Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security

[JHerald]

Hi all,

I recently closed a PayPal account after 12 months of use. All financial information was removed before the closure and the account status was clean without a limitation in place.

2 months on and I received a rather strange email from PayPal UK explaining that the account has raised some serious security concerns and have recovered the account from the previous closure to help them understand these concerns.

Thinking I wouldn't be able to login, as the account was supposed to be 'closed' on their system, to my surprise I was logged into the account successfully.

What became even stranger was that all deleted financial information, both my bank account and debit card, were back in my Wallet and couldn't be removed due to a new limitation they've placed.

I've never known this in 7 years of using PayPal. Although they retained account records and fragments of finance data, they've now started taking random snapshots of our accounts, allowing them to restore back to that state and reverse any changes to its information like removing a card.

There was one step to appeal the limitation, which is to send various bits of documentation to "address our concerns" regarding the account's use.

Has anyone else encountered this yet? Are account closures and removal of finance data becoming as less secure as keeping it on the account in the first place?

[JamesNorth101]

PayPal never really delete information.

I have not come across them re-adding bank accounts and cards before nor clsing an account only to be able to log in a few months alter again, but its always been the case that just because you delete information off PayPal doesn't mean that its actually removed from their system

[JHerald]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

PayPal never really delete information.

I have not come across them re-adding bank accounts and cards before, but just because you delete information off PayPal doesn't mean that its actually removed from their system

Over the past few months they've been upgrading their service. From a brand new Resolution Center to an improved login interface.

It seems that they've also upgraded their anti-fraud system. They will now continuously block any transactions outgoing for days until a human reviews the risk and marks it as authorized or unauthorized access. This is how most limitations are placed, so I close accounts when this happens before they have a chance to shoot me metaphorically.

According to their support service, PayPal reserve the right to retain; restore or otherwise distribute, in accordance with their User Agreement, most account information in the prevention of fraud and high-risk use of PayPal.

Whilst they never delete records, this occurrence could be a new feature for their security processes.

[zamzam]

Apparently the Interpol database is also being used to verify authenticity of documents, confirmed via account specialist in escalations. Not sure if that's true but if so huge upgrade...

[blobby]

Originally Posted by zamzam

Apparently the Interpol database is also being used to verify authenticity of documents, confirmed via account specialist in escalations. Not sure if that's true but if so huge upgrade...

Oh please....

Nothing new is really happening at all. They have always been able to keep your personal data for 6 years plus. There is no actual legal time frame to how long a company can keep personal data, under the Data Protection Act. However the 'guidelines' are 'no longer than necessary'. Now since Ebay and Paypal both chase for debts owed, and the statute barred time limit under the Limitation Act is 6 years from the time the debt is marked as a default, then you are looking realistically at 6 - 8 years they can quite legally keep all your personal data for.

No need to panic, nothing has changed regarded what they know about you.

[James Brown]

Er...actually if what Zamzam said about verifying documents is true, then things have changed drastically and no stealth account is safe - even if it previously passed checks. This would explain the recent rise in number of accounts people have reported being limited. I think common sense dictates at some point they would have to start verifying customer data as things were pretty haphazard in past.

As always with stealth proceed with caution to limit any losses that can easily be incurred.

Regarding them retaining your card and bank details, if you're paranoid about them keeping them on their system, report the card as lost and get a new card number issued. Obviously not so easy with bank but, since no good for paypal anymore maybe close account. I have to admit I'm not happy about them keeping my bank details in dormant paypal accounts either.

[blobby]

Originally Posted by James Brown

Er...actually if what Zamzam said about verifying documents is true, then things have changed drastically and no stealth account is safe - even if it previously passed checks. This would explain the recent rise in number of accounts people have reported being limited. I think common sense dictates at some point they would have to start verifying customer data as things were pretty haphazard in past.

As always with stealth proceed with caution to limit any losses that can easily be incurred.

Regarding them retaining your card and bank details, if you're paranoid about them keeping them on their system, report the card as lost and get a new card number issued. Obviously not so easy with bank but, since no good for paypal anymore maybe close account. I have to admit I'm not happy about them keeping my bank details in dormant paypal accounts either.

