Paypal want photo ID ?

[chango]

So I've been using my paypal over the last 8 months bit here a bit there some selling some buying, I use a paid for VPN and my own private IP on a VM. I sold some stuff which came to near a grand and now they are asking for a photo ID and proof of address ??? I'd called them twice and both times they said it would be lifted in 12 hours or less , then when I went to buy something on eBay it wouldn't go through so then I called them and that's what they said, you need to send a photo ID and proof of address. I even have a legit bank account attached ..!
So I dont know what to do now I'm screwed..

However I will write to paypal and demand my money or I intend to submit everyone who has bought an item off me that paypal is holding my money for to the police and say it is stolen goods and that they remain mine until I'm paid. **** the consequences !!

So what if I send in my actual photo ID with my real name on and proof of my real address ? I used my office address which is real. I haven't stolen anything, the only thing different is the name on the account ? Ok they might close the account but surely they cant keep the money ?

[wired]

Eu Money Laundering Limit possibly. Happens to all accounts at a certain point, or just a standard risk limitation.

We are not allowed to advise you on here about this, but you just need to supply them what they require.

[SpaceZ]

When you registered your PayPal account, you agreed to their User Agreement which states that it is a violation if you;

9.1: Use an anonymising proxy;

So since you have breached the agreement, they have now put your account on hold for a manual review and thus require you to submit documents to establish your identity and location.

The User Agreement also states they can also block your account if you;

9.1, (h): Refuse to cooperate in an investigation or provide confirmation of your identity or any Information you provide to us;

There is really no simpler way to explain this; you have broken their rules and thus they require you to prove who you are. The law is on their side, not yours. So there is no point in taking this matter to the police as you will just make yourself look foolish and disingenuous.

Moving on to your questions. If you upload your real photo ID and documents, it will result in an instant suspension which will be indefinite and non-appealable. Also they will then have your real identity so any future accounts opened with those documents will also be subsequently banned.

This should give you all the answers you need.

[chango]

Originally Posted by SpaceZ

When you registered your PayPal account, you agreed to their User Agreement which states that it is a violation if you;

9.1: Use an anonymising proxy;

So since you have breached the agreement, they have now put your account on hold for a manual review and thus require you to submit documents to establish your identity and location.

The User Agreement also states they can also block your account if you;

9.1, (h): Refuse to cooperate in an investigation or provide confirmation of your identity or any Information you provide to us;

There is really no simpler way to explain this; you have broken their rules and thus they require you to prove who you are. The law is on their side, not yours. So there is no point in taking this matter to the police as you will just make yourself look foolish and disingenuous.

Moving on to your questions. If you upload your real photo ID and documents, it will result in an instant suspension which will be indefinite and non-appealable. Also they will then have your real identity so any future accounts opened with those documents will also be subsequently banned.

This should give you all the answers you need.

Thanks for the reply, but the goods remain mine until they are paid for by law ? So I'll write to all the people who have my goods and I will ask for them back. If they don't return them , then I will report them stolen , just like I have done in the past with goods that where not paid for through my business. may not get my money back but I will kick up a **** storm , as any judge in the land will agree, the money does not belong to PayPal. The simple fact is they have no right to have possession of it. The next step will be small claims court, and let a judge decide who the money belongs to. I'm semi retired and a fairly decent income, I'll make it my new hobby to drag them through the courts.

[cRaZyzMaN]

@chango keep us posted

[chango]

@cRaZyzMaN oh I will, BTW my job is in viral marketing, and if I'm being honest I'm quite good at it, well my customers seen to think so.
If nothing else I want the judge to make clear,
A) who the goods I sold belong to?
B) Who the money in that PayPal account belongs to?
That's all.

[chango]

9.1: Use an anonymising proxy; I will argue that this common business practice when your business needs to use encrypted data under the Data Security Act.
I will also argue that anyone using PayPal from their place of work, where NAT is used through a proxy server (very common) or VPN to company VPN server is also using anonymising software.

9.1, (h): Refuse to cooperate in an investigation or provide confirmation of your identity or any Information you provide to us;
I did not refuse and supplied the relevant documents.


1. When you can make a statutory demand

You can make a statutory demand to ask for payment of a debt from an individual or company.

Anyone who’s owed money (the ‘creditor’) can make a statutory demand. You don’t need a lawyer.

If the debt’s over 6 years old, you can’t usually make a statutory demand. You can get legal advice instead.

There may be faster ways of getting smaller debts paid than making a statutory demand.

When the individual or company that owes you money (the ‘debtor’) receives a statutory demand, they have 21 days to either:

pay the debt
reach an agreement to pay

You can apply to bankrupt your debtor or close (‘wind up’) their company if they don’t respond to the statutory demand within 21 days.

Also

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...April_2017.pdf

If under £1k .. lots of stuff to try I think ?

