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  #45  
Old 08-31-2009
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What she said.

Somewhat more technical side that does outline alternate options for creation. The options aren't very strong on their face.

You can get an EIN without creating an LLC, but the EIN without LLC won't go far with PP. DBA alone doesn't help much at all for stealth if you use it all by itself.

I would say, if you are in a pinch, you could apply for EIN and use it with PP early on while you are reviewing the paperwork PENDING your incorporation. Treasury allows you to get the EIN first and put an LLC name on the EIN, but you will have to complete the LLC relatively soon if you choose to go that route. I don't think PP is as patient as the Treasury is. They will probably want to see LLC proofs fairly soon.

If you don't intend to complete the LLC, don't get the EIN in the name of an LLC. Choose a different option for your EIN. Understand, though, that other EINs don't carry much weight with PP. They will want to see other things to go with that.
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  #46  
Old 08-31-2009
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vic how often do you go throught this whole process, tell me not for every new stealth account.??
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  #47  
Old 08-31-2009
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hehe. Can not answer for vic but think of an LLC as an umbrella: an umbrella has many spokes , therefore there are options
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  #48  
Old 08-31-2009
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Not each and every one. I have a vivid imagination. I can see how things possibly overlap conveniently. I have several LLCs, to soak up excess -er- stuff. Prefer not to elaborate here, though.

Suffice it to say I create several per year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SECondplaygames View Post
vic how often do you go throught this whole process, tell me not for every new stealth account.??
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisK View Post
Hello everyone, if you've ever seen my posts my biggest issue was always turning a stealth account into a legit business. Well with our new methods it's time to start doing that.

I have a UPS store box ready and I plan to register for my EIN and LLC shortly but I am little confused about the DBA.

Should I open an LLC under a company name and then assign a DBA to it and use the DBA name for Paypal/Ebay or would the correct thing to do be opening an LLC with a persons name and using that as the name for Paypal/Ebay? If it is the latter, what purpose does the DBA serve exactly? Is the DBA required for opening a bank account/debit card usable with Paypal/Ebay?


Thank you in advance for any help!

-Francis

This exact question was never answered in this thread. Can someone please explain? Do i open a LLC under a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ name, or do I open it under a business name? Im just confused about this since I dont know if I need both, or should I get both, or just use a name for everything. Wouldnt it seem kind of a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ business if teh business is a normal name??
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2009
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It's been answered. You just have to wrap your head around it.

Depending on the purpose for your LLC, you have choices to make. The exact implementation and appropriate setup will depend on your purpose.

If you want to be legit, don't use a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ name.

As far as businesses that use normal names:

Jos. A. Banks, John DeLorean, Luis Vuitton, Gianni Versace, Gloria Vanderbilt, Max Factor, Calvin Klein, Ed Hardy.... 1000's more.
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicvelcro View Post
It's been answered. You just have to wrap your head around it.

Depending on the purpose for your LLC, you have choices to make. The exact implementation and appropriate setup will depend on your purpose.

If you want to be legit, don't use a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ name.

As far as businesses that use normal names:

Jos. A. Banks, John DeLorean, Luis Vuitton, Gianni Versace, Gloria Vanderbilt, Max Factor, Calvin Klein, Ed Hardy.... 1000's more.

Ok i see, so to avoid confusion: best to use a business name that is actually a name... Makes sense, this way you kill two birds with one stone....


anyways, when i call paypal, they ask me for my first and last name, in this case, what do i say? Gloria Vanderbilt?
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2009
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Question

Could I use Max Deal as my name and LLC? Sounds pretty cool but what if they think its ⊗⊗⊗⊗?
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2009
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Re #51 : I think that's already taken.

To use an example that has been running for this particular subject:

If your name is Roger Hammersmith, you could create a business named Roger Hammersmith LLC. After that is created, you can make a PP account for the business named Roger Hammersmith LLC and have the company contact HUMAN NAME indicating the manager whose name is Billy Fluffentoss. My name is NOT Roger Hammersmith, but I actually could create a business and name it Roger Hammersmith LLC and I could hire Cynthia Wettinkreemy to be my manager and have her name be the liason between Paypal and my business without them ever knowing who started the company or who the members are or knowing about me being the big cheese.