GET REAL! What Zamzam says is completely unfounded and untrue.

Interpol now working for paypal to confirm documents?

You do understand interpol doesn't actually have any agents and all it is, is a liason system between signed up members? Each member country will nominate people from their own law enforcement agencies to act with equivilant others, if a trans national investigation is required.

There is no sudden rise in accounts limited at all. No more from 6 months ago, no more than a year ago, no more than 3 or 5 years ago.

People (stealthers) always think this but it is always proved as rubbish. Human nature predicts we put more empathisis on more recent actions and memories. So if you have had recent accounts close or read about a lot of closures then that is the memory most at the forefront of your mind. Paypal and ebay have always worked in cycles where they can have above average account closures and plunders that can last 3 or more months at a time.

And why would you report a card lost or stolen? Any card you have attached should be a virtual card if you add one at all, not a real one in your name. There are only very specific ways it is even possible to add a 'real' card in your own name in stealth, so rare you will hardly ever see it mentioned on here because if operating like this you wouldn't be '100% stealth'.

So please tell me why you feel there is a need to phone up the bank to cancel a card in your name?

Why is there an issue with paypal keeping hold on your bank details anyway? If you operate stealth well and use bank accounts how they should with stealth then it should make absolutely no difference at all. Paypal would still have your details whether you shut your account or not, and banks still keep all details of closed accounts on file for years too.

The only thing that should be done with a limited paypal, is if there is an account with an active DD attached, then cancel it. However that is standard basic stealth anyway.

[zamzam]

If you took your time to read what I outlined OP instead of jumping to conclusions, maybe your response would have been of a alternative nature. Either way no one said anything about Interpol working for pp. What was confirmed by one of their account specialist is they have access to the Interpol database and use it to corfirm authenticity of docs occasionally...

[blobby]

Originally Posted by zamzam

If you took your time to read what I outlined OP instead of jumping to conclusions, maybe your response would have been of a alternative nature. Either way no one said anything about Interpol working for pp. What was confirmed by one of their account specialist is they have access to the Interpol database and use it to corfirm authenticity of docs occasionally...

A-I am not the OP

B- You are talking absolute BS. Paypal do not have access to any such data base. It is bad enough you were told this BS, even worse you believe it.

C- The only database that would be even relevent is the SLTD database, which only Law Enforcement, Customs etc have the power to check. However since ONLY passports etc. that have been reported lost or stolen are on this list, it should be irrelevant to ALL stealthers here, since stealth relies on using fictional details.

[spindoctor]

Hahahaha interpol? No such database!

Who ever came up with that idea owes me a new keyboard, i just spat my drink i'm laughing that much. Flip sake... can't make this up!

[James Brown]

So Blobby, you're saying Paypal have no way of checking any docs because only law enforcement have access to check them Lol. How do you think banks and building societies check docs are valid??? Even the post office are running an identity scheme now so I am certain a multi national business such as Paypal has no problem when they do bother to make checks - normally after accounts have been limited.

As for paypal retaining bank and card details, then yes some of us had our real details in Paypal accounts once - which probably remain there to this day. That would be a good reason to report a card as lost.

You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it is inevitable Paypal will be stepping up checks for customers, especially since they seem to be heavily promoting their credit schemes including the monthly payments for ebay items. You must have noticed the option of monthly payments now appearing beside the buy now button on many ebay items. To offer credit to customers they need to check identities, so the more customers they check the more people they can offer credit to = more profit for Paypal.

[spindoctor]

Read paypals terms and conditions! They hire a third party to check if a document has been edited!

they are not a bank, they don't have the authority to do government checks.

The third party uses a software program to see if a document has been edited. The best edited documents can pass. the ones that are badly done obviously do not.

It's all in paypals terms and conditions if you have the patience to read them.

