Buyer purchaseed £700 new sealed camera, now wants refund

[lucy]

I sold a £700 camera on Amazon which was an unwanted gift, brand new and sealed, the buyer clearly read the description, now he has told Amazon he wants a refund. He sent me a request for a refund. He is also asking me to provide a returns label.

The way the buyer is behaving he assumes I am a big company or business sellers, I am an individual seller.

THE Buyer argument is no touch screen and zoom not long enough - this cannot be a valid reason for a refund, because the listing conatined product description which clearly doesnt not mention anything about touchscreen. So he cannot say he bought it thinking it had touchscreen.

Buyer has used the camera. The seal is broken, obviously used the camera for him to make these claims for reason for return.

But the thing is I am not a business on Amazon, I'm selling my household items such as books, baby chair, etc.. anything which i no longer require in the house.

So why is this person saying he is entitled to a refund within 30 days, that only applies to a business.

The camera no longer in its original condition and now classed as a used / second hand item. Because it is now used, its value has dropped and i will find it difficult to sell at its original price. But what surprises me, if i sold something on ebay or gumtree, i would not expec buyer to contact me after a few days and say they want to return item.

There is an option on the request page to deny the request but first thought best to get advice in case he decides to take this matter further.

He is basically trying to bully me into taking the camera back.

[muzzie]

Have you moved your money out of Amazon?

[lucy]

Originally Posted by muzzie

Have you moved your money out of Amazon?

yes the same the day i dispatched the item. But money not come into bank. ~Think it takes 5 working days

[lucy]

Quick update, When buyer initially requested return, the reason selected was " Return reason: Incompatible or not useful for intended purpose". no touch screen and zoom not long enough .

Today, received email which states return reason, "Reason for contact: Damaged, Defective or Incorrect Item"

"Details: Customer wish to return the item because the camera does not have a touchscreen and the zoom is not powerful enough. Please provide a return label to the customer as soon as possible and inform the customer once it has been done."


Buyer has now involved Amazon directly and the return reason is different.

Simple question, do i ignore the email hooing buyer will stop or simply click on the 'deny request' option which i feel will make the buyer escalate the problem.

[BiN4RY]

I'd personally deny the request and let Amazon review the case. Make sure you write a message saying it's obvious the buyer's having remorse over his purchase for the record.

[oompaloompa]

the reason probably got changed when the buyer realised they had to pay for return postage or not, depending on reason selected.

if amazon reviews it, the outcome will still be a return, the outcome will never be deny return and you keep money. Buyer is allowed to have remorse and return it under the distance selling regulations - they do not have to even give a reason actually....

I know it is annoying, very...........

[lucy]

Originally Posted by BiN4RY

I'd personally deny the request and let Amazon review the case. Make sure you write a message saying it's obvious the buyer's having remorse over his purchase for the record.

Thanks for your advice. But with the amount of messages the buyer sending i am concerned amazon will take his side. How can i convince amazon this buyer is in the wrong, because i have already opened a case on the day he requested refund but case status is still pending and amazon not bothered replying to me. However they are sending me emails on buyer behalf requesting return labels?

Can you tell me what to write, i dont mind in a pm ?

[lucy]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

the reason probably got changed when the buyer realised they had to pay for return postage or not, depending on reason selected.

if amazon reviews it, the outcome will still be a return, the outcome will never be deny return and you keep money. Buyer is allowed to have remorse and return it under the distance selling regulations - they do not have to even give a reason actually....

I know it is annoying, very...........

However since buyer opened the seal and used the camera. Therefore item is no longer in its original condition and now classed as a used / second hand item. Because it is now used, its value has dropped and i will find it difficult to sell at its original price.

Plus noticed amazon allow restock fees.

Is it possible to charge buyer 20% or 15% restock fee and the amount refunded will be less than what he paid. This will compensate me for relisting, buyer usage of item and item value being reduced because of usage. And when he returns item If anything is found the refund will be further reduced.

If i send buyer above message and if he agrees then i might go ahead with return, if he refuses i can deny his request? If he then opens a case i will mention the above to amazon?

Is this a sensible approach?