To make your life easy, just figure out what YOUR needs are, and charter your LLC based on THOSE needs. You don't have to understand the 984 other ways an LLC won't actually help you. Just focus on that which is relevent to your goals.

If you need to be Phoenix Omni Zenith Penultimate Lowriders of Impending Sadism LLC instead of Squeeky McWigglepuss INC, then forget about Squeeky.

If you charter your business as Max Deal LLC, then it IS real. That is assuming you will actually file your papers with the state and get your EIN. If you mean you are going to print your own non-genuine LLC papers - I strongly advise against it unless you want 5 years paid vacation in Club Fed. Do it real or leave it alone.

Last edited by Vicvelcro; 10-07-2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Too many typos.
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicvelcro View Post
Re #51 : I think that's already taken.

To use an example that has been running for this particular subject:

If your name is Roger Hammersmith, you could create a business named Roger Hammersmith LLC. After that is created, you can make a PP account for the business named Roger Hammersmith LLC and have the company contact HUMAN NAME indicating the manager whose name is Billy Fluffentoss. My name is NOT Roger Hammersmith, but I actually could create a business and name it Roger Hammersmith LLC and I could hire Cynthia Wettinkreemy to be my manager and have her name be the liason between Paypal and my business without them ever knowing who started the company or who the members are or knowing about me being the big cheese.

To make your life easy, just figure out what YOUR needs are, and charter your LLC based on THOSE needs. You don't have to understand the 984 other ways an LLC won't actually help you. Just focus on that which is relevent to your goals.

If you need to be Phoenix Omni Zenith Penultimate Lowriders of Impending Sadism LLC instead of Squeeky McWigglepuss INC, then forget about Squeeky.

If you charter your business as Max Deal LLC, then it IS real. That is assuming you will actually file your papers with the state and get your EIN. If you mean you are going to print your own non-genuine LLC papers - I strongly advise against it unless you want 5 years paid vacation in Club Fed. Do it real or leave it alone.

Thank you so much for your continued answers! Yes, I want to do this all legit with the government and get an actual LLC. But Im concerned with resolving the future limitations that I will have with paypal. In your example, what if they ask for Cynthia Wettinkreemy's drivers license? Or anyone else's drivers license or proof of existence? Will i need to photoshop? Since im trying to avoid having to do anything illegal...

Also, won't it just be easier to have the business name also be the individuals name that is currently using the paypal account for the business? Seems easier to me than having to create all these separate identities for paypal.

For my example, with Max Deal as my LLC and my actual name on paypal/owner of the company, I was planning on using that for pretty much everything. Meaning, opening credit cards, making the ebay account, paypal, paypal business name, all under Max Deal. Would that work? If max deal is taken I can come up with another similar name that both sounds like a company and also a name to avoid confusion...

Also: What can i expect my limitation requirements will be once I am verified business on paypal?

Pictures of products
Suppliers
Business Model
Employees(what if im the only employee and they ask for drivers license? aka: cant use my real one since im blocked from paypal)?
Anything else? Considereing I already gave them my EIN and took 2 of 3 required steps to complete verification...

Promise this is my last question if everything above is answered!! Thanks everyone!
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2009
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They won't ask for the contact person's DL. That person is just an employee, for all intents and purposes. Look at it this way: if you were to ask a Paypal employee for their personal info, they'd tell you to take a hike.

PP will only need the info for the LLC. Proof in the form of company documents, the EIN, and maybe a bank statement (probably not).

To more fully understand the privacy afforded by a legitimate LLC, find a book by JJ Luna titled How To Be Invisible. He's got a website, so Google can help you with that.

You are making the issue more complicated than it is or needs to be, when you refer to all the identities relating to Paypal. Paypal only needs the legal documents for the LLC. Nothing more. Don't view LLC from the perspective that it is a difficult thing. It was designed with the intent of legally being sneaky. The 'Old Boys' made provisions for it before America was ever colonized. The whole purpose of LLC is to insulate an individual from prying eyes and to insulate from financial liability. It's what is known as an 'Easy Out'.

