eBay Trademark violation query

[dreameR.78]

Hi there,

Let me explain my situation. About 2 months ago I started selling an item on eBay Australia (we run a UK based limited company). Within 1 day our listing was removed by eBay due to trademark violation. In the email eBay had supplied the contact details of the agent who was acting on behalf of the trademark owners.

I made contact with the agent who failed to respond to me emails. I then sent a strongly worded message threatingin legal action and within 24 hours I received an email from the agent requesting invoices to prove that our item is genuine. We went ahead and provided all the information the agents requested. True to their word, the agent emailed eBay and we managed to have the negative strikes removed from our account.

We then re-listed the item and everything was fine for a couple of weeks when we got another email from the agent. This time the agent advised that their lawyers had decided that we are no longer allowed to sell the item even if we have permission from a trademark owners in a different jurisdiction. The agent requested that we remove the listing before another strike is placed on our account.

We followed their request and removed the listing however there remained at least 5-10 listings adverting the same item from the UK also. We emailed the agent asking why these listings remain and their response was that they had requested these sellers to remove their listings but they wouldn't comply!

It seems odd that our listing was specifically targeted yet the other ones remain! So we made the mistake of re-listing the item (just like the rest of the UK based sellers) and we made sure that our listings complied with all eBay rules. Unfortunately we’ve now received 2 warnings and our eBay account has been limited for 7 days.

We have sent the agent another email similar to the previous one, we basically threatened legal action if they don't request eBay to remove the strikes from our account.

We are based in the UK and the trademark owners is a company based in New Zealand.

Can you please advise if this is worth pursuing? I believe it is as we have evidence to suggest that the trademark owners have misused the VERO programme by reporting our item as counterfeit yet I have email evidence from them confirming that our item is genuine?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Best wishes.

[GrannyT]

Without knowing the product it is difficult to offer specific advice.

There are two issues here. The law and Ebays rules.

If you are determined to stand your ground then you need to get your position and evidence in chronological order.

Is this item available in other retail outlets in the UK? (shops)
Have the vero owners complied with Ebays rules?
Is this something which is counterfeited?

If this item is on open distribution the Vero owners are on dodgy ground
If this item is on closed distribution and you are not part of that distribution trail you are on dodgy ground

Suggest you talk to a lawyer as we are not qualified here to give legal advice

[dreameR.78]

Originally Posted by GrannyT

Without knowing the product it is difficult to offer specific advice.

There are two issues here. The law and Ebays rules.

If you are determined to stand your ground then you need to get your position and evidence in chronological order.

Agreed.

Is this item available in other retail outlets in the UK? (shops)

Yes.

Have the vero owners complied with Ebays rules?

Hmmm.. good question. I don't think they have but let me explain:

The message I got from eBay started with something like this:

The rights owner or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the rights owner, *************, notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights.

Your item was removed because of a request we received from ***********, a member of our Verified Rights Owner Program (VeRO), asking us to remove the item for:

- Item(s) is a counterfeit product which infringes the trademark owner's rights.

In other words they are claiming that my item is not genuine but I have the email communication with the agent where basically he admits to the item being genuine.

The question is, can these people misuse VERO in such way to restrict the selling of the product? Even with my evidence, is it possible to report them to eBay for the misuse of this category of VERO?

Is this something which is counterfeited?

Noooooo... of course it isn't! We are a genuine Limited Company, we don't deal with ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and or counterfeit items.. NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL!!!!

If this item is on open distribution the Vero owners are on dodgy ground

Who decides that in the first place?

If this item is on closed distribution and you are not part of that distribution trail you are on dodgy ground

Once again, who decides such thing?!

Suggest you talk to a lawyer as we are not qualified here to give legal advice

No doubt I will but I just wanted to get the general opinion of some seasoned eBay members before I waste more time on this!

Thanks for your input.

[GrannyT]

If this is open sale and you can just go into a shop and buy it it MAY be worth going to do exactly that. Send Ebay the receipt and ask if it is OK to list it now. That may be what your competitors are doing.

[GrannyT]

If this item is something that has no history of being counterfeited then you are entitled to ask the agent how they can assert that your item violates their trademark.

Guessing at this from what you have said I would say your dispute is with the agent and not Ebay. Ebay offer the programme and the rights owners use it. The fact that you are a Limited Company, as you know, is neither here nor there.

It appears from your post that you believe the rights owners are abusing the position - if that is the case then your recourse is through the law against the agent.

I cannot begin to estimate how much money it would cost you to prosecute a case against a respondent in New Zealand. Do they not have UK representation?

[dreameR.78]

So it goes something like this:

1) Item gets removed
2) I contact the trademark owners
3) They ask for proof.
4) I provide proof.
5) Trademark owners accept proof and email eBay to remove trademark infringement from my account.
6) I re-list item and happily sell for 2 weeks.
7) Trademark owners request item to be removed.
8) I remove the item but 10 other listings remain
9) I re-list again.
10) I get targeted out of everyone else and the claim is counterfeit product.

Is it not then worth it to tell eBay that the same people who said my product is genuine are now saying it's not so I don't sell it?! Is this allowed even by eBay's standards?! Really?!

[GreenBean]

Look at this website, Tabberone. Great fabrics and collectibles..

The owner of that site is at the vanguard of counter claims against this behavior.

If you are happy with what you find from Tabbi's site proceed to file an MC019 counter claim. You allege you have emails to the validity of your items. Show those to ebay.

As GrannyT, this is complicated. It's not within the remit of the forum to give futher advice.
You can, of course, consider taking legal counsel yourself.

[GrannyT]

LOL

You are not playing in the real world here my friend - this is the La-La world of Ebay

Ring them or write to them and tell them. Are you a Powerseller? - if so get onto your account administrator and see what they can do

[GrannyT]

Fabulous link GB - I shall bookmark that

[GreenBean]

Also find the name of the legal representatives and get THEIR letter, on their letterhead, revoking your rights.


For the moment this appears to be coming from 'the agent'.

One might consider said agent may sell the product himslef (if one indulged in nasty thoughts ))

[GrannyT]

Which of course you never do:D

[GreenBean]

You know it !

[dreameR.78]

You can't file counter notice if it's trademark infringement

The important question is, based on the email communication between myself and the agent, is it worth telling this to eBay or is the vero member always right?!

[dreameR.78]

In other words, the agent tells eBay that my item is not genuine yet I have an email from the same agent saying my item is genuine. Will eBay take my side as the agent has in effect contradicted themselves?!

[GrannyT]

With Ebay no one is ever right. If you are going to communicate with Ebay you do not want to be dealing with a numpty - are you a powerseller?

[dreameR.78]

I was a power seller not been fir a year. I sell on eBay au but account registration is uk based.

Our turn over is 10000 quid a month and our sdr is almost perfect but I think we need to sell on eBay uk to gain ps status back?!

[GreenBean]

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/vero/97...hallenged.html

Since when is trademark not copyright removal?

your item was removed because it had a trademark and that appeared to contravene existing copyright....
File a counter claim and confuse ebay.
In the meantime get the name of the legal firm. Why would you take the word of an agent that reneges on what he says?

[dreameR.78]

I see your point but the agent is the only one reporting the items so they hold the key

Doubt if I get anywhere but I will try and convince eBay that the agent is abusing the vero program to stop the sale of the uk item