[BiN4RY]

Yeah it's definitely better to ask the buyer to pay a restocking fee. It's almost guaranteed the buyer will win this case anyways

[newjerseymax]

This sucks and its a major reason I hate selling electronics. I cant count how many items I had to resell as used, because it was returned.

You really don't have much choice here. You might be able to force the buyer to pay shipping, however I don't think Amazon will budge. They are the buyer and you are the seller. They see it 90% in buyers favor anyway.

You can literally do the same thing with any big box store, buy new one and return old one. I don't condone this, however some big box stores got plenty extra cash in pockets.

[oompaloompa]

re-stocking fee is a different concept to the approach of saying that the buyer effectively de-valued the product.

distance selling does mean returning in same condition - but in reality amazon does not care too much about that part of it and will force a return.

with re-stocking fee, dont you have to stipulate this on your T&Cs? Not sure how this would clash with the newer distance selling laws.....

[salemzaid1]

Originally Posted by lucy

I sold a £700 camera on Amazon which was an unwanted gift, brand new and sealed, the buyer clearly read the description, now he has told Amazon he wants a refund. He sent me a request for a refund. He is also asking me to provide a returns label.

The way the buyer is behaving he assumes I am a big company or business sellers, I am an individual seller.

THE Buyer argument is no touch screen and zoom not long enough - this cannot be a valid reason for a refund, because the listing conatined product description which clearly doesnt not mention anything about touchscreen. So he cannot say he bought it thinking it had touchscreen.

Buyer has used the camera. The seal is broken, obviously used the camera for him to make these claims for reason for return.

But the thing is I am not a business on Amazon, I'm selling my household items such as books, baby chair, etc.. anything which i no longer require in the house.

So why is this person saying he is entitled to a refund within 30 days, that only applies to a business.

The camera no longer in its original condition and now classed as a used / second hand item. Because it is now used, its value has dropped and i will find it difficult to sell at its original price. But what surprises me, if i sold something on ebay or gumtree, i would not expec buyer to contact me after a few days and say they want to return item.

There is an option on the request page to deny the request but first thought best to get advice in case he decides to take this matter further.

He is basically trying to bully me into taking the camera back.

What if you took it back and returned it to the manufacturer? Maybe the problem "happened with you" and not someone else. Maybe they'll send you a new one sealed. Not sure.

I had the same situation. If you need to buy more time, when they tell you the message (send an address in ___ country or offer a prepaid label), act dumb and send them the address to your country (not the same as his). What this will do is extend the process for a few days until Amazon replies again and again...

Good luck let me know what happens

[lucy]

Hi everyone

I finally received a reply from amazon regarding this dispute:



"Greetings from Amazon Seller Support.

My name is **** and I would be assisting you today. Thank you for bringing the matter to our concern. From your email received, I was able to understand that you have provided Order ID: ******* stating buyer has asked for refund giving a reason of product specifications and as you believe buyer should have firstly checked the specs before buying and you wish to reject the request.

I completely understand from your email that your buyer is claiming for refund and I understand you are an Individual Seller and you do not wish to refund the buyer.

I admire your passion and dedication towards your business and for that I do my best to provide you with as much support I can.

Please be informed, its upto you if you do not wish to refund the buyer. However, please be informed that if the buyer files an A-Z Guarantee Claim or leaves a negative feedback on this order, in either case please know that our investigation teams will hear from both seller and buyer and then provide the final decision.

We will never charge a seller for claim that are not seller faulted. Also, there are instances where Amazon pays for the A-Z claim if it finds that neither parties are not at fault.

Here are the possible scenario that might happen and remedy that we will be doing to fully protect you.

(a) In this case, if the buyer files an A-Z claim, it is best advised for you to represent your side in this A-Z claim with the relevant information and the images of the used item received so that the claim can be granted easily in your favour. As long as there are images what would prove item is used by the Customer any complaint that may file shall be forfeited.

(b) Also, we have a dedicated team for negative feedback removal. You can contact our feedback removal team, in case the buyer leaves a negative feedback on this order. The team will review the case and will remove the negative feedback for you

In this case, if you feel that the buyer is taking advantage over this situation and he is attempting to inappropriately solicit an accommodation from you, you have the option to report a violation against the buyer for false buying practises to our investigations team. Please know that once a report violation has been submitted against the buyer, our investigations team will review the appeal and take appropriate action.