Paypal never needs to know who the owner of the LLC is. In fact, an LLC is owned by the shareholders or the members collectively. In many cases, an LLC doesn't *have* an owner.

This topic was never meant to be a tutorial on LLC for beginners or to be an exhaustive reference. I posted it with the intent to steer people toward something they might not be aware of, so they could look into the specifics in a library or online.

I don't mind answering specific questions or clearing up a point of confusion. For more thorough consulting, I normally recommend people research, contact an attorney, or schedule time with a consultant. If you want to make a consulting appointment, send me an email <grin>.

If and when you verify everything LLC related - to Paypal - you will likely find that limitations are few and resolving problems is much faster. But that depends on how well you satisfy Paypal that you are a competent business.

Again, Paypal can't require a DL for an employee of the LLC. Employees are not legally responsible parties for the business that hired them (in general).

Not sure if that covered all of your questions. If not, please try to ask one or two per post, then ask one or two more *after* the previous questions are answered. It just gets too complicated when trying to follow one post that asks too many things too interwoven. Things get lost.

Really, if you can find that book by Luna, you'll be doing yourself a huge favor. It clears up a lot of things very nicely.
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2009
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Thank you. Will look the book up. That clears up the DL issue.

So what should my name on ebay be then ( the first and last name ) Ie. Roger Hammersmith?? Can I use my LLC? Also when I open up a paypal card, to further verify, I again use my LLC correct? On a previous post I read that to satisfy one of paypals requirements you could open up a credit/debit card with them. Just wondering if the LLC 'name' will work with paypal as well..

Also, paypal already has my cell number, BUT, i have a toll free number now, that redirects to my cell phone, is that enough for verification for the business or do they want a house/home number?

Last edited by d34l; 10-07-2009 at 02:20 AM.
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  #57  
Old 10-07-2009
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You're welcome.

The name for ebay and PP would be the business name. If you get the PP card, I suggest you get it issued with the name of the business imprinted on it, instead of a human name.

Example:
Name of business: Roger Hammersmith LLC
Creator of LLC: Billy Badasstical

Paypal login: rogerhammersmithllc@hotmail.com
Name on PP account (Premier or Business - not Individual): Roger Hammersmith LLC
Registered Contact: Betsy Rancidclam
Address: 123 Main Street, Suite PH2

It never says anything about Billy Badasstical. It never has your personal address or phone or anything else. Since Betsy Rancidclam is not a member or major shareholder, she never has to provide any of her info to PP. Hey, people get hired and fired, so next week Betsy Rancidclam might be replace by Susie Curdlesnatch. Since neither of those people has any legal responsibility for ownership or vested interest, PP would be breaking federal law if they required an SSN from either of them. The LLC has it's own EIN. That has been explained elsewhere in this thread or its sister thread. EIN is the only legal number for the LLC.

In regard to the phone number: If you wanted to resolve a business matter with Walmart, do you think you'd find the president's home phone number anywhere? Not likely. You'd have to call the office number during normal business hours. Conveniently enough, normal business hours for your LLC can be at a time of day when PP official business hours are over - thus they always get to talk to one of your dumb employees... It has psychological and social-engineering advantages.

Don't give them your cell or home number. Get a separate phone for that. MagicJack? Personally, I don't ever use a number that forwards to any of my personal phones. Up until recently, each LLC/PP had it's own TracFone. I still have all my previous TFs, but for new business, I use something else.

Go to dictionary.com and read the definition of 'corporation' or find the definition I already pasted in here somewhere. LLC is not like a mom-and-pop business. Mom-And-Pop outfits are property of the people who own it. LLC is its own legal entity. For practical purposes, it is a person unique and separate from any other entity. Read that book.
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  #58  
Old 10-07-2009
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I did a bit of research on TracFone. They seem like a good option, but too expensive for me, especially when I have that toll free number already.

It costs 9.99 for the first 30 minutes, plus the cheapest phone at 14.99. Then after 30 days, you have purchase another 9.99, and so on for each month. Seems really expensive to keep up a phone that I will not use, and only will use when I call paypal, which isnt even necessary to use that phone, or if and when they call me.