Originally Posted by James Brown

So Blobby, you're saying Paypal have no way of checking any docs because only law enforcement have access to check them Lol. How do you think banks and building societies check docs are valid??? Even the post office are running an identity scheme now so I am certain a multi national business such as Paypal has no problem when they do bother to make checks - normally after accounts have been limited.

As for paypal retaining bank and card details, then yes some of us had our real details in Paypal accounts once - which probably remain there to this day. That would be a good reason to report a card as lost.

You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it is inevitable Paypal will be stepping up checks for customers, especially since they seem to be heavily promoting their credit schemes including the monthly payments for ebay items. You must have noticed the option of monthly payments now appearing beside the buy now button on many ebay items. To offer credit to customers they need to check identities, so the more customers they check the more people they can offer credit to = more profit for Paypal.

[spindoctor]

Originally Posted by James Brown

You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it is inevitable Paypal will be stepping up checks for customers, especially since they seem to be heavily promoting their credit schemes including the monthly payments for ebay items. You must have noticed the option of monthly payments now appearing beside the buy now button on many ebay items. To offer credit to customers they need to check identities, so the more customers they check the more people they can offer credit to = more profit for Paypal.

Again.... a third party offers credit checking on behalf of paypal. not document checking!!!


Also,

there are millions of people out there that don't have a credit profile. that don't have government issued ids. there is no legal requirement to do so.

[blobby]

Originally Posted by James Brown

So Blobby, you're saying Paypal have no way of checking any docs because only law enforcement have access to check them Lol. How do you think banks and building societies check docs are valid??? Even the post office are running an identity scheme now so I am certain a multi national business such as Paypal has no problem when they do bother to make checks - normally after accounts have been limited.

Never said that at all. I just said what zamzam stated was complete rubbish and Interpol have nothing to do with any process. Only so much paypal can check. That is completely irrelevant to what has been said and payapl have been able to do this for years.

Originally Posted by James Brown

As for paypal retaining bank and card details, then yes some of us had our real details in Paypal accounts once - which probably remain there to this day. That would be a good reason to report a card as lost.

Not on stealth accounts, unless you are a total idiot. Or using for a very rare specific use.

Originally Posted by James Brown

You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it is inevitable Paypal will be stepping up checks for customers, especially since they seem to be heavily promoting their credit schemes including the monthly payments for ebay items. You must have noticed the option of monthly payments now appearing beside the buy now button on many ebay items. To offer credit to customers they need to check identities, so the more customers they check the more people they can offer credit to = more profit for Paypal.

They have always done this. Done these checks and had the potential to use Credit agencies. Nothing has changed. That isn't me burying my head in the sand. That is me reading this forum for enough years to realise that people panic and scaremonger at the slightest little bit of hearsay without any evidence to back it up.

[James Brown]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

PayPal never really delete information.

I have not come across them re-adding bank accounts and cards before nor clsing an account only to be able to log in a few months alter again, but its always been the case that just because you delete information off PayPal doesn't mean that its actually removed from their system

Yes, they obviously have multiple backups of all the data on their systems so in theory even if you did delete it from your particular account the data could reappear at a later date if they restored the system. I believe people have said old addresses have suddenly reappeared again after having been changed months ago.

Plus it is in their interest to retain bank and card details, so they can make sure people never use them again after permanent limitations etc.

[James Brown]

Originally Posted by blobby

Never said that at all. I just said what zamzam stated was complete rubbish and Interpol have nothing to do with any process. Only so much paypal can check. That is completely irrelevant to what has been said and payapl have been able to do this for years.




Not on stealth accounts, unless you are a total idiot. Or using for a very rare specific use.




They have always done this. Done these checks and had the potential to use Credit agencies. Nothing has changed. That isn't me burying my head in the sand. That is me reading this forum for enough years to realise that people panic and scaremonger at the slightest little bit of hearsay without any evidence to back it up.

I think you've made your point with this now and it's getting boring with all your nit picking. Lets just drop it now otherwise this will go on ad nauseam.

[blobby]

Originally Posted by James Brown

I think you've made your point with this now and it's getting boring with all your nit picking. Lets just drop it now otherwise this will go on ad nauseam.