[blobby]

Originally Posted by chango

You can apply to bankrupt your debtor or close (‘wind up’) their company if they don’t respond to the statutory demand within 21 days.

Also

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...April_2017.pdf

If under £1k .. lots of stuff to try I think ?

Not strictly true.

The debt has to be a minimum amount before you can apply for bankruptcy.

Then it costs around a grand to even file a petition for Bankruptcy.

[chango]

Originally Posted by blobby

Not strictly true.

The debt has to be a minimum amount before you can apply for bankruptcy.

Then it costs around a grand to even file a petition for Bankruptcy.

True, but the court will see this as making all possible efforts to resolve the issue amicably. As I recall, from a previous claim by a friends company, the Judge has the option to review the claim and grant dispensation if the defendant (PayPal) has not made all reasonable effort to settle. In fact this case is similar to my friends where a third party broker held the money in lieu of delivery of goods. He won I do know that, and I think it was simply the fact the goods still remained is.

BTW I'm not going to go for PayPal, I'm going to do this for everyone who I sold goods to on eBay and who I have not received payment from.

[blobby]

Originally Posted by chango

True, but the court will see this as making all possible efforts to resolve the issue amicably. As I recall, from a previous claim by a friends company, the Judge has the option to review the claim and grant dispensation if the defendant (PayPal) has not made all reasonable effort to settle. In fact this case is similar to my friends where a third party broker held the money in lieu of delivery of goods. He won I do know that, and I think it was simply the fact the goods still remained is.

BTW I'm not going to go for PayPal, I'm going to do this for everyone who I sold goods to on eBay and who I have not received payment from.

One huge problem would be if people, whether private or business, start issuing counter claims against you. I don't know how many separate transactions your situation covers, but potentially that could be a hell of a lot of court costs and fees you may need to cover.

It maybe be a whole lot easier just to bite your tongue and wait the 180 days.

[SpaceZ]

To Chango,

I understand what you are saying but the problem is that the law is still on their side.

The fact of the matter is that you breached their contract, and unless you can get a formal exemption or approval of concession by the upper management in PayPal, they will simply argue that they have the right, as per their User Agreement, to block your account and withhold your funds for a maximum of 180 days.

Still, though. I hope you win the court case.

[chango]

Originally Posted by SpaceZ

To Chango,

I understand what you are saying but the problem is that the law is still on their side.

The fact of the matter is that you breached their contract, and unless you can get a formal exemption or approval of concession by the upper management in PayPal, they will simply argue that they have the right, as per their User Agreement, to block your account and withhold your funds for a maximum of 180 days.

Still, though. I hope you win the court case.

Hi SpaceZ, I know your only paying devil's advocate, that's exactly what i need , so thanks for the reply's.

This is the simple version my friend just emailed me :

According to FSA,
A financial organisation not governed under the Banking Act 2009,
which apparently PayPal are not a bank.
Can only withhold money, or goods (bonds etc) if they believe the money is / or intended for criminal activity's. And that they must submit to the Police all evidence within 21 days. Or apply for a Judicial review to present the evidence.
There are other circumstances involving mortgages etc where they hold money pending finalisation of contracts.. but that's not what I'm talking in this case.about.

[chango]

Originally Posted by blobby

One huge problem would be if people, whether private or business, start issuing counter claims against you. I don't know how many separate transactions your situation covers, but potentially that could be a hell of a lot of court costs and fees you may need to cover.

It maybe be a whole lot easier just to bite your tongue and wait the 180 days.

Yeah but here's the kicker.. they did not pay me, they paid PayPal.
The only counter claim they could make is that they paid for the goods, but they would have to prove they paid me.
All the goods where either tracked and Signed or Signed for. All the buyers so far have baring 2 have given me positive feedback. So they cant dispute they received the goods, and they cant prove they paid "me" for them either.

It maybe be a whole lot easier just to bite your tongue and wait the 180 days

What if after 180 days they decide not to pay me?

[cRaZyzMaN]

6 months is tons of time to wait

[oompaloompa]

people did pay you, they do not have the money, it went to paypal. The dispute is between you and paypal, not buyers, would have thought that was completely obvious.

ID needs to be in registration details. You can wait and not give ID, but they have been known not to pay if you do not provide. The kicker, as you put it, is that they can also choose to reject any ID you do send, and that is also a reason for not paying out. Generally though forumers have been paid out after 180, a few have not though....

[James Brown]

As paypal don't seem to be regulated by anyone they can pretty much make up rules to suit themselves. At end of day unless you provide what they are asking for its unlikely they will release money - especially if original id was rejected for any reason. We all know how frustrating this situation can be as most of us have already been there.

[chango]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

people did pay you, they do not have the money, it went to paypal. The dispute is between you and paypal, not buyers, would have thought that was completely obvious.

