , only the legal form does

[agent006140]

I dont think he knows much how business is run.
question-
if sole trader is turning over 6-7 figures,would that draw attention of some watch dogs?regulatory agencies?
I know in USA,US customs,FBI,IRS,local police,state and city governments do look,years ago some of us received phone calls from our state,they said they went to EBAY and found all the sellers based in the state and called to ask if we have been reporting sales,collecting sales tax .
I was audited one year by a state auditor,they know how to access my Paypal account to retrieve up to 7 years of my account.
(There is no income tax in our state)

[WestHammer]

One of the things you can bet on is that eBay know this is going to cost them a sizeable chunk of their UK business, so they'll drag their heals as much as they can. It's not their idea, they and all other platforms are being forced down this road. They'll do just enough to make them compliant with the new legislation.

This will all come down to how long it takes HMRC to put systems and processes into place to deal with the massive amount of information that's going to fall on their desk next January. Given that they've just had to cancel 30,000 late payment self assessment fees because they don't have the manpower to process them, then that should give you a good idea of where they currently are.

I spoke to an accountant earlier this week as I was worried what impact this is going to have and was told he expects this to take at least a decade until it's anywhere near a decent level of efficiency. It was his opinion that they'll go after the VAT whales and very probably won't even look at anything less than 6 figures.

[BeachedHead]

Originally Posted by WestHammer

One of the things you can bet on is that eBay know this is going to cost them a sizeable chunk of their UK business, so they'll drag their heals as much as they can. It's not their idea, they and all other platforms are being forced down this road. They'll do just enough to make them compliant with the new legislation.

This will all come down to how long it takes HMRC to put systems and processes into place to deal with the massive amount of information that's going to fall on their desk next January. Given that they've just had to cancel 30,000 late payment self assessment fees because they don't have the manpower to process them, then that should give you a good idea of where they currently are.

I spoke to an accountant earlier this week as I was worried what impact this is going to have and was told he expects this to take at least a decade until it's anywhere near a decent level of efficiency. It was his opinion that they'll go after the VAT whales and very probably won't even look at anything less than 6 figures.

That's the general feeling with my accountant too. Her own words 'smoke and mirrors'.

Some folk on this forum seem to think that because of AI (this gets used for everything now, often incorrectly through misunderstanding of the so called technology) that it will all be an automated process and the TAX men and woman will be at your door to arrest you in a few days after January 31st.

They will however send out the scare letters to anyone who has supplied a genuine address and NI number, so they will get many to register and pay their dues. That will hit their targets at least for a few years.

[SaiJin]

If this is something new for UK and it's a major subject we need to worry about, I'll move the thread to the top so more people can see it.

[murdered_by_ebay]

that reminds me of the movie "burn after reading" where all characters massively exaggerate who they are and how important they really are

[ft16]

Originally Posted by starengine

There's some big sellers on ebay.
Do they need to give an NI?
Did Argos need to give the NI of the CEO or something?

Not including big well known names...
There's some sellers who have a turnover of millions.
If HMRC connect the turnover purely on an NI to one individual...
Then wrong conclusions will happen?

If someone sells £20k, then they should pay tax on that like anyone else.
But when it comes to a company... then it gets more complicated and not straight forward.

No, companies don't have to give a NI number, they can be identified by their company number, partnerships have to give the UTR for the partnership.

[ft16]

Originally Posted by starengine

If someone sells £20k, then they should pay tax on that like anyone else.

If someone sells 20k, and that's their only income they're very unlikely to have any tax to pay anyway.

[murdered_by_ebay]

even if it were 50K the actual tax is not that high , no VAT , penalty would need to be paid but also expenses could be deducted. it is not clear to me though who is going to process all this

[james_112233]

I'm more concerned about making tax digital that's being implemented next year. Everyone turning over more than.50k has to do quarterly tax returns even if you're not a vat registered business.

[murdered_by_ebay]

there are still about 3 years left , I would say they are trying to increase discipline , if it were something else the actual thresholds would need to be changed

[ft16]

Originally Posted by james_112233

I'm more concerned about making tax digital that's being implemented next year. Everyone turning over more than.50k has to do quarterly tax returns even if you're not a vat registered business.

I'm actually looking forward to Making Tax Digital next year. As someone who always leaves my tax return till the last minute, it's a total nightmare trying to remember transaction details and find receipts/statements from 8-20 months ago. Then there's the panic of coming up with a load of cash by the end of January!

Doing quarterly returns should help me stay on top of things rather than facing that annual mountain of receipts and stress.

[ft16]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

even if it were 50K the actual tax is not that high , no VAT , penalty would need to be paid but also expenses could be deducted. it is not clear to me though who is going to process all this

Exactly, assuming a profit margin of 30%, leaving them with £15k after fees, p+p and cost of the goods, then the tax on their 50k turnover with no other income would only be £631.80, hardly Al Capone levels of tax evasion, we're not exactly talking about hiding millions in offshore accounts here!

The taxman isn't going to kick your door down at dawn for that amount.

[james_112233]

I'm comfortably still using spreadsheets ... What software are you guys going to use ? My accountant hasn't told me anything yet.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by james_112233

I'm more concerned about making tax digital that's being implemented next year. Everyone turning over more than.50k has to do quarterly tax returns even if you're not a vat registered business.

Actually surprising that tax digital took so long to implement.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by ft16

Exactly, assuming a profit margin of 30%, leaving them with £15k after fees, p+p and cost of the goods, then the tax on their 50k turnover with no other income would only be £631.80, hardly Al Capone levels of tax evasion, we're not exactly talking about hiding millions in offshore accounts here!

The taxman isn't going to kick your door down at dawn for that amount.

I am sure there may be some cases where it is done for publicity but otherwise there are bigger fish to catch , for example they check which insurance people sign up for and which property they possess

that reminds me of a guy who was selling on ebay and declaring 5000 profit per year who got a tax investigation but the actual investigation arose not because of ebay but because of his 50K car that had been paid for in cash

[OldTom]

Originally Posted by ft16

No, companies don't have to give a NI number, they can be identified by their company number, partnerships have to give the UTR for the partnership.

As murdered_by_ebay said, sellers will provided one of two pieces of information. Partnerships (LLP) will supply their company number, not their UTR.

Indeed, it will be a very rare instance where an existing Limited Company or Partnership hasn't already supplied this, so for them it will be business as usual.

[OldTom]

Originally Posted by james_112233

I'm more concerned about making tax digital that's being implemented next year. Everyone turning over more than.50k has to do quarterly tax returns even if you're not a vat registered business.

It's not turnover it's income. It is Income Tax which is being made digital.

HMRC explain the difference between the two in their guidance notes for VAT and Income Tax registration.