I couldn't give a monkeys if you find it boring.

It is important forum members can see the difference between FACT and made up BS which is completely false and pure scaremongering.

If you call that nit picking then so be it.

[JHerald]

Originally Posted by blobby

I couldn't give a monkeys if you find it boring.

It is important forum members can see the difference between FACT and made up BS which is completely false and pure scaremongering.

If you call that nit picking then so be it.

I have spoken with PayPal on the phone about the situation and were also able to query the disputed fact that has been raised here.

Firstly, the PayPal representative mentioned that re-opening an account is an existing (not new) measure taken when there is sufficient evidence that PayPal's exposure to issues with buyers or law enforcement are risk assessed to be highly likely.

She said that all previously removed funding sources were restored, in order to ensure that the account's integrity is maintained in case of a situation listed above.

In terms of data retention, PayPal have confirmed that exact processes are not available publicly, but in accordance with the User Agreement, do reserve the right to retain transaction data, finance data and all other data needed to ensure the safe and secure use of the PayPal service for all customers.

Despite originally adding one step to complete to have the limitation reviewed, the representative performed their review over the phone and after the call ended, the account was permanently limited and will remain so with all funding sources attached without expiration, in accordance with the User Agreement.

The exact reason for the limitation was use of the PayPal service that is considered to be high-risk, reckless or otherwise disruptive to the smooth running of the PayPal service. This limitation cannot be appealed nor can the account be closed again - any funds held (which there isn't) would not be released after 180 days without verified Photo ID and proof of address.

Quite a harsh stance - but PayPal are extremely touchy when it comes to using their service to sell account information (not cracked, new and with the customer's details).

In terms of documentation, they did not confirm nor deny that a database updated by the government was used. They said that they use a variety of resources to ensure the validation and approval of documentation for PayPal "Know Your Customer" requirements. They could not release any further information publicly.

I'll have to move on from scratch now.

[zamzam]

Originally Posted by spindoctor

Hahahaha interpol? No such database!

Who ever came up with that idea owes me a new keyboard, i just spat my drink i'm laughing that much. Flip sake... can't make this up!

Let's get something straight here, why would someone BS something a PayPal representative has confirmed unless there nuts? In elaboration to what was mentioned earlier I rang PayPal in regards to a limited account based on docs failing. They wouldn't disclose the exact reason to why this happened, but the account specialist went on to say they have a variety of third party softwares used to confirm authenticity of the docs supplied. One of which is the Interpol database (they cross reference document numbers), not that this happens on all docs but is our last resort...

[zamzam]

Originally Posted by blobby

B- You are talking absolute BS. Paypal do not have access to any such data base. It is bad enough you were told this BS, even worse you believe it.

Again get your facts straight... who mentioned anything about believing this. That's the last thing you want in your back Pockit. This was only mentioned to get opinions of users who think they know how PP works. Obviously your opinion was based purely on speculation so why don't we just leave it at that shall we?

[blobby]

Originally Posted by zamzam

Again get your facts straight... who mentioned anything about believing this. That's the last thing you want in your back Pockit. This was only mentioned to get opinions of users who think they know how PP works. Obviously your opinion was based purely on speculation so why don't we just leave it at that shall we?

NO we won't.

You are full of Sh*t, a gullible fool who knows SFA if you think paypal use an 'interpol' database, that doesn't even exit.

Now jog on mug.

[blobby]

Originally Posted by zamzam

Let's get something straight here, why would someone BS something a PayPal representative has confirmed unless there nuts? In elaboration to what was mentioned earlier I rang PayPal in regards to a limited account based on docs failing. They wouldn't disclose the exact reason to why this happened, but the account specialist went on to say they have a variety of third party softwares used to confirm authenticity of the docs supplied. One of which is the Interpol database (they cross reference document numbers), not that this happens on all docs but is our last resort...

If a paypal rep has 'confirmed it' they are full of sh*t.

If you believe it, you are a ret*rd.
.
If you then speculate about it on a forum with no basis when people have their livings at stake? Well, simply....see you next Tuesday