Why is that obvious ? If you went to an auction, and the goods you sold where paid to the auction house, then they refused to pay you, would you just walk away ? If you see the buyers loading the goods into their car would you not go over and attempt to get your goods back? Explain the situation and advise them to get their money back from the auction house.
The buyer does not own the property until the transaction is completed with the owner.. not the seller. The auction house does not own your property they are simply selling it on your behalf.
People have this illusion that somehow the dispute is between you and the intermediary, that's not true. The goods remain your property until the transaction is satisfied.

And if you satisfy some simple rules you have the law on your side :
Did you sell the goods/services in good faith?
Did you mislead the buyer about the nature of the goods ?
Do the goods belong to you?

I can answer yes to all of the above.

The same rules apply to the most obvious cases , read the T'C's of any car fiance document.

If the financier fails to pay the owner of the vehicle (seller) the full agreed amount then the owner (seller) has the right to appropriate any goods stated under the agreement and apply to the small claims court for any expenses occurred.

Yes i understand that some on the forums just keep their fingers crossed , because they used false I.D's to obtain false bank accounts, and submitted false I.D's and paperwork to the banks and PayPal. Granted that's the risk you take.

But in my case , other than the fact i used my First and Middle name and accidentally missed off my last name , I have done nothing wrong. The D.O.B is correct , the phone number is correct the address is correct the bank account is in my name.

[wired]

Originally Posted by chango

Why is that obvious ? If you went to an auction, and the goods you sold where paid to the auction house, then they refused to pay you, would you just walk away ? If you see the buyers loading the goods into their car would you not go over and attempt to get your goods back? Explain the situation and advise them to get their money back from the auction house.
The buyer does not own the property until the transaction is completed with the owner.. not the seller. The auction house does not own your property they are simply selling it on your behalf.
People have this illusion that somehow the dispute is between you and the intermediary, that's not true. The goods remain your property until the transaction is satisfied.

And if you satisfy some simple rules you have the law on your side :
Did you sell the goods/services in good faith?
Did you mislead the buyer about the nature of the goods ?
Do the goods belong to you?

I can answer yes to all of the above.

The same rules apply to the most obvious cases , read the T'C's of any car fiance document.

If the financier fails to pay the owner of the vehicle (seller) the full agreed amount then the owner (seller) has the right to appropriate any goods stated under the agreement and apply to the small claims court for any expenses occurred.

Yes i understand that some on the forums just keep their fingers crossed , because they used false I.D's to obtain false bank accounts, and submitted false I.D's and paperwork to the banks and PayPal. Granted that's the risk you take.

But in my case , other than the fact i used my First and Middle name and accidentally missed off my last name , I have done nothing wrong. The D.O.B is correct , the phone number is correct the address is correct the bank account is in my name.

Lets see how it works out for you then, all this knowledge.

[oompaloompa]

You will demand your goods back from buyers, and then report them stolen? ? They do not fit the definition of stolen goods....

You are legally wrong about trying to get the goods back from the buyers, as you signed up to paypals T&C, the issue is now between you and paypal.

What you could try is to contact buyers, tell them you will refund them and could you be paid by a different method. You then contact paypal and ask for the transactions to be refunded. Most buyers would not touch it though, for so many reasons, including that the don't have to, so a discount would be the only sweetener, there are risks for you too, but it is up to you to consider...

[chango]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

You will demand your goods back from buyers, and then report them stolen? ? They do not fit the definition of stolen goods....

You are legally wrong about trying to get the goods back from the buyers, as you signed up to paypals T&C, the issue is now between you and paypal.

What you could try is to contact buyers, tell them you will refund them and could you be paid by a different method. You then contact paypal and ask for the transactions to be refunded. Most buyers would not touch it though, for so many reasons, including that the don't have to, so a discount would be the only sweetener, there are risks for you too, but it is up to you to consider...

If papal refunds the money for the goods who do the goods belong to ?

[oompaloompa]

You are placing emphasis on who goods belong to, but if paypal refunds and you have agreement in place to be paid by a different method, then the goods would still belong to the buyer, (mainly because they have the goods), in the reasonable interim time that it took to pay via a different method. Yes you could argue the goods belong to you at that interim point, but I would have thought legally there should be a reasonable time to pay up and then if that did not happen, it would be actionable....it would be more a question of breach of contract for failure to pay..... rather than who goods belong to....

[chango]

oompaloompa that's a good point. What I'm trying to establish is, do PayPal have a right by law to withhold the money they took for payment of goods that did not belong to them in the first place. I understand their term's and conditions in the matter , but they in no way supersede UK law. Just because it says breaking a condition will result in the funds being held for 180 days does not mean that they have the right to do so.
But what I'm really trying to establish is this: If I present my case in-front of a UK judge, who's side is British law on?