You can directly write to our investigation team at investigate@amazon.co.uk from your registered primary contact email address so that they investigate about the buyer and take appropriate action. Please provide a detailed account of the situation.

[oompaloompa]

so they want photos and say the claim will be forfeited if the item is used. I wonder if you can get pics from the buyer and if the buyer refuses, what amazon reaction would be to that.

if you were to take a return and then send photos, would amazon believe your photos, or assume that you tampered with the item yourself?

I dont get how it works though, unless you do not get it returned, the claim cannot be forfeited, so you have to get pics to use as proof. Because once it is returned, surely the buyer would get at least some refund back...I cannot see az giving a partial refund.....

my guess is their default would be just like ebay...buyer gets refund, and if seller is aggreived they should go to small claims - the end....

it is good to see amazon offering a solution, I just dont trust them.....I have had one rep catagorically say one thing and you think you have it in writing and are covered, but then another rep says another thing next and you are screwed and if you continue to protest you get a feeling it will be your account getting risked, especially if you read the az section of this forum......

[lucy]

True, another rep might say the opposite. however, I do have a picture of the item before it was sent to the buyer showing the box sealed with official sony seal tape. Hopefully amazon should not favour the buyer

[oompaloompa]

so has the buyer provided pics?

[lucy]

update, you guys were right. no matter what the seller says, amazon will favour the buyer. They are demanding i issue the refund within 3 days.

Buyer has provided pics but the seal is slightly raised. Seems buyer used it and resealed the box.

He is also refusing to accept restock fee. Amazon took commission from the sale, in total i received £644.41. I told buyer i can only return £644.41 but he insists the full amount of £700 which i do not have. So im at a loss.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by lucy

update, you guys were right. no matter what the seller says, amazon will favour the buyer. They are demanding i issue the refund within 3 days.

Buyer has provided pics but the seal is slightly raised. Seems buyer used it and resealed the box.

He is also refusing to accept restock fee. Amazon took commission from the sale, in total i received £644.41. I told buyer i can only return £644.41 but he insists the full amount of £700 which i do not have. So im at a loss.

I doubt amazon works much different than ebay, so I don't know why refunding the buyer, wouldn't automatically give you back the commission to be refunded as well.

And are you saying they want you to send a refund, before he even ships the item?

[lucy]

Originally Posted by james13v

I doubt amazon works much different than ebay, so I don't know why refunding the buyer, wouldn't automatically give you back the commission to be refunded as well.

And are you saying they want you to send a refund, before he even ships the item?

I have received the item back. And i was correct, the buyer did use the item, seal was lose, it was torn beneath. I have no choice but to still issue full refund because Amazon Specialist are ignorant. They seem to be based in india and based on their response they are totally incapable of doing their jobs. They send out template emails

[rsot]

Originally Posted by lucy

I have received the item back. And i was correct, the buyer did use the item, seal was lose, it was torn beneath. I have no choice but to still issue full refund because Amazon Specialist are ignorant. They seem to be based in india and based on their response they are totally incapable of doing their jobs. They send out template emails

Buyers have a lot of power :( at least you got the item back although not what you wanted...sad reality of the sale

[lucy]

Originally Posted by rsot

Buyers have a lot of power :( at least you got the item back although not what you wanted...sad reality of the sale

Just been speaking to Amazon seller support. I explained the situation. Seems buyer was too clever for me. Because Amazon support asked if i accepted the return. I told her i was pressured by Amazon payment team and the actual buyer.

She replied the buyer had cancelled the a-z claim so i should not have accepted the return. I told her i was constantly receiving emails by Amazon and the buyer so i gave in. I checked my online account and noticed buyer cancelled the a-z claim 28th Sept. It seems he was tracking the delivery and as soon as i received it, he cancelled claim knowing i now have the item in my possession and must issue a refund.

I explained to her the seal was opened and buyer attempted to reseal item. She said item now classed as "item not returned in original condition" so i am entitled to give partial refund.

Honestly i am very angry with the buyer.

[rsot]

I can understand your anger - but the flip side is if the A-Z claim was allowed then you would not have got the item back.

It does suck about that broken seal.