Is it possible to just use the toll free number I have? Or is there some possibility for them to trace the toll free number and link it to my cell phone number? Also when I call them, can I do *67 to remain anonymous or is it just safer to use another cell phone number or it doesnt matter??? Thanks!
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  #59  
Old 10-08-2009
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Keep in mind that when you buy a tracfone, it only costs you WHEN you use it or when you need to extend the expiration date.

I've had one sitting here with exactly 2 minutes on it forever. Still has 257 days before I need to worry about it again. As long as I don't need to call out from it or answer an incoming call, it costs me nothing. If PP calls it, I can answer and tell them my signal is bad and call back in an hour, then I buy minutes for it...

If you already have a toll-free and it isn't one of the ones that will be a problem, then use what you already have. One observation I have is that tracfone can go with me anywhere. Can your toll-free do that and would you benefit from mobility?

For me, tracfone was the perfect answer. The cost of adding the minutes I was using was negligible. Other FREE alternatives would have cost me more by decreasing my productivity. I've had a couple of these tracfones that have moved with me in 4 different states, but the number always stays the same and each one is separate. I got em color coded. I don't forward 95 free numbers into one phone and then wonder when the caller ID shows PP ringing me which 'person' I'm supposed to be pretending to be. If I pick up the green phone, I'm George. If I pick up the red phone, I'm Roy. That reduces the possibility of mistakes.

So $20 here and there and giving me my freedom is more useful to me than a free number that might cost me 5 blown PP accounts or tie me to one place when I need to get my derriere out the door and on the move.

Not preaching, just pointing something out that maybe hasn't crossed your mind.

Regarding the *67 thing: if you are dialing out of your phone into a toll free number (PP 888 XXX XXXX), they will see your number no matter what you do. If you call their non-toll-free number (402 935 2050 I think), you can use *67 and your number will be blocked.

When they call IN to your toll free number, they can't trace anything back to your actuall cell phone.

It is always best to call Paypal FROM the phone number they have registered to your account. That's another way that tracfones come in handy. If I call PP about my George account from my Roy phone, the jig is up. Color codes and separate phones are the perfect solution to that problem.

Main thing is keep yourself well organized, don't get your infos crossed-up, and try to choose tools that give you the most flexibility. The cost of a good tool will more than pay for itself. The cost of a bad tool (usually free) can kill you.
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  #60  
Old 10-13-2009
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Ok, So i am in some type of dilemma. I want to make a LLC, but I dont know what name to use.

I want to use my website name, but I already used D34L.com for the business name on the account that I got limited with and closed down.

So would it be safe If i opened another one called D34L.com LLC or is that way to obvious? I would ofcourse go through all the actual LLC paper work and make it official so if they do ask me for papers I can provide it. Please let me know if this will work, or if you think it might be to obvious and I would be linked. Thanks
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  #61  
Old 10-13-2009
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Also my ebay user id was d34l_com, if I made a new one under d34l-com this would be wayyy to obvious right? Or would it not matter since there is no way they can link me if I use an llc and have a different postal address and everything right? I mean theres nothing that says you can have similar names but Im just making sure since I dont want it to be magiclly closed down and nothing for me to do for the 5th time again...... :(
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  #62  
Old 10-13-2009
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If I cant use d34l-com any suggestions on what to use that still shows my website and gives it more hits???
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  #63  
Old 10-13-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicvelcro View Post
Well, I've run a few B&M's in my day and I like my privacy. There's a book I read a number of years ago which details MUCH. I'll PM you a link, if you want it.
Vic,

I'd like a link to that book, if possible.

Thanks,
Sevn
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  #64  
Old 10-13-2009
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SevnSins: Just go here:

How to be invisible: the essential ... - Google Books
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  #65  
Old 10-13-2009
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Just use some generic name like "Universal Exports" or "Smith and Sons".
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Old 10-14-2009
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Also, Vic if I send in proof of my LLC, you said to do what?

1.) Use paint(program) and mark my original adresse in black marker and then send it?

or

2.) Use photoshop and change it to the addresse I use when I signed up?

Please let me know. Thanks!
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